Antitheists and hypocrisy (SORRY FOR MAKING A RELIGION THREAD)

[peachadelic]

It seems to me sometimes that those "atheist missionaries" are more common in societies which are heavily influenced by Christianity. In a country that has Buddhist roots, for example, even non-believers are more easygoing about people who have different opinions, i.e. people who are religious.

I guess it's hard to deny that North Americas and Europes societies are deeply influenced by Christianity, and I think this has a strong influence even on atheists in these countries.
The Christian way is to try and convert others of one's own opinion, and "christian atheists", seem to often inherit that trait.

Even though those people claim to hate Christianity with a passion, their characters are shaped by it in one way or another.

 

[Cavouku]

Okay first of all as I said in the title, sorry for making a religion thread but I really need to get it off my chest.

You know them, or maybe even are one of them. Atheists. I am not one for one but I don't particularly despise them or any other religions for that matter.

Anyway a particular group of them always whine about how christian people always try to convert everyone and let's take my brother for example. He always says that as well and WHENEVER someone brings up religion he has a speech how all religion is bullshit and that atheism is the only way to go.

This is a trend I recognise on more people and is the irony lost on them?

They complain about how theists try to convert people into believing into the gods, wheras they use that argument to convince someone to be an atheist!

Is it just me or do more people notice this and could someone clear this up for me?


EDIT: If you know what I'm talking about, antitheists as you call them, why do you still desregard EVERYTHING I say?

Well, it could be worse, you could have the Atheists, feeling like they're the one true way, circling the globe and murdering, killing and otherwise stamping out any other religion they don't see as theirs, while destroying all history and knowledge of said religion. You know, sort of like what Christian and Catholic missionaries did to the world.

That'll happen when Cartman freezes himself, and goes... I forget how many years in the future. Hell, the Atheists are killing each other because they have different ideas for names.

Ah well, the missionaries were a bit crazy. That doesn't make the religion crazy, I don't think. Like hating white people for what they did to black people. It's done, it'd be in bad taste to hold different generations accountable.

I didn't say either religions were crazy, nowhere, in fact, did I even presume to come to that conclusion. I merely stated, if Atheists are using words...and words alone, in this situation. It's far better than what's been done in the past, by people supposedly interested in spreading peace and love.

Well, it's not half as bad, of course. I was just meandering with the "crazy" thing, wasn't putting words into your mouth, don't worry.

They were probably interested in peace and love, they just thought do it with violence and hate.

 

[Captain Blackout]

Well, it could be worse, you could have the Atheists, feeling like they're the one true way, circling the globe and murdering, killing and otherwise stamping out any other religion they don't see as theirs, while destroying all history and knowledge of said religion. You know, sort of like what Christian and Catholic missionaries did to the world.

[Yeah, Mao Zedong was all sense and reason and it got millions of people killed.

Woo Hoo Christians are murderers religion is EVIL!

Not really. Religion has done as much good in the world as atheism. Anytime you imperialize a belief system whether it's Christianity or atheism people are going to die. Yet many here on the Escapist would be quite happy with imperialized atheism. We saw how well that went over in China, and I'm pretty sure Afghanistan would be a glass parking lot if 9/11 had happened in China rather than the U.S. and Mao Zedong was still around.

Bottom line: Atheism makes sense. So does belief beyond atheism. Both atheists and theists of all stripes have acted like dicks throughout history to each other and everyone else for one simple reason: None of them could keep from beating the next guy over, even to death, when he would convert.

I'm a huge critic of modern day Catholicism, in part because it began when Constantine imperialized Christianity. That doesn't make the anti-theists here any less ugly to me, given what I've seen them capable of in history.

Grow up Escapists. I'm an arrogant ass but I fully admit the world doesn't revolve around my view of it.

 

[loremazd]

Okay first of all as I said in the title, sorry for making a religion thread but I really need to get it off my chest.

You know them, or maybe even are one of them. Atheists. I am not one for one but I don't particularly despise them or any other religions for that matter.

Anyway a particular group of them always whine about how christian people always try to convert everyone and let's take my brother for example. He always says that as well and WHENEVER someone brings up religion he has a speech how all religion is bullshit and that atheism is the only way to go.

This is a trend I recognise on more people and is the irony lost on them?

They complain about how theists try to convert people into believing into the gods, wheras they use that argument to convince someone to be an atheist!

Is it just me or do more people notice this and could someone clear this up for me?


EDIT: If you know what I'm talking about, antitheists as you call them, why do you still desregard EVERYTHING I say?

Well, it could be worse, you could have the Atheists, feeling like they're the one true way, circling the globe and murdering, killing and otherwise stamping out any other religion they don't see as theirs, while destroying all history and knowledge of said religion. You know, sort of like what Christian and Catholic missionaries did to the world.

That'll happen when Cartman freezes himself, and goes... I forget how many years in the future. Hell, the Atheists are killing each other because they have different ideas for names.

Ah well, the missionaries were a bit crazy. That doesn't make the religion crazy, I don't think. Like hating white people for what they did to black people. It's done, it'd be in bad taste to hold different generations accountable.

I didn't say either religions were crazy, nowhere, in fact, did I even presume to come to that conclusion. I merely stated, if Atheists are using words...and words alone, in this situation. It's far better than what's been done in the past, by people supposedly interested in spreading peace and love.

What they are doing also should not be put up on a pedestal, it's still fundamentally wrong.

Okay first of all as I said in the title, sorry for making a religion thread but I really need to get it off my chest.

You know them, or maybe even are one of them. Atheists. I am not one for one but I don't particularly despise them or any other religions for that matter.

Anyway a particular group of them always whine about how christian people always try to convert everyone and let's take my brother for example. He always says that as well and WHENEVER someone brings up religion he has a speech how all religion is bullshit and that atheism is the only way to go.

This is a trend I recognise on more people and is the irony lost on them?

They complain about how theists try to convert people into believing into the gods, wheras they use that argument to convince someone to be an atheist!

Is it just me or do more people notice this and could someone clear this up for me?


EDIT: If you know what I'm talking about, antitheists as you call them, why do you still desregard EVERYTHING I say?

Well, it could be worse, you could have the Atheists, feeling like they're the one true way, circling the globe and murdering, killing and otherwise stamping out any other religion they don't see as theirs, while destroying all history and knowledge of said religion. You know, sort of like what Christian and Catholic missionaries did to the world.

And guess what, they were -wrong-! And because of it, we're not wishing for it to be repeated!

It's not likely to repeat, not by Christians or Catholics anyway. Their numbers are dwindling worldwide. Sort of like the America of Religions if you will.

Oh it'll repeat, not by Christians and Catholics, no, but It -will- repeat.

 

[Bored Tomatoe]

Stop grouping Atheists and anti-theists together.

I rarely do this, but: ^This.

 

[Soxafloppin]

am i athiest if religeon simply isnt a part of my life?

 

[clicketycrack]

Atheists are the new "internet cool".

Sad but true. Anyway, the reason most people try to convert you to their religion is for the same reason that they tell someone to get off the train tracks if a train is coming. As they see it, if they don't convert you, then your soul will be lost to eternal damnation and they might even see it as their falt.

 

[Razhem]

Well, I'm an atheist myself. I already went trough my "burning crusade" phase and thankfully realized in the end that I was just behaving like a dick. I believe there is nothing, only the dark void, that there is only one life, and as such, death is quite scary to me, I simply cannot comprehend what not existing means. Other people believe in a higher entity, that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that as long as you weren't a total asshole, it will all work out in the end, no matter how bad things were during life.

Way I see it, the world is already mean enough for us to be nasty to each other because of something that is so personal. I simply avoid speaking about religion if possible, and if not, I mostly just listen. I have arrived to a point where I simply want my ideals to be respected and I will respect others ideals. Because we can say science and rational all we want, but the same way nobody can prove a Flying spaghetti monster exists, nobody can prove he doesn't.

 

[Disaster Button]

Ugh. I hate generalization so much.

You will always get people in every religious or political groups that try to convert people, usually a minority, to their was of thinking. That's really all there is to it. This doesn't mean that said belief is wrong, or hyprocitrical in its entireity

 

[cobra_ky]

It doesn't take much to realize my computer doesn't perceive the universe as I do. A simple understanding of medicine and computer science makes this obvious as hell. Furthermore one of the biggest impediments to a true AI is that the machines we have built so far are only data managers. They have NO apprehension of the world behind the data. If you wish to state otherwise you have an impossible mountain to climb.

what apprehension of the world do YOU have beyond the data? without your senses, you wouldn't experience qualia at all. aside from the cogito, essentially every thought we have has been derived from, if not directly resulted from, our sensory experiences.

it's my belief that the biggest impediment to AI is that their sensory apparatus are so primitive compared to humans. obviously that's far from the only issue, but it's one i think goes under recognized.

My claim isn't baseless, did you get your computer science from a cracker-jack box? I've read the arguments against qualia. Every one I've read has holes in it. Given that I can apprehend my qualia I'd say yes, you are a moron for saying qualia don't exist without a better argument than has been previously presented. You can describe red to someone who has enough senses by using references to other senses. We have a natural reaction to warm and cold that correspond to colors. Your example of lightening is weak. I can describe lightening in terms of other physical phenomena. You can't do that with qualia.

the fact that we both apprehend sensory experience says nothing to their nature or their cause. is the association between red and warmth really inborn? or is it the result of conditioning early in life? you can explain the association between red and warmth to the colorblind, but that won't help them understand the experience of red. to them, hot things will still appear gray. someone with an inverted spectrum will still associate heat with what you consider blue.

of course we can can explain lightning in terms of other physical phenomena now. the ancient greeks couldn't, at least not accurately, because science had not advanced to the point where they could adequately describe concepts like electric charge. the point is, the fact that we don't have the vocabulary to explain the sensation of qualia now is no indication that that will always be the case.

Finally, if someone else is making your case for you better than you are, being a tool and jumping (possibly weakening their position) is just as arrogant as anything I've done here.

skeleon posted his response while i was typing mine. i didn't see it until well after i had already posted my reply.

Don't want responses like this? Don't call me arrogant. I'm arrogant as hell but it's not your job to make that judgement given you have no clue how extensive my background is on all the points I've made here.

Or in short, don't be a tool.

don't want to be called arrogant? don't BE arrogant. i don't care if you have a doctorate in philosophy, this is a complex and controversial issue, and to dismiss the views (held by dozens of doctors of philosophy) contrary to yours as moronic is, by definition, arrogant. i have just as much a right to call you arrogant as you have you call me a moron and a tool. the difference is you've freely admitted your arrogance.

 

[headshotcatcher]

But admitting you only believe because it makes you feel good just raises more questions than it answerers.

Also not every Muslim, Christian and Jew believes that their God is the same. You've also just said that other religions aren't real and are metaphors for YOUR own God.

Look if it makes you happy don't let me stop you, just understanding is human nature. Religions shrouded in nonsense just perk my curiosity.

Sorry if I offended you.

You could state that god makes me feel good because I believe in his glory (just saying)

Anyway I didn't say they were metaphors for MY god but THE SAME one, in essence the jews should be right because they were the first one.

I'm not planning on letting anyone stop me And I understand that people like to understand stuff but we don't know how the brain works exactly either do we? Yet we enjoy it fully.

Don't worry I'm not offended all that fast

snip

Good for you But the way I see it EVEN IF life is meaningless that shouldn't mean that you should act like a dick, but rather that you should embrace it as long as you have it..

 

[Puzzles]

sigh..

Whatever happened to "Believe in your own ideals but respect others beliefs"
I can see this thread degenerating into another mud slinging contest...

I used to be like that; after a while, I just realised that I didn't have to respect someone elses beliefs. It's like, I automatically need to respect it because this person truely believes it is true or what? It doesn't matter, it's still a god damned stupid concept in modern society and I can't find any reason to respect the kind of person that would actually believe any of it in the face of science coming up with rational explanations for almost everything, even if we can't all understand quarks and reflux break wind wibble theory, if we wanted to learn about it then it would make sense to us in a rational manner, not in a supernatural "faith" concept, without any sort of rationalisation or explanation that could hold water you just need to believe.

I don't respect people who do retarded things, and there is no way I'm going to respect people who believe retarded things and most definately I am not going to respect those people when they choose to reject a rational explanation and keep living in Neverland.

Who draws the line on political correctness anyway, a multiple amputee using a pencil wedged between his teeth? I wish society would hurry up and progress already instead of living in the past and defending a clearly moronic institution/belief.

Please stop making religion threads.

 

[headshotcatcher]

I'm not planning on letting anyone stop me And I understand that people like to understand stuff but we don't know how the brain works exactly either do we? Yet we enjoy it fully.

Not trying to nitpick or anything, but we most certainly don't fully enjoy our brain. It's only partially in use at any given moment, and it's not a majority part.

You are nitpicking *blank stare*

I meant for it to be a metaphor and you get what I meant anyway

 

[Casual Shinji]

What they are doing also should not be put up on a pedestal, it's still fundamentally wrong. /

Who's putting them up on a pedestal? Anyone who desires to speak, should be able to do so without fear of being killed for it. Beyond that, Christians/Catholics other religions, are fully capable of defending themselves against the big bad atheists.

Oh it'll repeat, not by Christians and Catholics, no, but It -will- repeat.

That's a shame...millions don't need to die simply because opinions/beliefs differ.

In the end Religion nor Atheism is the caus of violence in the world. it's just the flag under wich it is commited. That's why there is no one Ideology that'll create world peace.