Another good reason why Bethesda doesn't have any right to the word Scrolls

[BloatedGuppy]

Yes i have heard of them, and played Daggerfall myself. But it was Morrowind that really catapulted the series into a mainstream RPG. I doubt most people that play the Morrowind games these days was even old enough to touch a keyboard in the mid-90's. Much less have a computer that could run the games.

And ask them about Daggerfall or Arena, and they will simply ask what are those? Sure Morrowind wasnt the "first", but it was the first of the series that made people actually take notice to the games. Symantics yes, but true none the less.

Tosh. I loved Daggerfall! Although even back then Bethesda couldn't ship a game without redefining hilarity with the number of bugs in it.

 

[The Funslinger]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably thing differently.

I knew he had a broad claim on it, and mostly I jumped into this thread to facepalm, and deliver my opinion unto the masses with my +5 ring of backhanding, but what was his specific claim, anyway?
This is the fifth Mojang/Bethesda thread I've seen in the past two days, not counting Escapist coverage.

I don't know the specifics, but it covers a lot of things.

For instance, if Bethesda wanted to release an Elder Scrolls movie, they wouldn't be able to call it that.

Bethesda are forced to protect the copyright or they lose it. If they permit Mojang the use of 'Scrolls', then he's completely able to name a game 'The Eldest Scrolls', or 'The Aged Scrolls'.

Legally, they have to protect that copyright or face a wave of 'The Elder Scrolls' clones.

Not saying Mojang would do that, but that's the general idea. It's not that Bethesda want to go to court. They have to.

(I'm not an expert on copyright law, so if any of what I said is wrong, feel free to correct me).

Thanks for explaining that.

Oh, and I can't stop staring at your Okami avatar. It's almost mesmerizing...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably thing differently.

I knew he had a broad claim on it, and mostly I jumped into this thread to facepalm, and deliver my opinion unto the masses with my +5 ring of backhanding, but what was his specific claim, anyway?
This is the fifth Mojang/Bethesda thread I've seen in the past two days, not counting Escapist coverage.

I don't know the specifics, but it covers a lot of things.

For instance, if Bethesda wanted to release an Elder Scrolls movie, they wouldn't be able to call it that.

Bethesda are forced to protect the copyright or they lose it. If they permit Mojang the use of 'Scrolls', then he's completely able to name a game 'The Eldest Scrolls', or 'The Aged Scrolls'.

Legally, they have to protect that copyright or face a wave of 'The Elder Scrolls' clones.

Not saying Mojang would do that, but that's the general idea. It's not that Bethesda want to go to court. They have to.

(I'm not an expert on copyright law, so if any of what I said is wrong, feel free to correct me).

Thanks for explaining that.

Oh, and I can't stop staring at your Okami avatar. It's almost mesmerizing...

No problem, you're certainly more willing to listen than the myriad of people claiming that 'OHMY GODZ! BETHESDA IS TEH EVILZ FOR FOLLOWING BASIC COPYRIGHT PROTECTION LAWZ!!!"

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

I was under the impression that they weren't claiming ownership of the word "scrolls", rather trying to STOP Notch from doing it.

I mean, if I'm wrong, just tell me. But that was my impression but several Escapist articles.

 

[The Funslinger]

snip

Well, I just get tired of every slightly harsh business move (especially in the gaming and tech industry being portrayed as the next Nazi uprising. (aaand, that's Godwin's Law.)

"Oh, they're going into litigation with a slightly smaller company! The bastards!"
"Oh, they've found a way to increase their profits! EEEEEVIIIIL!!!"

Especially that last one bugs me. Any time a company finds a way to increase profit, they get bitched out, and people buying the product get called sheep, and have their intelligence brought into question.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I was under the impression that they weren't claiming ownership of the word "scrolls", rather trying to STOP Notch from doing it.

I mean, if I'm wrong, just tell me. But that was my impression but several Escapist articles.

That's more or less my understanding of it as well. Notch didn't do his homework before applying for his trademark, and is now playing the "baffled victim" card.

 

[demoman_chaos]

-snippedy dippidy-

To continue your analogy of Star Wars, Bethesda suing over Scrolls is like George Lucas suing over Wars.

CAPTCHA:

MUST..... OBEY..... MASTER.... Scallysc

 

[Twilight_guy]

Technically no one should ever own a word so broad as "scrolls."

Anyways, i have heard people call them the Elder Scrolls games. If you get lazy, and leave off the adjective, like gamers are apt to do, then it just becomes scrolls. Suddenly people could get confused over elder scrolls 7 or scrolls the game from the guys who made Minecraft. I can see where it would be an issue. Honestly scrolls is a terrible name anyways I don't see why he doesn't use the chance to rename his game. Scrolls is a working title not a final title, its far to generic to be interesting. Maybe he's running on the idea that his legion of fans will sell the game for him but its still a terrible name even if it gets ignored.

 

[Torrasque]

Again, all the arm chair lawyers need to wait until REAL details of the lawsuit are actually made available to the public, and first arguments are heard.

People educate themselves before jumping to idiotic conclusions and making stupid threads about a topic they barely understand?

THE HELL YOU SAY.

lol, my first good chuckle of the day.
I am honestly curious if anyone that is not a Mojang fanboy, is angry at Bethesday and/or boycotting Skyrim.
I'd make a thread about it, but that is like making a thread called "So do you like vanilla ice cream, or are you really fucking stupid and dislike it?"

 

[MisterDyslexo]

Is there really a boycott going on as petty as this?

The company is throwing a hissy-fit over a title. Neither side is helping. And you're going to the hard-working publishers because of a few overzealous grammar-Nazis? Shouldn't, in theory, boycott the product because of unfair treatment towards the consumer? Bethesda has done nothing to insult me, to insult my intelligence, to give me unfair treatment when I use their service or buy their product. A few people, probably just a few rotten, greedy lawyers, are having a pissing match claiming to defend their IP because a few guys who didn't know what they were getting into just want to make their game. Its as childish as these flame-war threads about the issue.

How about you maybe boycott games that blatantly copy-paste previous installments and rip-off every last aspect of a different successful? You know, the games that slap us in the face because they're treating us like stupid children and that they should be rewarded for regurgitating the same crap over and over. Shouldn't those games be in peoples' sights?

Here's a blog post regarding the lawsuit worth reading for all the boycott crusaders:

http://howtonotsuckatgamedesign.com/?p=3327

Not that anyone is likely to. God knows, reacting randomly and stupidly is so much more visceral and fun than reading things.

Indeed. Very helpful, thank you.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

So many people dont understand this at all. I see tons of these "why are Bethesda doing this?" threads or people presuming they WANT to do this. The escapist podcast addressed this perfectly.

They most likely have to. Due to the US's silly IP laws, this is basically Bethesda saying, we are actively pursuing this IP name and using it. Because if they did nothing, another company could legitimately turn up, make an "Older Scrolls" game, and say simply "You didn't actively protect your brand for 'scrolls' and this isnt very different'

If you seriously believe anyone at Bethesda except the lawyers actually believes people will get these names will get confused, then well..you are confused.

 

[Bluntman1138]

-snippedy dippidy-

To continue your analogy of Star Wars, Bethesda suing over Scrolls is like George Lucas suing over Wars.

This is where you are wrong. Lucas owns copyrights and trademarks to Star Wars, Bethesda does not own a copyright on Elder Scrolls.

If LA didnt own a copyrights to Star Wars, then if someone copyrighted Stellar Wars (Sci-fi themed movies, books, and games) LA would not only be able to not make anything with the name Star Wars (due to trademark and copyright simularities) but would have to give money to the TM holders for things sold still with the name Star Wars atached to it.

BUT, since Lucas owns a copyright and trademark on "Star Wars" (Sci-fi based movies and literature) How many Sci-fi IP's has the words "Wars" in them? Few to none, and those that do have to walk a fine line.

But with Majong, they are creating a Fantasy based game (Just as The Elder Scrolls are) and trying to trademark "Scrolls" Thus giving them the edge on ANYTHING, Fantasy game based, to the word "Scrolls" in it.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Besides the fact that it's a pretty common word... especially for particular genres,

nobody associates it with them anyway.

I don't think I know anyone who calls Elder Scrolls games "Elder Scrolls..."

Whenever I hear someone talking about an Elder Scrolls game they tend to call the game Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. I don't get why they're so protective of a word that they barely use.

You are confusing something. It was not Bethesda who wanted to own "Scrolls", it was Mojang who wanted to trademark "Scrolls" in every form of electronic media, TV and radio, merchandise and everything. Since it would mean that "The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim" would be a trademark violation it is natural for Bethesda to try and protect their franchise.

Hey, lets compare the trademarks:

The Elder Scrolls: "Pre-recorded CD's and DVD's featuring fantasy games."

Scrolls: "Computer games; video games; computer software; computer and video games software; computer software downloaded or downloadable; computer software publications downloaded; interactive entertainment software; data recorded electronically from the Internet; data recorded in machine readable form from the Internet; discs, tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs and other magnetic, electronic or optical media, all bearing computer games software or video games; electronic amusement apparatus for use with television receivers; electronic games apparatus; home video game machines."

And this is ONLY the part about games. So yes, it is clearly Bethesda who wants to own "Scrolls"...

And before some smartass is going to say "but they already wanted to pass on the trademark *durr*":
Yes. Mojang / Notch did say that. These are the people who only said that the lawsuits concerned their game "Scrolls" (misleading the public) and made stupid jokes about a serious matter (challenge to Quake match). I don't give a fuck anymore about what Mojang or Notch are saying. For me they are not telling the whole story -> they lie.

And I would say that Bethesda should give up on the word scrolls because it isn't catching on.
However, there is a difference between a product called Scrolls and a product called The Elder Scrolls, so there's no legal threat of Moj preventing Bethesda from using their title... especially since it's a pre-existing series.
If that's the excuse they've been using, Bethesda's lawyers must be even more retarded than their testers.

 

[Laser Priest]

I love how a lot of people think Bethesda are sueing Mojang for no other reason than greed.

If you saw what Notch wanted to cover with his copyright of 'Scrolls', then people would probably think differently.

But we're not allowed to bring facts or logic into an argument on the internet. That would be ridiculous.

 

[orangeban]

My major issue is that they can't claim a word, sort of the point of language is that anyone can use it.

 

[Skoldpadda]

I love this "it's the lawyers!"-crap.

Yeah, it's just them and totally not those soulless, talentless cunts over at Bethesda, sueing over a perfectly common word. Poor Bethesda, desperately trying to stop this madness, like a little innocent kitten trying to stop a landslide.

I dislike lawyers as much as the next sane man, but for god's sake you goddamn fanboys, it's Bethesda sueing over the word "scrolls".

You know, kinda like how guns don't kill people, but people do?

 

[Uber Evil]

From here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113450-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No] I'm now not sure why Bethy is still suing. They haven't trademarked Scrolls, and Notch won't, and the brand confusion thing seems stupid, so I am now confused.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

My major issue is that they can't claim a word, sort of the point of language is that anyone can use it.

I love this "it's the lawyers!"-crap.

Yeah, it's just them and totally not those soulless, talentless cunts over at Bethesda, sueing over a perfectly common word. Poor Bethesda, desperately trying to stop this madness, like a little innocent kitten trying to stop a landslide.

I dislike lawyers as much as the next sane man, but for god's sake you goddamn fanboys, it's Bethesda sueing over the word "scrolls".

You know, kinda like how guns don't kill people, but people do?

U.S. copyright laws. Look them up before you start claiming Bethesda are in the wrong.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

I'm beginning to think that most people defending Mojang only envy the graphics engine and the gameplay value of the upcoming SKYRIM.
Oh on a side note:
You know what's funny? Notch announced their Minecraft Update at 11.11.11 with the subtitle: "Us too" or something. He stated that on his blog and I reread it here...

=>

Spoiler

[link]http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/04/08/minecraft-to-be-released-on-111111-minecraft-boss-notch-announces-that-the-game-will-leave-beta-this-november-developers-to-continue-to-support-game-with-free-updates/[/link]

He even stated it's because of SKYRIM in his own f*cking blog.
What's that? Is that some show of respect? Does he want to get attention away from them or is he just provoking them deliberately?
I don't get it, I mean sure he can surely do it, no law against that, but it seems Bethesda could be even pissed about that and he is going to pay the price soon enough...



Anyway people, hearing all those unthoughtful and lacking comments against Bethesda I'm not going to support Mohjang one bit. Just look at the fanbase:
(Some of) the Mojang Community isn't really acting you know... serious... mature. You really want to be associtated with them? No thanks...

I rather stay on the nerdy yet composed and mature like Bethesda side until you others can unbury more serious and convincing arguments.
Good luck and try harder...

Sounds I found a mystic captache tome of wisdom named: Chronicle Stryina

 

[Zay-el]

And I would say that Bethesda should give up on the word scrolls because it isn't catching on.
However, there is a difference between a product called Scrolls and a product called The Elder Scrolls, so there's no legal threat of Moj preventing Bethesda from using their title... especially since it's a pre-existing series.
If that's the excuse they've been using, Bethesda's lawyers must be even more retarded than their testers.

Considering this is going to be the fifth game in the main series, I think it's caught on pretty well.

Also, pre-existing does not mean a thing. In this day and age, retroactive copyright claim is probably one of the less outrageous things you might hear happening.