Anti-heros: Are they all dicks?

[Axeli]

The definition of anti-hero is hard to make, the most basic of the anti hero is that in his environment, he is not liked, regardless what he does.

Uh, no. Anti-hero is defined by the writer's and the audience's views on the character, not by the in-universe reaction to the character.

 

[tjs09]

I dare you to call Stone Cold Steve Austin a dick.

Aha! I was having a hard time finding a relatable anti-hero...I forgot all about the Attitude Era
OT: Travis Touchdown from the No More Heroes series is pretty relatable

 

[Tiny116]

I thought the Idea of a anti-hero was that they were not supposed to be likeable?

 

[Spark Ignition]

An anti-hero to me means any protagonist or character who would be expected to show heroic traits but does not. This could be because he is a complete tool (see Alex Mercer), a coward (Rincewind from the Discworld series), overly cynical or selfish (Rick Deckard ala Blade Runner/DADOES) or a combination (Jim from Yahtzee's Mogworld). Now with the exception of Alex Mercer, these are all characters who I love, their flawedness making them so much more human and relatable than a cookie-cutter hero character, and often very funny. In fact in playing an rpg like Fallout 3 I usually try to emulate characters like these, as it leads to an interesting and immersive character development arc as they inevitably come to terms with the fact that they are essentially the hero and begin to act as such.

So yeah I guess I'm saying I love anti-heroes for being much richer and more interesting than their heroic counterparts.
Oh and first post! Hello Escapist forums!

 

[GuerrillaClock]

I dare you to call Stone Cold Steve Austin a dick.

I will do this when I get the chance.

Make sure you do, and make sure you sell the result as awesomely as this;
<youtube=WJqhGATgxek>

They just don't make 'em like they used to in the WWE anymore.

 

[Axeli]

I thought the Idea of a anti-hero was that they were not supposed to be likeable?

No, just that they aren't at least completely heroic or heroic in a traditional sense. That can of course make them unlikable too, but that isn't a requirement.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Han Solo is an Anti-hero. Therefore they aren't.

That is all

 

[HentMas]

The definition of anti-hero is hard to make, the most basic of the anti hero is that in his environment, he is not liked, regardless what he does.

Uh, no. Anti-hero is defined by the writer's and the audience's views on the character, not by the in-universe reaction to the character.

yeah, i always understood that it was something like "a character that does bad things to achieve a setting, but still the audience is roothing for him, because his actions are in par with a set of codes that rule his world"

or something like that, for example, The Godfather (here i go again) is a bad guy, he is a murderer, the boss of a crimminal organization and the most bad ass business man i have ever seen, and if you dont like him either you didn´t saw the movie or you saw it but didnt understand it, he would be called the "hero" of the movie, but he is no hero because he does things a hero would never do, still he is the one the movie focuses on, and people watching are interested in him achieving his goals.

Want to know why i insist so much in the godfather, he was the original anti-hero, before him all the movies were about "god guys doing god things" or stuff like that, this movie was the first that actually went out of the comfort zone and had the audienc rooting for a crimminal, the term "anti-hero" was coined specifically for him! (or so i have being brought to believe looking trough the internet i have not found a more succesfull example of a anti-hero)

 

[Madara XIII]

Surprised no one has mentioned Rorschach.

Best Anti-Hero EVAR!!!

 

[Leemaster777]

Is it just me or are most anti-heros dicks?

Aww, being a dick ain't so bad. See, there are three kinds of people, dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think we can all get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you've got your assholes...

 

[biGBum333]

An anti-hero to me means any protagonist or character who would be expected to show heroic traits but does not. This could be because he is a complete tool (see Alex Mercer), a coward (Rincewind from the Discworld series), overly cynical or selfish (Rick Deckard ala Blade Runner/DADOES) or a combination (Jim from Yahtzee's Mogworld). Now with the exception of Alex Mercer, these are all characters who I love, their flawedness making them so much more human and relatable than a cookie-cutter hero character, and often very funny. In fact in playing an rpg like Fallout 3 I usually try to emulate characters like these, as it leads to an interesting and immersive character development arc as they inevitably come to terms with the fact that they are essentially the hero and begin to act as such.

So yeah I guess I'm saying I love anti-heroes for being much richer and more interesting than their heroic counterparts.
Oh and first post! Hello Escapist forums!

good first post! and dont get me wrong there are a few anti heros ive come across that i like and they definitely make for more interesting characters. its just that a lot of them ive come across have or can be annoying and/ or unlikable

 

[Saltyk]

Captain Jack Sparrow.
Lelouch from Code Geass.
Altair from Assassin's Creed.

Those spring to mind as anti-heroes.

I wouldn't call Altair an anti-hero. Maybe at the beginning, but fairly early in when he discovers there is a conspiracy going on, he wants to right things. He seems a little less conceited about it. He's not saving the world for his own benefit, atfirst he's trying to prove himself and then he's trying to save the world

Yeah, but how does it go about it? Sneaking around killing people. He kills multiple people throughout the game. Yes, it is for the greater good, but you have to admit that is not a heroic trait.

A "True Hero" would confront them directly and try to convince them that what they are doing is wrong, only killing these people when given no choice. Smart? No. Altair's method is much better in real life, but we're talking about heroes and anti-heroes.

And as you mention, at first he had no real interest in the greater good. It was just to prove himself. A major point of anti-heroes is that they do heroic deeds by unheroic methods.

Someone pointed out Batman. I was also thinking of him, too. His intentions are good, but his methods are larger against the heroic nature. Sneaking around using fear and intimidation against his foes.

 

[brunothepig]

Well, as said, there isn't much of an option. The cowardly kind of anti-heroes wouldn't work in a game, because the character might be cowardly, but the player is still gonna run straight at the bad guys. It would seem weird. There is probably a few games with heroes that just don't want to be heroes anymore. I suppose Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction is kinda like this. But there is dicks with empathy. Your character in Saints Row 2 cares about his gang members, a few others. He gets outraged when certain people die. But he is totally, insanely, awesomely a dick. One of my favourite characters of any game. Not least of all because I could give him a British accent.

 

[Madara XIII]

I wouldn't say Alucard is....He's just a dark sadistic bastard who'll probably just annihalate you without so much as lifting a finger then probably laugh maniacally while doing it....you know, on second thought..

 

[astrav1]

Your two examples are villains.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Captain Jack Sparrow.
Lelouch from Code Geass.
Altair from Assassin's Creed.

Those spring to mind as anti-heroes.

I wouldn't call Altair an anti-hero. Maybe at the beginning, but fairly early in when he discovers there is a conspiracy going on, he wants to right things. He seems a little less conceited about it. He's not saving the world for his own benefit, atfirst he's trying to prove himself and then he's trying to save the world

Yeah, but how does it go about it? Sneaking around killing people. He kills multiple people throughout the game. Yes, it is for the greater good, but you have to admit that is not a heroic trait.

A "True Hero" would confront them directly and try to convince them that what they are doing is wrong, only killing these people when given no choice. Smart? No. Altair's method is much better in real life, but we're talking about heroes and anti-heroes.

And as you mention, at first he had no real interest in the greater good. It was just to prove himself. A major point of anti-heroes is that they do heroic deeds by unheroic methods.

Someone pointed out Batman. I was also thinking of him, too. His intentions are good, but his methods are larger against the heroic nature. Sneaking around using fear and intimidation against his foes.

But altair isan assassin, he can't simply walk up to the templar and speak to them. I suppose he does act "Immorally" by our regards, but don't forget this was set in a time where the templars were ebing right twats and oppressing the Kingdom in some religious holy war that God sent them on.

I don't know, I gueess in the end I've have to be on the fence for this one. Sure he's acting in what might be perceived as an unheroic fashion, but it's not like he has another way in which he can plausibly act

 

[Kenko]

Is it just me or are most anti-heros dicks?

The majority of them I come across (not just in video games but other mediums too) seem like conceited wankers, ie alex mercer from prototype and alex delarge from clockwork orange. I know those aren't the best examples but they were the first ones that came to mind lol. Are there any anti-heros out there that are likable or that one can still relate with? What's your opinion?

Discuss away...

If you understand the anti-hero and his motives then they are usually quite relatable. "Likable" is a bit silly as you arent supposed to like them, silly. Kain from the Blood Omen and Soul Reaver series = a great character alongside with Raziel.
But like someone else also mentioned your examples are two villains, badguys.

 

[Spark Ignition]

Well, as said, there isn't much of an option. The cowardly kind of anti-heroes wouldn't work in a game, because the character might be cowardly, but the player is still gonna run straight at the bad guys.

I would have to disagree. Thief much???

good first post! and dont get me wrong there are a few anti heros ive come across that i like and they definitely make for more interesting characters. its just that a lot of them ive come across have or can be annoying and/ or unlikable

Thank you! And yes I totally agree (I think we're all agreed on Alex Mercer here), I just wanted to address your question 'are they ALL dicks?'. But it's true that a lot of them are. A strange case though is Alex from Clockwork Orange, I just noticed you mentioned him. Obviously he is a horrific human being what with the rape, beating, murder and statutory rape of a minor(in the book) but Malcolm McDowell still manages to make him strangely charismatic... I would say that made him an anti-villain if that made any sense? As in rather than someone who does good but is a dick about it, he does vile things in a disturbingly charming way.

 

[EatPieYes]

I'd put Revolver Ocelot forward. And this is will make most sense for those have completed the series.

"What series?" one might ask. And for that one person I'll tell you it's Metal Gear. And yes, I agree with you. Saying anything more, though, might be called spoiling. So I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kais86]

Sousuke Sagara of Full Metal Panic! fame, is an anti hero, and he's not really a jerk, just socially inept, to the point where it's dangerous to leave the house with him.