Anti-SOPA sending the wrong message.

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Baldr

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Jan 6, 2010
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In my opinion this backlash against SOPA will actually make it very hard in the future to craft and execute good comprehensive Anti-Piracy legislation. I think the majority of the Anti-Piracy message has been lost and Anti-SOPA has become a rallying point for Pro-Piracy.

That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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I haven't yet heard anyone argue that piracy is good. What everyone is saying is sweeping legislation that hinders the freedoms and legitimate activities of everyone else is bad. Nobody would have a problem with SOPA if it weren't so vague and didn't effectively destroy so many perfectly legitimate media outlets.

Will this have an effect on how people view future piracy legislation, even if it doesn't in any way negatively impact the rest of the Internet? Most likely. But if that's truly the case, it won't have nearly as much widespread and organized opposition. It takes a very acute threat to get the Internet be this unified over something.
 

Wolfram23

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Mar 23, 2004
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I disagree. It's not at all a pro-piracy win. It's an anti-censorship win.

I don't think anybody is really saying SOPA is absolute crap, just that as it is now, it will not at all work. Well, I guess the people that benefit from pirating everything are probably saying "down with SOPA" lol, but the more reasonable people and legitimate websites/businesses that would be affected by SOPA are completely right in voicing their concerns for the legislation.
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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Baldr said:
In my opinion this backlash against SOPA will actually make it very hard in the future to craft and execute good comprehensive Anti-Piracy legislation. I think the majority of the Anti-Piracy message has been lost and Anti-SOPA has become a rallying point for Pro-Piracy.

That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
I'm sorry, but the approaches MADE towards piracy are backwards. They're doing it wrong and the internet rejects. When they figure out a GOOD way, we'll be happy.
 

Epona

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Jun 24, 2011
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Baldr said:
In my opinion this backlash against SOPA will actually make it very hard in the future to craft and execute good comprehensive Anti-Piracy legislation. I think the majority of the Anti-Piracy message has been lost and Anti-SOPA has become a rallying point for Pro-Piracy.

That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
Whatever, basing your opinion almost solely on your hatred for piracy blinds you. Here are some things that you have to accept before you can be more objective:

- Piracy isn't as bad as you have been led to believe. It's been here all along while the gaming industry has grown so big.

- Piracy isn't going anywhere. You can't stop it and abusive bills will only hurt the law abiding citizens and eventually game companies. The more abusive DRM gets, the more attractive pirated games become.

- You may not admit it but DRM has directly affected you more than piracy. Your enemy should not be the pirates. Don't blame pirates for DRM, that decision lies solely with publishers and so does the blame.

Fact is, piracy exists, it always has and it always will. Wasting time, money and the good will of your customers fighting it is detrimental.
 

ResonanceGames

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Feb 25, 2011
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Baldr said:
That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
This is just totally baseless. Everyone in congress agrees that there is workable anti-piracy legislation to be made, we just aren't there yet. Or anywhere close. There is no pro-pirate lobby in Washington, and there is no confusion that this bill was not rejected because it cracks down on pirates (allegedly, as though pirates wouldn't figure out a way around it).

The point that was driven home to the senators and congresspeople today was not that piracy is good, it was that attempting to push through bad legislation regulating something they don't understand is unacceptable.
 

Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
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Crono1973 said:
Baldr said:
In my opinion this backlash against SOPA will actually make it very hard in the future to craft and execute good comprehensive Anti-Piracy legislation. I think the majority of the Anti-Piracy message has been lost and Anti-SOPA has become a rallying point for Pro-Piracy.

That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
Whatever, basing your opinion almost solely on your hatred for piracy blinds you. Here are some things that you have to accept before you can be more objective:

- Piracy isn't as bad as you have been led to believe. It's been here all along while the gaming industry has grown so big.

- Piracy isn't going anywhere. You can't stop it and abusive bills will only hurt the law abiding citizens and eventually game companies. The more abusive DRM gets, the more attractive pirated games become.

- You may not admit it but DRM has directly affected you more than piracy. Your enemy should not be the pirates. Don't blame pirates for DRM, that decision lies solely with publishers and so does the blame.

Fact is, piracy exists, it always has and it always will. Wasting time, money and the good will of your customers fighting it is detrimental.
We don't have DRM on our games, I know the legal staff spends hours each day going after websites that post download links, only to have them reappear hours latter. More than 50% piracy rate is unacceptable. It amazes me the amount of ignorance and uncaring attitude some people have.
 

Epona

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Jun 24, 2011
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Baldr said:
Crono1973 said:
Baldr said:
In my opinion this backlash against SOPA will actually make it very hard in the future to craft and execute good comprehensive Anti-Piracy legislation. I think the majority of the Anti-Piracy message has been lost and Anti-SOPA has become a rallying point for Pro-Piracy.

That companies lost sight of the most important part of the legislation over the other faults of censorship to decry the bills. I think more damage has been done today then really understood. Do not get me wrong, I am not for full censorship or parts of SOPA. I just really hate seeing this as a major victory for Pro-Piracy.
Whatever, basing your opinion almost solely on your hatred for piracy blinds you. Here are some things that you have to accept before you can be more objective:

- Piracy isn't as bad as you have been led to believe. It's been here all along while the gaming industry has grown so big.

- Piracy isn't going anywhere. You can't stop it and abusive bills will only hurt the law abiding citizens and eventually game companies. The more abusive DRM gets, the more attractive pirated games become.

- You may not admit it but DRM has directly affected you more than piracy. Your enemy should not be the pirates. Don't blame pirates for DRM, that decision lies solely with publishers and so does the blame.

Fact is, piracy exists, it always has and it always will. Wasting time, money and the good will of your customers fighting it is detrimental.
We don't have DRM on our games, I know the legal staff spends hours each day going after websites that post download links, only to have them reappear hours latter. More than 50% piracy rate is unacceptable. It amazes me the amount of ignorance and uncaring attitude some people have.
The mindless anti-piracy attitude is the reason bills like this even get this far. Don't you see that. How many people believe that piracy is killing the industry all while reading about record profits year after year? It's this blindness that is hurting us.

I don't know who "We" is, nor do I care. I do know that piracy is a scapegoat for worse and worse DRM. DRM is a media companies wet dream, it allows them to control a product AFTER it is sold. Piracy is just the scapegoat to allow them to apply worse and worse DRM. The extreme anti-piracy attitude like what is seen here just encourages bills like SOPA.

So while I am not a pirate, I am also not stupid enough to believe that private companies should be given this kind of power (or the government for that matter). I won't let a misplaced hatred of piracy give shit like SOPA a pass.

50% piracy rate? You have heard that 97% of all statistics are made up, right?

Now I am done here because I don't feel like getting banned for not toeing the anti-piracy line.
 

XMark

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Jan 25, 2010
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Piracy is bad, and I've got no major issue with measures to actually stop piracy. But if those measures damage free speech and cripple the internet in the process, then it's not worth it.

If someone steals something and runs into a house, you don't carpet-bomb the neighborhood.
 

Kagim

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Aug 26, 2009
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Sopa is only bad because it is harming freedom of speech, something I take very seriously.

If the bill get redesigned to only target sites that exist for the primary purpose of copyright infringement like bullshit sites such as Pirates bay and iso hunt that exist for the primary purpose to make money off others then i will gladly support it. However in its current form it is more likely to harm innocent people exercising there freedom of speech or fair use.
 

Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
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It's biggest flaw to me was how it would disregarded the intention of the site in the first place. The type of loopholes that youtube or google could be shut down because they could end up showing something that broke copyright laws.

However there are sites out there like the Pirate Bay who's primary intentions are so obviously illegal that actually deserve those draconian rules since more lenient ones have been powerless to stop them.

But I very do understand where you're coming from. The next anti-piracy bill will be much easier for pro-pirating people to rile everyone up over even if it's much more fair and better than SOPA just because of how ridiculous the backlash was for SOPA.
 

UnusualStranger

Keep a hat handy
Jan 23, 2010
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Personally....I think this really deserves all the ire it has gotten. It has gotten to a point where we can't trust our leading officials to even combat supposed CRIMINALS, let alone protect the legal populace.

I am actually quite fine with there being no other legislation being passed or considered after this one. It is a obvious show of how even if a law is written to be complete trash, gives overarching powers to individuals who we know we can't trust them with, and trying to protect older business models and a downright BROKEN copyright regulatory system, it still somehow gets the support of ALL SIDES of the political party, and actually has a chance of PASSING.

With all this making a very good show of what is quite wrong in politics and business, I hope that this kills any type of legislative process like this for a long time.
 

Kagim

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Aug 26, 2009
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Crono1973 said:
Whatever, basing your opinion almost solely on your hatred for piracy blinds you. Here are some things that you have to accept before you can be more objective:

- Piracy isn't as bad as you have been led to believe. It's been here all along while the gaming industry has grown so big.
And now it's the thing that chokes the life out of it. Before when companies pulled stupid shit people gave them the finger and sought out other companies willing to make them a product to buy. Now people just download the games they normally would pass over, followed up with a good old pissing and moaning about how Activision isn't thanking them for doing so. Is it hurting the large companies, no, it is slowing down the path of change for the industry.

What this does is harm the marketplace, making big name companies sell more copies, while lesser known sources get lip service.

Take anime for example, how many people who watch it bother to check crunchy roll or funimation, two groups streaming full subtitled anime for free, before ripping it off? This is the problem. It;s not the industry leaders going broke. It's the fact it made people lazy. Rather then being willing to sacrifice a little to push the industry towards change, they are content siphoning off the work of the fat. Which does nothing to help anyone. Except themselves, which if they admitted you would find less people telling them to screw off.

- Piracy isn't going anywhere. You can't stop it and abusive bills will only hurt the law abiding citizens and eventually game companies. The more abusive DRM gets, the more attractive pirated games become.
DRM is nowhere near as bad as most people will try and get you to believe. I here it exaggerated just as much as the illegal downloading is a massive loss to companies. Oddly enough despite legally owning dozens of games i have never had to deal with bad drm.

As well the idea that "Well you can't stop it!" is silly. You can't stop shoplifting, but you don't actively encourage people to not care. More importantly downloading the games instead of outright saying fuck you to the problem only makes it worse. It's an escalating slap fight between two greedy entities. Nobody wins in the end.

Which is something you can't just hand wave away, ripping games is entirely out of greed. You never HAVE to play a game. You are never forced or given no options. Games are a want, not a need. They NEVER will be a need. I am sure many people will have plenty of similar insults for me saying this but you don't have to play Halo. Don't have to watch Transformers. Don't have to listen to Rihanna. You don't need any of that crap to be happy, healthy or safe. It's all out of personal greed and meaningless self-entitlement. This isn't the homeless stealing bread or trespassing to get out of the rain. This isn't someone stealing medication for their dying love.

This is people being greedy demanding a luxury then pissing and moaning it wasn't handed to them with a golden thank you.

Once again, if people just admitted they did it for personal gain, so many of your peers would not be able to give a single fuck.
- You may not admit it but DRM has directly affected you more than piracy. Your enemy should not be the pirates. Don't blame pirates for DRM, that decision lies solely with publishers and so does the blame.
Actually, it hasn't effected me because if I find a game with bad drm I do this crazy thing called NOT BUYING IT. Then it doesn't effect me. I take my money elsewhere and have nothing to do with the poor quality product. Like a responsible consumer.

It's not, amazingly enough, just the publishers fault. It's a reaction to people violating their rights. If you disagree with how they do business you walk away, tell them why, and find someone else to entertain you and form a consumer/service relationship with.

The consumer that ripped the company off in the first place deserves their share of the blame. Companies tried to ask politely for people to not rob them and the response was steal harder they won't fight back. People always forget that companies didn't one day start throwing drm because fuck you that's why. It's their reaction to people taking there product without permission. It's their reaction to having their rights as a company violated.

Downloading perpetuates this crap. It's snowballed as both groups continue this slap fight bullshit. Are their greedy publishers, i wouldn't bat an eyelash at the thought. However those that are ripping the product off torrent sites are just as greedy. You can live without video games, nobody forces you to rip them off. You make that decision, you make the choice to perpetuate this crap rather then just being willing to go without and support someone willing to work with you.

Fact is, piracy exists, it always has and it always will. Wasting time, money and the good will of your customers fighting it is detrimental.
Fact is, there are many companies waiting, salivating at the thought of all you disgruntled customers actually looking at them instead of pointing at them and telling Activision to be more like that. If people would actually go support all those companies they love to reference maybe the industry would grow and change, but as long as people insist on screaming how they have a right to play Modern Warfare for free instead of supporting indie publishers trying TO DO JUST THAT were going to have to wait decades for changes that should have taken a couple years.

There are more players in this mess then just million dollar publishers and You. You have to remember the thousands of indie artist, musicians, film makers, writers, developers. Not to mention companies like the mentioned Crunchy Roll and Funimation. The people who are ripping people are off are just making the problem worse, and slowing down change.

So no. He has no reason to blindly accept what you consider to be truths, because they are only true if you ignore everything that's actually important.
 

Vegosiux

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May 18, 2011
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*sigh*

Taking people's rights away because some of them abused said rights isn't the right way to go about it.

Kagim said:
You don't need any of that crap to be happy, healthy or safe.
Healthy or safe, true, but happines is kind of a subjective thing. Not going into an argument with you; my stance on piracy is "it's more like flu than cancer, so nuking it isn't a good plan". I'm not supportive or approving of it, but I'm strongly against massive retaliation. Just thought I'd point out that happiness thing tho.

On a completely seemingly random note, I think all that change you talked about could be brought about by simply banning all advertisement and PR stunts, and letting the products speak for themselves. Wishful thinking, I know, but I'm with Bill Hicks when it comes to people who work marketing and PR.