Apple Brainwashes Gay Cure App from iTunes

[AquaAscension]

Mhm.
While I disagree with this man's position I have to agree that persons like him should have the right to spread their words.

Why?
Because I rather had some idiot running around, shouting bullshit than leaving the dicision about what statements should be considered bullshit to apple.

At some point being a democratic society has to imply that people in that society are capable of recognizing bullshit on their own. How else could you expect them to hold up to the responsibility of voting?

I tend to look at forums for the wisdom of their denizens. You bring up a point that scares me. America is currently in the process of gutting its education programs. If not immediately it will be soon.

For example, my current home state of Iowa is opting to pass tax cuts rather than ensure that teachers can teach. While this might seem off topic, I assure you that the topic is a river and this a tributary that runs into it.

The grand issue with a democratic society is that it MUST, at some level, keep its people educated so as to make that democracy work. Add to this the fact that its citizens must also have a drive to participate in that country in order to ensure that it is better... add to that the citizens in a democracy must be able to think beyond and outside of themselves...

Well, this is where the water begins flowing faster. Iowans are not stupid, I think. Perhaps myopic, but not stupid. Yet we have those that stand for the citizens voting for tax cuts rather than education. Without education, the citizens of a democracy cannot as efficiently serve their purpose. But what can we do?

 

[theultimateend]

Because they're objectively wrong and it's awesome that Apple's not allowing such ridiculousness in their store.

How do you know that it's objectively wrong?

Similarly dying is objectively bad.

It's something that any sane person knows.

I think Chris Rock said it best, though he was talking about racism.

Just be second...

Keep in mind I'm white, and straight for that matter. Just to set some groundwork.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_L7qoP17-w[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_L7qoP17-w - Since I apparently don't know how the youtube tag works >_>.


It's basically how I feel about this.

It's a matter of insane people being treated as if their views of life and the treatment of others is sane. Not that I'm saying you are insane. But anyone who would view homosexuality as a disease is indeed insane.

They is nothing beyond superstition to support the claim.

It is also anything but harmless. Modern politics and the actions taken against whatever race or creed of people we are actively at war with are great examples of how a certain phrase, or idea, said enough times will motivate people to do absolutely insane things.

Good for Apple! Gay Cure my arse, science even has a reason for homosexuality these days, its perfectly natural!

Wait, what? When did this happen?

I'm thinking the idea of homosexuality being a "disease" that needs to be "cured" is really the only problem here. Having an app that supposedly turns homosexuals straight wouldn't cause any commotion, or at least not any valid commotion, because then whoever uses it is doing so of their own volition. Poor wording is poor, in this case, but I can't disagree with the basic functionality.

There are quite a few evolutionarily strong reasons why homosexuality is natural. It's a trait that does not require either parent to be gay (because it only needs them both to have the gene for it to be passed on) and in pre-modern times it was an incredibly helpful factor in a family construct.

Having active members of your society that are not also with child would have meant you had extra hands to help with tasks and to carry the load.

I am not saying that gay people never have kids, when I say pre-modern I'm pointing at pretty far back.

There are plenty of wonderfully written books and case studies on the topic that would do this much more justice than my butchering of the data :/. Basically there is no scientific reason to be surprised that it's around, no environmental reason that it wouldn't exist, and no rational reason why it should be considered something that needs fixing.

There is nobody of sound mind, at all, harmed by this. This isn't pedophilia, this isn't rape, this isn't something where a person is taken against their will or without proper understanding of the situation, these are sane people with a perfectly understandable genetic makeup carrying on perfectly sane lives.

The (general) reality that folks don't ask why their friends chose to be straight is enough to note a deep level of cognitive dissonance on this topic. If you don't have to choose to be any particular sexuality why would you assume that you had to choose to be any sexuality?

But generally speaking gender roles, sexuality, and anything involving these topics is pretty badly butchered in the states. We are still suffering from our puritan undertones. I'm sure globally you'll find most "gay is a disease" regions being similar in that respect (though I suspect we'd call them fundamentalists).

Why not just re-release it as an app to help people of faith (whatever faiths it is that take issue with homosexual relations), who happen to be gay, abstain from commiting the sin of homosexual sex? Instead of marketing it as a "cure", they could just as easy do a "self-help" sort of deal.

In your example I don't think them being gay is the problem they need to overcome.

Similar to how prince's hips are giving out and he's only able to walk with a cane because his faith dictates that he cannot get a blood transfusion.

If people are willing to go out of their way to hurt themselves by taking something very real and sacrificing it for something that...well I don't want to say unreal because thoughts are real in many contexts...but hopefully you can find the word that I'm looking for, but regardless that particular choice is one that should probably not be so easily applauded.

At least not before there is any strong evidence that such a thing is positive.

Keep in mind as a fiction writer I really love fantasy. I'm not saying fantasy is a bad thing. But I also don't think folks should tattoo a serpent on their arm in hopes of joining Voldemort. That's probably again...a bad example...but I'm tired and I hope you can parse the point from this hogwash (or should I say hogwarts SNARF...no more posting while that OST is going).

 

[Mad World]

Similarly dying is objectively bad.

It's something that any sane person knows.

I think Chris Rock said it best, though he was talking about racism.

Just be second...

Keep in mind I'm white, and straight for that matter. Just to set some groundwork.

You still haven't proven that it's objectively wrong to be against it.

As for me, I'm straight and think that it's wrong to commit homosexual acts.

I'd also like to point out that I'm not insane.

 

[Saikonate]

How do you know that it's objectively wrong?

Because being gay isn't a disease and you can't cure it any more than you can cure the color blue.

As for me, I'm straight and think that it's wrong to commit homosexual acts.

Why?

 

[Mad World]

Because being gay isn't a disease and you can't cure it any more than you can cure the color blue.

Actually, people have been successfully changed from being homosexual over to being heterosexual; it can happen.

Why?

I'm a Christian.

 

[Saikonate]

Actually, people have been successfully changed from being homosexual over to being heterosexual; it can happen.

edit:

I'm tempted to just be excessively dismissive here, but I realize that Exodus and similar groups are able to brainwash folks into genuinely believing what they say, as horrible as it is.

That said, I don't think it's an argument that supports your cause any more than if you were arguing that the existence of feral children means you can "successfully change" a child to be an animal. The fact that you can abuse someone's sexual proclivities out of them is at best irrelevant. To put it another way: If I'm able to convince someone he's a teapot, that's not evidence supporting the idea that non-teapotism is a disease that needs curing.

I'm a Christian.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Still Life]

I think Alan Chambers has every right to have his app there on App Store. He is talking about freedom of information, and that's true: he should be able to place his app there.

I'm on the fence, yet I'm leaning on the side of Apple.

Here's my initial take:

It's not so much that his right to platform us being smothered, but in that he is selling a product which is preying upon a social group in the form of an interactive product. Sexuality is a very sensitive issue and is one of the key pillars of an individual's identity; it is also a very hard thing to come to terms with. This is where 'discrimination' comes in.

This man is using his position of privilege to discriminate against those who don't conform to his personal beliefs/lifestyles and fallaciously claim his freedom is on the line when he is actively trying to manipulate the lives of others.

I don't care if Chambers is against 'homosexuality'. He most likely has a flock he can preach to. However, Chambers has created a product which interferes with other individual's liberties and preys upon insecurities.

Also, dogma is not a sufficient grounding for discrimination.

 

[Still Life]

Actually, people have been successfully changed from being homosexual over to being heterosexual; it can happen.

You mean in the same way 'Christian' groups here in Australia took Aboriginal children from their families and 'convinced' them that their skin color and culture were inferior?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I think Alan Chambers has every right to have his app there on App Store. He is talking about freedom of information, and that's true: he should be able to place his app there.

I'm on the fence, yet I'm leaning on the side of Apple.

Read the rest of my post and then decide whose side I'm really on.

 

[Still Life]

I think Alan Chambers has every right to have his app there on App Store. He is talking about freedom of information, and that's true: he should be able to place his app there.

I'm on the fence, yet I'm leaning on the side of Apple.

Read the rest of my post and then decide whose side I'm really on.

I didn't mean to take you out of context, sorry =]

 

[Mad World]

edit:

I'm tempted to just be excessively dismissive here, but I realize that Exodus and similar groups are able to brainwash folks into genuinely believing what they say, as horrible as it is.

That said, I don't think it's an argument that supports your cause any more than if you were arguing that the existence of feral children means you can "successfully change" a child to be an animal. The fact that you can abuse someone's sexual proclivities out of them is at best irrelevant. To put it another way: If I'm able to convince someone he's a teapot, that's not evidence supporting the idea that non-teapotism is a disease that needs curing.

My point was that someone can be changed from being homosexual. Whether or not you consider it to be a disease, it can be changed.

What does that have to do with anything?

You asked why I'm against homosexual acts. That's why. I consider committing homosexual acts to be a sin because doing so goes against Christianity.

You mean in the same way 'Christian' groups here in Australia took Aboriginal children from their families and 'convinced' them that their skin color and culture were inferior?

No. Some homosexual people decide that they don't want to be gay, so they seek help and are changed.

 

[Saikonate]

My point was that someone can be changed from being homosexual. Whether or not you consider it to be a disease, it can be changed.

And my point is that it can be changed only in the same way that you can convince someone of a variety of things through mental abuse.

I consider committing homosexual acts to be a sin because doing so goes against Christianity.

Why do you think homosexuality goes against Christianity, is what I'm getting at. Plenty of Christians disagree with you.

No. Some homosexual people decide that they don't want to be gay, so they seek help and are changed.

(the reason they think this is because of people like you telling them it's wrong, the poster you're replying to made an excellent point)

 

[Still Life]

You mean in the same way 'Christian' groups here in Australia took Aboriginal children from their families and 'convinced' them that their skin color and culture were inferior?

No. Some homosexual people decide that they don't want to be gay, so they seek help and are changed.

Yeah, 'decide' after they've had a constant stream of positive 'reinforcement' from society for their sexual orientation. [/sarcasm]

You have no cultural relatvitiy, do you? Do you even understand anything outside of your sheltered little world? Any idea of the cultural and social issues that come with a globally networked social milieu?

Judging from your answer -- no.

You really haven't answered my question, and you've taken license from a position of cultural privilege to use as a foundation for your views. Being Christian doesn't excuse you for using pseudo-logic.