Any Gypsies here? And if so, care to discuss?

[Ansive]

Gypsies aka Romani. Mostly of indian descent (skin color, features).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Note: "as a term 'gypsy' is considered derogatory by many members of the Roma community because of negative and stereotypical associations with the term"


There's a lot of then in Romania (2% of the population) and also in other countries, but they're not of Romanian ethnicity (descended primarily from Latin with some Slavic, German, Greek, Hungarian and Turkish... romania was conquered by a lot of empires, lol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_people

 

[darth.pixie]

I've heard them referred to as Romani before, but this confuses me. Is that reference to the country Romania? I thought they were called Romanians.

Romani is the name they've given themselves. Kind of like all of, say US, waking up one day and deciding that they wanted to be called "the elvish people" (first thing that crossed my mind)

This is also a reason on why I never state my nationality on any forums or foreign environments.

When you befriend one, you have at least 20 people backing you up (in anything). They're sociable and you can trust them. (I repeat, if you're friends).

If not..well...all of the above, I suppose.

There's a lot of then in Romania (2% of the population) and also in other countries, but they're not of Romanian ethnicity (descended primarily from Latin with some Slavic, German, Greek, Hungarian and Turkish... romania was conquered by a lot of empires, lol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_people

Think of it as Ankh-Morpork...they just settled and wouldn't leave.

 

[Verp]

The whole gypsy business makes me pretty confused. Even to people I know who are pretty open-minded and seem to have had as little to do with them as I have (which is very, very little), gypsies seem to be fair game. In general, gypsies seem to be acceptable targets for just about everything you'd get mightily spanked for in your social circles if you did it to black people or, I dunno, Mid-Eastern folks.

I'm not too bothered because I generally lack empathy and often coast along with people's morals when I find the results irrelevant to my life, but it makes me wonder if the genuinely empathetic "normal" people notice this lack of consistency or whether they have less empathy and understanding in them than I have been led to think they do.

 

[blackguard89]

I'm romanian. A travelling romanian isn't a gypsies. Rromanians (2xR) as they like to call themselfs are the gypsies.

Sweet.Sup dawg? im romainan too.Anyways I agree with him.Trust us we live here and we know stuff better xD

 

[blackguard89]

I've heard them referred to as Romani before, but this confuses me. Is that reference to the country Romania? I thought they were called Romanians.

Romani is the name they've given themselves. Kind of like all of, say US, waking up one day and deciding that they wanted to be called "the elvish people" (first thing that crossed my mind)

This is also a reason on why I never state my nationality on any forums or foreign environments.

When you befriend one, you have at least 20 people backing you up (in anything). They're sociable and you can trust them. (I repeat, if you're friends).

If not..well...all of the above, I suppose.

Terribly sorry for the double post, but yeah.They are nor Romani......they are called rromi or rroms might be translated more correctly.

 

[roger moores eyebrow]

Yeah, from what I hear it's all essentially hatred against them.

My girlfriend used to live in Epsom, and she used to always be able to see the Travellers come down the road for the Epsom Derby every year. It appears they're especially hatred around Epsom that time of year...

My Gran used to live in that area and some of her older friends used to get intimidated into letting gypsies do 'garden landscaping' and paving driveways which pretty much always led to them getting ripped of or burgled or both!

 

[jrubal1462]

The whole gypsy business makes me pretty confused. Even to people I know who are pretty open-minded and seem to have had as little to do with them as I have (which is very, very little), gypsies seem to be fair game. In general, gypsies seem to be acceptable targets for just about everything you'd get mightily spanked for in your social circles if you did it to black people or, I dunno, Mid-Eastern folks.

I'm not too bothered because I generally lack empathy and often coast along with people's morals when I find the results irrelevant to my life, but it makes me wonder if the genuinely empathetic "normal" people notice this lack of consistency or whether they have less empathy and understanding in them than I have been led to think they do.

Yeah, it seems strangely socially acceptable and hardly politically incorrect at all to condemn and stereotype them. That seems very strange to me. There are certainly no shortage of stories of Romani mugging escapists at knife-point. Are those cases of some bad apples, or is that perfectly acceptable in Romani culture? If you asked would they say, "Oh yeah...we do that all the time, it'd kind of our thing...it's what we do?" Hmm....off to wikipedia for some answers.

 

[ameliaaa]

I think it's disgusting that people still slander gypsies the way they do. Half the time without any real facts or experience.

My entire family belongs to the romany community though many of us are settled.
Of the men, most work as freelance farm hands or are self employed tradesmen, a few have even become HGV drivers. Of the women, most are in admin or at least part time work if they aren't mothers.
The portion considered thieves tend to be new age travellers or the gypsies who don't follow the moral code we're supposed to. But as with anything else, the few bad ones end up dwarfing the much higher numbers which are honest and kind folk.



In a nutshell Sam, we tend to be a very close knit community who abide by strict moral and behavioural codes. This is different of different groups, irish gypsies tend to be devout catholics but to a point most are religious. Women don't act like sluts and there is strictly no misvehaviour with men before marriage. If they're going to go out, they must do so with a group of other girls and regularly check in with their parents.
The eldest tends to help take care of the family and they're very family orientated. Traditionally, the women raise the family and the men go out and work. Work tending to be a trade or manually labour, commonly self employed or as part of a family business.

 

[Cheskaz]

I think it's disgusting that people still slander gypsies the way they do. Half the time without any real facts or experience.

My entire family belongs to the romany community though many of us are settled.
Of the men, most work as freelance farm hands or are self employed tradesmen, a few have even become HGV drivers. Of the women, most are in admin or at least part time work if they aren't mothers.
The portion considered thieves tend to be new age travellers or the gypsies who don't follow the moral code we're supposed to. But as with anything else, the few bad ones end up dwarfing the much higher numbers which are honest and kind folk.



In a nutshell Sam, we tend to be a very close knit community who abide by strict moral and behavioural codes. This is different of different groups, irish gypsies tend to be devout catholics but to a point most are religious. Women don't act like sluts and there is strictly no misvehaviour with men before marriage. If they're going to go out, they must do so with a group of other girls and regularly check in with their parents.
The eldest tends to help take care of the family and they're very family orientated. Traditionally, the women raise the family and the men go out and work. Work tending to be a trade or manually labour, commonly self employed or as part of a family business.

Thank you, this forum has been almost entirely one sided and extremely unfair.

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

I think it's disgusting that people still slander gypsies the way they do. Half the time without any real facts or experience.

My entire family belongs to the romany community though many of us are settled.
Of the men, most work as freelance farm hands or are self employed tradesmen, a few have even become HGV drivers. Of the women, most are in admin or at least part time work if they aren't mothers.
The portion considered thieves tend to be new age travellers or the gypsies who don't follow the moral code we're supposed to. But as with anything else, the few bad ones end up dwarfing the much higher numbers which are honest and kind folk.



In a nutshell Sam, we tend to be a very close knit community who abide by strict moral and behavioural codes. This is different of different groups, irish gypsies tend to be devout catholics but to a point most are religious. Women don't act like sluts and there is strictly no misvehaviour with men before marriage. If they're going to go out, they must do so with a group of other girls and regularly check in with their parents.
The eldest tends to help take care of the family and they're very family orientated. Traditionally, the women raise the family and the men go out and work. Work tending to be a trade or manually labour, commonly self employed or as part of a family business.

Thanks ever so much for weighing on this, Amelia. It appears that the majority of people think of Irish Travellors when the word 'Gypsy' is uttered; on the Channel 4 documentorry which inspired me to ask this, one of the most controversial things of note was the dressing up - or perhaps slagifying of - the little girls aged 6 for their first communion. Not the gowns, but the quite awful tube tops and mini skirts, along with their rather... stripper style of dancing... I felt like I was being added to the sex offendors list just watching it!

What's your take on this scene? Obviously these aren't the Romani people, but they certainly reflect negativly on the whole group of people who fall under the catergory of 'Gypsie'.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I wouldn't presume to judge all Irish travellers in the UK but in my experiences with them every last one lived up to their negative stereotypes.

If they want to reverse this image they need to step forward and speak up for themselves. That C4 doc almost did them a favour in that they did open up to the journalists but it didn't go deep enough and focused on them glorifying their own insular culture. (and what was up with those outfits!? "We're aren't sluts and we don't act like them", well why do you dress like a complete prostitute then??

Anyway speaking of the bad ones, I believe everyone has the potential to pass rational judgement on their own behaviour and culture so I won't stand for any of this "us against them" bullshit about trying to justify their lives as thieves, conmen and liars. Society doesn't make you steal, you choose to. Of those who choose that life they are parasites on civilised society, nothing more.

 

[lee1287]

they don't talk about money because i'm positive thy steal, over-charge, rip off and just lie to obtian money. They don't pay taxes and contribute nothing to society. Except a channel 4 show about weddings.

What more do you need to know?

 

[Volstag9]

i have no idea, i've never met one.

But since not one has ever wronged me i have no opinion on them.

Plus you can't really generalize a culture. It never works.

 

[Adultism]

Any Elecro Gypsy's?

 

[ameliaaa]

Thanks ever so much for weighing on this, Amelia. It appears that the majority of people think of Irish Travellors when the word 'Gypsy' is uttered; on the Channel 4 documentorry which inspired me to ask this, one of the most controversial things of note was the dressing up - or perhaps slagifying of - the little girls aged 6 for their first communion. Not the gowns, but the quite awful tube tops and mini skirts, along with their rather... stripper style of dancing... I felt like I was being added to the sex offendors list just watching it!

What's your take on this scene? Obviously these aren't the Romani people, but they certainly reflect negativly on the whole group of people who fall under the catergory of 'Gypsie'.

Not at all, anyone who is open minded enough to at least ask questions or get the full picture before they pass judgement really should get the answers they're looking for.
Personally, I disliked this and their coverage of 'grabbing' (culture or not, the first person to try that would have socked right in the daddybags. just my personal view there.) I get that they sort of slagify because weddings and big events like that are basically the only opportunity they have to snag a husband so they want to look their best and this would start from a young age so it's ingrained in them to 'always look their best'. But I guess, it's sort of balanced out by the fact they're not going to BEHAVE like slags. They might dance like strippers but you won't see any of them half drunk at the back of the reception getting it on with some bloke.
I'm honestly kinda uncomfortable by how grown up the younger girls seem - but I've nothing against them wanting to dress like some disney fairytale character for their communion.
It's one of the aspects I don't whole heartedly agree with, they can be glam without dressing in a manner that's gonna get a pretty strong negative reaction from most folk.

 

[Zetsubou-Sama]

Wow the so-called last bastion of intelligence on the internet, being close-minded about some of the biggest ethnic groups in the world.

The Romani, the Lyuli, the Kale, Irish Travellers and all other groups are a problematic bunch sure, but this is not the end all be all forr what they're people represent.

Most gypsie groups have, social framework, laws, in-depth culture that goes from literature to music, and have some of the oldest legacies in terms of moral order, religion and tradition, if nothing they are one of the most imutable people in the history of the world, mainly in Europe with a big academic value.

Most people in this thread can be accused of Antiziganism. Funny how one of the oldest ethnicies in the world still present today is still the target of such prejudice, even after being the second minority in terms of deaths during WWII.

Yes most urban-settled, Bidonville ridden, outskirts living Romani/Dom are known for crimes, like every single minority that was segregated, persecuted, hated and villified for centuries.

The biggest problem is simply that gypsies do not abide by no any other law except their own and some laws of the country they live as proxy, so they will never be accepted and the social stigma and prejudice will go on.

It's easier to hate on a group that is scattered around the world, has no real political sway or institution, and can't really stand for their community as a whole.

Saying Gypsies are thieves is the same as saying the people who live in the favela are thieves, that african-americans and hispanics are spooks and spics that always steal and cause trouble. It's racism/xenophobism and in a place where everyone is always trying to one up each other with wits and poor attempts at humour and intelligence, it pains me to see ignorance and such narrow mindedness.

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

snip

Not at all, anyone who is open minded enough to at least ask questions or get the full picture before they pass judgement really should get the answers they're looking for.
Personally, I disliked this and their coverage of 'grabbing' (culture or not, the first person to try that would have socked right in the daddybags. just my personal view there.) I get that they sort of slagify because weddings and big events like that are basically the only opportunity they have to snag a husband so they want to look their best and this would start from a young age so it's ingrained in them to 'always look their best'. But I guess, it's sort of balanced out by the fact they're not going to BEHAVE like slags. They might dance like strippers but you won't see any of them half drunk at the back of the reception getting it on with some bloke.
I'm honestly kinda uncomfortable by how grown up the younger girls seem - but I've nothing against them wanting to dress like some disney fairytale character for their communion.
It's one of the aspects I don't whole heartedly agree with, they can be glam without dressing in a manner that's gonna get a pretty strong negative reaction from most folk.

I think what was disturbing for many people - including myself - was the sexualization of these young girls. I mean, it's always been an argument that introducing young children to the idea of sex is either a good or a bad thing, but from what that documentory showed us, these girls have been introduced to the idea of showing as much skin as possible and grinding up poles; this is obviously quite disturbing to see on a 6 year old. Sure, on a 19 year old people might throw $1 bills at them, but a 6 year old dancing like that kinda... disturbs people.

snip

I know, reading this topic it does make it seem as though they are completly vilified and despised and on this site of all places on the internet it sounds depressing. However, it does seem that a lot of people either have no experiences whatsoever with this group of people - other than the occasional friendship or family tie - or they have a large amount of negative experiences. That seems the problem with a seciton of people that doesn't interact with larger society; you're only going to see negative exposure.


Any ideas on how to redeem the impressions of these people? Or perhaps any more insight into their culture?

 

[similar.squirrel]

Any ideas on how to redeem the impressions of these people? Or perhaps any more insight into their culture?

They appear to have an extremely insular and family-centric culture, which is most likely the product of having maintain a permanent community within the nomadic lifestyle.
This was probably reinforced by the centuries of persecution these people underwent, fostering an 'us vs. them' mentality with regards to settled populations.
I'd say most of the trouble stems from the clash of two cultures. Within their family/community units, the concept of ownership doesn't really hold much sway, and it could be difficult to accept how important it is to other people.
Also, seeing as the world hasn't given them much to begin with, they don't much feel the need to give anything back or abide by he rules of a society that has pretty much screwed them over since recently.
And again, it is all too easy to judge an entire group of people based on a few vocally stupid members.
Both my father and my girlfriend's mother have worked with members of both the Roma and Traveller communities, and they can attest to their civilized, if slightly idiosyncratic, ways.