Eh, I imagine it's happening all the time, just doesn't always get much attention.undeadsuitor said:
Anti vaccination mom changes mind after kids get rotavirus
- Thread starter MatParker116
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I mean it's plausible enough I can see the point. To the average layman, how do we know whats actually in the shots they give us? This is very paranoid, but I think about the Nicole Kidman Body Snatchers remake where they infected people via flu shots.
Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but I wouldn't know. I think it's different when you have kids and you gotta weigh what the doctors tell you what you feel is safe or smart for your family. Yeah, I got the shots as a kid, but the doctors also had me doped up on Ritalin so you know... it's not as easy as always blindly listening to the doctor.
Obviously I'm not saying that's the case, but I wouldn't know. I think it's different when you have kids and you gotta weigh what the doctors tell you what you feel is safe or smart for your family. Yeah, I got the shots as a kid, but the doctors also had me doped up on Ritalin so you know... it's not as easy as always blindly listening to the doctor.
Well, there is a difference ofcourse in that the shots are your doctor merely complying with the vaccine program while the Ritalin was his own(all then not misguided) judgement. It can't get any more concrete than to immunize against infections like polio or tetanus or viruses that are potentially lethal in infants like the rotavirus mentioned in this thread. This isn't some make-belief lifestyle crap for which they prescribe Ritalin. These threats are real.DudeistBelieve said:
Yeah, I remember a quote I heard once on the Skeptic's Guide the Universe podcast. I'm seriously paraphrasing, and I don't recall the original source but "There's nothing like bleeding from the eyeballs to say 'Bring on the Western Medicine!'" In reference to people who espouse non-traditional medicine claims...until they get seriously ill, then it's off to the emergency room and the doctors! xDCap said:
The problem with the Ritalin (and any other drugs that affect the brain) is that they really don't ever work the same in 2 different people. An example is anti-depressants (I've more experience with these myself); giving the same drug to 3 people with the exact same symptoms will have Patient 1 feel perfectly normal, Patient 2 feel no different, and Patient 3 feel even worse. Vaccines, of course, work differently in everyone's bodies, but the effects are significantly more similar and more well understood.DudeistBelieve said:
The problem with this mindset, is "well then who ARE you going to listen to?" If not the group of individuals who have been trained, licensed, and certified to know at least some medical knowledge, then who? A playboy bunny who popped out a few kids and now considers herself the "Mommy Guru" and spouts "Mommy Wisdom" to justify whatever bullshit theory she has? Why is that the better idea?DudeistBelieve said:
Sure, doctors can be wrong about things, but to say "Hey, they've screwed up a few times, so I don't trust them", that's just crazy.
As to your "flu shots are made of what" soylent green-esque paranoid statement. Do you also think this way about...well everything else in the world? Because if so, I feel sorry for your life, constantly second guessing everything becuase it might not be what it says on the label. We have a system in place to regulate this kind of stuff. Medical practices and laws regarding health care. If a mistake is made, or direct malicious action is taken, there are avenues to fight that.
In fairness, though, how long did it take before cigarettes being harmful was openly acknowledged? Hell, or climate change? Lots of obfuscation going on there. If one was to squint and not pay attention, vaccines could look like that.Happyninja42 said:
Agreed. While I detest the idea of being an anti-vaxxer, people need to understand that various life experiences and guidance from others is what causes these people to develop these ideas. People don't just grow up as a neutral human being and then decide something like this. It's why these beliefs are always so entrenched and often unchangeable.Saelune said:
Cigarettes and major fossil fuel are both younger than vaccines though. The first vaccine (smallpox) was developed in 1790[footnote]http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/24/3/611.full[/footnote]. The first (commercial) cigarettes were produced in 1865[footnote]http://healthliteracy.worlded.org/docs/tobacco/Unit1/2history_of.html[/footnote], and the rough beginning of major fossil fuel use was ~1900[footnote]http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=10[/footnote]. Hell, penicillin and antibiotics were only discovered in 1928[footnote]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Discovery[/footnote] and 1907 respectively[footnote]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotics#History[/footnote], but no one has issues with using them.Thaluikhain said:
Honestly? Yeah. I do.Happyninja42 said:
Shit I'm sitting here right now eating wild caught salmon I bought at the grocery store. But how the hell do I really know it was wild caught? just cause the package tells me?
They sold red pistachios for YEARS, YEARS people were eating them and then suddenly they found out the red coating actually caused cancer.
I'm not advocating anti-vaxxors by any means, I'm just saying I see the point. We take a lot of shit in this world on faith.
To be fair I undestand her somehow.
When I went to the Army the army doctos always make sure to take a shot of an injection so you don't get ill while you serve your country...
However this "coctail" even if it have a name [I think...] is still a mystery...
We don't know what kind of sh*t can make you take while you are under their control...
I still remember a fellow soldier he declined to take the shot and they send him not only in Prison, but also in courts so he would get judge later for his decision.....
Very mess up...
Put yeah, none had died from this from what I heared, but still a mystery...
When I went to the Army the army doctos always make sure to take a shot of an injection so you don't get ill while you serve your country...
However this "coctail" even if it have a name [I think...] is still a mystery...
We don't know what kind of sh*t can make you take while you are under their control...
I still remember a fellow soldier he declined to take the shot and they send him not only in Prison, but also in courts so he would get judge later for his decision.....
Very mess up...
Put yeah, none had died from this from what I heared, but still a mystery...
Not gonna happen. The movement will always have traction no matter what. You can also look forward to people saying Jenny McCarthy was assassinated at some point.RaikuFA said:
It's not about evidence. Their position is that they are right and everyone else is brainwashed or in on it. The basic premise is the rejection of conflicting evidence wholesale. I've talked to people who know that Wakefield's report was bullshit created by someone with a conflict of interest who was attempting to deceive the public and got fired as a result. They maintain that vaccines cause autism and that the medical industry is trying to suppress that. It's strikingly similar to the conspiracy theory occupying my corner where I've talked to several people who admit that a piece of evidence that would prove beyond reasonable doubt that the theory was true was actually fabricated whole cloth. They admitted that the only source for the theory lied to their faces about a crucial piece of evidence but they maintained that the theory was true. Of course, I was just closed-minded since this greatly coloured my perception on the validity of the theory (read: I didn't blindly accept it even when the presenter of the theory committed the very same thing they accused the "officials" of doing while having no evidence the "officials" did anything).
On top of that, they know to some degree that autism can "appear" (though some say that it is obviously due to manufactured reasons) so even if McCarthy's kids got autism they'd say it was a fluke. Or maybe they'd accuse her of secretly getting vaccines and is being justly punished for it.
Saying this is good is like saying someone who had brake issues with their car is smart for getting their brakes fixed *after* a crah
When it comes to vaccines I am all for them (but a few doctors way smarter than me are against flu shots unless you absolutely need them (very old or very young)) but I believe that they should be and remain one of the most vigorously tested and watched medicines in the world. I condemn government mandated laws to force people and their kids to be vaccinated though. Instead, mandatory education classes at the start of the school year and keeping the entire contents of the vaccines public, easy to access knowledge without any nebulous statements like "various preservatives" will go a long ways to dispelling fear. That and cutting down on lobbying which from personal experience has absolutely destroyed any remaining faith in the government (and its branches like the FDA) to remain impartial. That does not mean that I think that they are always lying, just never telling the whole truth.
But the latter will likely not happen so there will always be the wary when you hear about various corporations and businesses that get away with some serious shit and then they will turn around and ask why the same could not happen with big-pharma. I sort fall into this category but not all the way.
P.S. I am only slightly more against the anti-vaxxers as I am against the blindly pro-vaxxers.
P.S.S. I have never met anyone who actually believed that vaccines causes autism, mostly it is fear of the unknown which is some potent shit.
But the latter will likely not happen so there will always be the wary when you hear about various corporations and businesses that get away with some serious shit and then they will turn around and ask why the same could not happen with big-pharma. I sort fall into this category but not all the way.
P.S. I am only slightly more against the anti-vaxxers as I am against the blindly pro-vaxxers.
P.S.S. I have never met anyone who actually believed that vaccines causes autism, mostly it is fear of the unknown which is some potent shit.