Anyone else bothered by the increased blurring of gender roles?

[Concealed]

Out of all your complaints, the only one not hideously out-dated is that boys can't be boys. That bugs me. Kids should be able to fight with each other, be a little violent, it's good for them! Makes them tough! Let kids rough around, play in the dirt, scrape their knees. It's good for 'em!

But everything else makes me think you just stepped out of a time machine from the early 1900's.

See, I can never make this argument without being called a relic of the past. I've already been accused of this three times in this thread.

Never once did I suggest or condone a return to a time of women being "barefoot and pregnant" in the kitchen while the manly men went out to hunt bears. I like that women work and men have shared responsibility with children. I don't think the father/husband should hold a dictatorship over his household and beat his wife and kids.

But I do think that men and women have certain innate traits that make them better suited for different things. When I'm feeling sad and I need a sympathetic ear, I call my mother or a female friend, because women are generally better at empathy. And every girlfriend I've ever had enjoyed feeling safe in my presence, even if pragmatically there isn't much danger a cop couldn't protect her from. But boys and male teens today are increasingly turning into overly sensitive delicate flowers

I actually really agree with this. I don't agree with your assertion that it's going out the window, though. I will admit: For some women and men, this sort of gender dichotomy simply doesn't exist or doesn't factor into their lives. That doesn't mean that gender dynamics don't still exist.

For example: my good friend's girlfriend just broke up with him for being overly sensitive, not standing up for himself, and being unable to be strong when she needed someone to lean on. She wanted a guy who more clearly fell into the strong masculine role.

The one girl I've ever loved needed me to be a strong, male figure for her to lean on, and so I was. At that point in my life I needed a girl of whom I could be semi-possessive and protective and with whom I could occasionally share my intimate troubles. It worked perfectly and we were both incredibly happy in the stereotypical gender roles.

Then I have friends who completely eschew such roles.

It's not that the gender roles are gone, but rather that people now have a choice in whether that's what works for them. It does for some, it doesn't for others. And I think that's an awesome change.

 

[Booze Zombie]

And let me assure you, for all the cliche complaints about "women becoming men" and whatnot (oh, they're not that common? Hmm...), I'm glad women aren't as submissive. To put it in a somewhat geeky way, I'd much rather have a Haruhi than a Mikuru, or an Asuka than a Rei.

I was just saying they still exist, is all. Not all people want to be independent and assertive, some people (some women, some men) like being controlled.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Out of all your complaints, the only one not hideously out-dated is that boys can't be boys. That bugs me. Kids should be able to fight with each other, be a little violent, it's good for them! Makes them tough! Let kids rough around, play in the dirt, scrape their knees. It's good for 'em!

But everything else makes me think you just stepped out of a time machine from the early 1900's.

See, I can never make this argument without being called a relic of the past. I've already been accused of this three times in this thread.

Never once did I suggest or condone a return to a time of women being "barefoot and pregnant" in the kitchen while the manly men went out to hunt bears. I like that women work and men have shared responsibility with children. I don't think the father/husband should hold a dictatorship over his household and beat his wife and kids.

But I do think that men and women have certain innate traits that make them better suited for different things. When I'm feeling sad and I need a sympathetic ear, I call my mother or a female friend, because women are generally better at empathy. And every girlfriend I've ever had enjoyed feeling safe in my presence, even if pragmatically there isn't much danger a cop couldn't protect her from. But boys and male teens today are increasingly turning into overly sensitive delicate flowers

I think the main reason that women are "better" at expessing their feelings is because that's society's expected role of a women. Men are supposed to be tough, gruff, and emotionally unmoving. They rarely show their emotions and they certainly don't take about them with other gusy. On the other hand women are expected to talk about their feelings with one another and use each other as support. These two phenomina aren't due to biological differences, but because social expectations that caused people to grow up a certain way. Women (for the most part) are "better" with feelings because they grew up exploring and sharing their feelings, men grew up keeping it to themselves and ignoring them for the most part.

Now I've got nothing against someone fulfiling their traditional gender role; the man protecting his wife and the woman raising the children. That's cool, whatever. I just don't like it when they are forced into that role due to genders. Yeah, on average, a man will be physically stronger than a women (of course men are expected to be fit and strong, while women aren't), but there are probably plenty of women out there who could kick most men's ass in a fight. Should that women be always protected by some male simply because she doesn't have the right gentalia?

 

[Nimcha]

To be pretty, rich and have an office job. Otherwise, see above.

That is so untrue it's not even funny. As for you other points, people can still go into the army if they want to (and plenty want to). What other people think about shouldn't matter. Also, why is it a bad thing men aren't supposed to be 'strong' anymore? I for one believe society is a lot better off with 'smart' men than 'strong' men.

 

[JaredXE]

Anecdotal evidence is poor support for sweeping generalizations.

Except it's not. Realistically speaking, your experiences shape how you see the world, and I see that since the midpart of the last century my country (when gender roles were being dropped) has a rising divorce rate(fact) and rising number of kids living with only one parent(fact). Just because I have personal stories of people I know doesn't make them the exception to the rule, but rather they are a form of support to other, FACTUAL generalizations.

Besides, every datum of a statistic is an anecdotal story.

 

[Nimcha]

Anecdotal evidence is poor support for sweeping generalizations.

Except it's not. Realistically speaking, your experiences shape how you see the world, and I see that since the midpart of the last century my country (when gender roles were being dropped) has a rising divorce rate(fact) and rising number of kids living with only one parent(fact). Just because I have personal stories of people I know doesn't make them the exception to the rule, but rather they are a form of support to other, FACTUAL generalizations.

Besides, every datum of a statistic is an anecdotal story.

The point is, you can't draw any conclusions from that statistic. Unless you assume divorce is inherently a bad thing. Which is a whole other subject.

 

[Chewiemuse]

How are these boys going to group up to be leaders of men and protectors of women?

Well, not, obviously. And women don't need men to protect them.

sounds like someoooones a Womaaan

 

[Serenegoose]

Given that I'm anti-gender, the increased blurring of gender roles makes me oh-so very happy. I can't think of one positive thing gender has ever contributed to society. It's made countless millions of men and women utterly miserable since the dawn of time... for nothing. Why do we need gender roles? Can't we simply just be ourselves without trying to force ourselves into unnatural molds? Wouldn't we all be happier if the thought 'oh, I'd like to do this, but people would think it's weird/unnatural/disgusting for a boy/girl to do that' just never happened?

 

[Nimcha]

How are these boys going to group up to be leaders of men and protectors of women?

Well, not, obviously. And women don't need men to protect them.

sounds like someoooones a Womaaan

I'm busted!

 

[Koroviev]

Anecdotal evidence is poor support for sweeping generalizations.

Except it's not. Realistically speaking, your experiences shape how you see the world, and I see that since the midpart of the last century my country (when gender roles were being dropped) has a rising divorce rate(fact) and rising number of kids living with only one parent(fact). Just because I have personal stories of people I know doesn't make them the exception to the rule, but rather they are a form of support to other, FACTUAL generalizations.

Besides, every datum of a statistic is an anecdotal story.

Have you completed a course in college-level English?

 

[A random person]

And let me assure you, for all the cliche complaints about "women becoming men" and whatnot (oh, they're not that common? Hmm...), I'm glad women aren't as submissive. To put it in a somewhat geeky way, I'd much rather have a Haruhi than a Mikuru, or an Asuka than a Rei.

I was just saying they still exist, is all. Not all people want to be independent and assertive, some people (some women, some men) like being controlled.

I was going of your claim that Barbie girls are rare. Sorry, probably should have specified that.

Besides, every datum of a statistic is an anecdotal story.

And anecdotes work just fine to show that something can happen. When it comes to showing trends, however, you need several of those anecdotal datums to make a statistic. Saying anecdotes are fine because they're a datum is like saying a statistic with one data point it fine, which is just ridiculous.

 

[etherlance]

My only concern here is that there is a breed of males coming into the world that I have labled:


"Homo Bieberus"


Other than that I have no problems with this sort of thing......after all, women will soon make man obsolete and rule the planet......and I say let them.

 

[JediMB]

I am not bothered.

I prefer to let people define themselves rather than try to define them by their gender/sex.

 

[Verp]

I don't really get it, guise.

So, some people are worried because the traditional gender roles aren't enforced anymore. The reason to this is apparently because these people believe that men and women are inherently differing, are good at different things, have drives to aspire to be different things, etc.

Okay then, so... Why do we need to impose roles on people, again? If these differences are INHERENT, and NATURAL, then why do some kinds of predetermined roles need to be implemented and be systematically protected from blurring? Are we human beings really that inadequate and sucky that we should all just assume that without gender roles, people wouldn't know what they like to do, what they're good at, and what enables them to be functional human beings?

 

[Chewiemuse]

How are these boys going to group up to be leaders of men and protectors of women?

Well, not, obviously. And women don't need men to protect them.

sounds like someoooones a Womaaan

I'm busted!

OMG YOU SO ARE....wee ooo wee koo..." attention thus is the gender police, come out with your hands up, We know you have breasts!"


Lol

Well anyways this is an extremly touchy subject and its not just the men who are turning into "Wussies" as you so plainly put it

Its how our society os becoming so scared of everything ...this has nothing to do with gender.. its how our work is ran now days and the reason kids grow up in our generatin so screwed up is because the parents are to afraid to push their kids to do anything or even touch their kids like popping their mouths when they talk back...no its all " let's listen to their feelings let's let them run the family" and that's wrong obviously if you see a kid doing something wrong...you talk to him but that's all some parents do..people need to learn to raise their kids. To be strong and make them do work and chores and punish a kid when they deserve it and not be fucking scared of giving them some emotional trama because a five year old doesn't understand sit and share feelings time...it has nothing to do with gender it's who's raising the kids


Alright there's my two cents

 

[Koroviev]

I don't really get it, guise.

So, some people are worried because the traditional gender roles aren't enforced anymore. The reason to this is apparently because these people believe that men and women are inherently differing, are good at different things, have drives to aspire to be different things, etc.

Okay then, so... Why do we need to impose roles on people, again? If these differences are INHERENT, and NATURAL, then why do some kinds of predetermined roles need to be implemented and be systematically protected from blurring? Are we human beings really that inadequate and sucky that we should all just assume that without gender roles, people wouldn't know what they like to do, what they're good at, and what enables them to be functional human beings?

The horror! Anything but free will!

 

[warm slurm]

What's wrong with a boy being a "sissy"?

 

[Koroviev]

What's wrong with a boy being a "sissy"?

His forehead doesn't protrude enough.

 

[robot slipper]

Women are just as capable as men in almost every field they might endeavour at. The only exceptions that I can see being:

Fighter pilots. Women's bodies for some reason perform a little below men's at high Gs. It has been postulated that this is because of the different distribution of fat (mainly into the breasts, pressing on the chest) but even that is mostly supposition.

Interesting, I saw a programme that claimed entirely the opposite with regards to dealing with high G's. Due to the shorter average height of women, the distance from their head to their chest and legs is shorter, and therefore they are able to push blood back up to their heads faster and not fall unconscious. Basically, an average-to-tall man will find it harder to cope with high G's than an average woman or short man.

I think it's good that roles are becoming more equal, especially with regards to fathers having more of an active role in the care of their children. My grandmother's mouth dropped open in shock the first time she saw my boyfriend change our son's nappy!

In a lecture I went to once about eating disorders, it was discussed that one of the reasons that eating disorders have become more prevalent in recent years is because women are now expected to have so many roles at once eg a career, a good parent, keeping a tidy home, and still being attractive and desirable. Whereas before women only had the parent/homemaker role and that was all that was expected of them. (Obviously the main cause is the crap in the media and magazines etc.)

As far as adolescent boys acting like "pansies", again I think it's down to the parenting, and sometimes to do with the incresing hyper-sensitivity of schools and nurseries about health and safety/getting sued. I never used to make a big deal when my son was a toddler if he tripped over and scraped his knee, bumped his head etc., I would simply make sure he was ok then send him on his way. As a result, whenever he did sustain small injuries he simply shrugged it off with minimal or no crying. When he started going to nursery however, he soon noticed that sustaining any tiny injury got you loads of attention, hugs, bandages etc. so that the nursery wouldnt be accused of mistreatment of an injury. Since then it takes ages for him to stop crying after he hurts himself.

 

[TeeBs]

I'm sorry but theres one thing you never talked about in your OP, what is the advantage of masculinity in the modern day.