Well just considering that this is the age of Sarah Palin, Transformers 2, and X-men origins. I wouldn't be surprised.
Are developers right to think we're stupider now than 12 years ago?
- Thread starter geldonyetich
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*grumble grumble* You complain about the state of intellectualism but when you conspire to release nanomachines that sterilize anyone under an IQ of 120, now you've gone too far *grumble grumble*Pingieking said:
Well, to quote Nixon from Futurama:
But anyway, the same can be said for gamers. Sure not all of them are like this, but a lot are. Spend 20 minutes on xbox live and you'll see.
Plus they try to appeal to the "casual" audience that seems to be all the rage these days...
...Or something like that, memories a little fuzzy on that episode.
But anyway, the same can be said for gamers. Sure not all of them are like this, but a lot are. Spend 20 minutes on xbox live and you'll see.
Plus they try to appeal to the "casual" audience that seems to be all the rage these days...
First up: there is no "stupider" and I have no clue what a universe of horses has to do with anything.geldonyetich said:
Games have gotten easier because people get tired of "running into a wall mashing X" to look for something that'll now flash every few seconds and trial-and-error gameplay design is seen as wrong. Hell, "twelve" years ago people would've complained a game was too difficult and that they didn't get their money's worth because they couldn't finish the game.
I don't think developers think we are more stupid than we were 12 years ago. Their target audience is 12 years old. Developers have this ability to tell 12 year olds what is cool. Kids today are programmed to believe that all adults want to do is play MW2 and blow shit up while talking with XBOXLive talk. That is what developers have taught 12 year olds and that is what they know.
The problem is us. We have nostalgia. We remember being 12 and thinking games were hard. We thought the writing was so much better. We were convinced that these games are awesome. Now when we play games we say, "this would be hard if I were 12. This story would appeal to me if I were 12. I'd probably enjoy this game, if I were 12." The truth though is that our games growing up were a lot better. our games had a very good balance of graphics and story. Today's games are too focused of graphics that they have no time to develop a proper story or even make interesting gameplay.
in terms of gameplay, story and difficulty; some modern developers can get 2 of 3. We do have a few gems where they get 3 of 3, and we love those games. unfortunately kids today are told that mediocrity is awesome.
Developers don't think we are stupider than we were 12 years ago. Developers just know that 12 year olds are stupider than the 12 year olds of 12 years ago.
just last week I was at Gamestop and there was a kid trying to get his mom to buy a "Mature" rated game instead of a "Teen" rated game. Kid was probably 10. Kid was saying, "But this [M rated] game is better." The SGA working at the moment said to the kid, "Why is it better?" Kid actually turned the box over and said, "because it has the violence, strong language and partial nudity." The mom rolled her eyes, and the SGA straight up told the kid, "That stuff doesn't make a game better. I have played many more great Teen games than Mature games. Mature doesn't make it better." The kid was still upset he wasn't getting an average "Mature" game, but that he was getting a really good "Teen" game.
kids are a lot stupider than we were when we were kids.
The problem is us. We have nostalgia. We remember being 12 and thinking games were hard. We thought the writing was so much better. We were convinced that these games are awesome. Now when we play games we say, "this would be hard if I were 12. This story would appeal to me if I were 12. I'd probably enjoy this game, if I were 12." The truth though is that our games growing up were a lot better. our games had a very good balance of graphics and story. Today's games are too focused of graphics that they have no time to develop a proper story or even make interesting gameplay.
in terms of gameplay, story and difficulty; some modern developers can get 2 of 3. We do have a few gems where they get 3 of 3, and we love those games. unfortunately kids today are told that mediocrity is awesome.
Developers don't think we are stupider than we were 12 years ago. Developers just know that 12 year olds are stupider than the 12 year olds of 12 years ago.
just last week I was at Gamestop and there was a kid trying to get his mom to buy a "Mature" rated game instead of a "Teen" rated game. Kid was probably 10. Kid was saying, "But this [M rated] game is better." The SGA working at the moment said to the kid, "Why is it better?" Kid actually turned the box over and said, "because it has the violence, strong language and partial nudity." The mom rolled her eyes, and the SGA straight up told the kid, "That stuff doesn't make a game better. I have played many more great Teen games than Mature games. Mature doesn't make it better." The kid was still upset he wasn't getting an average "Mature" game, but that he was getting a really good "Teen" game.
kids are a lot stupider than we were when we were kids.
Yeah, because it's more popular.
Now they have to cater to the casual gamers *cough*Wii*cough* Because of the larger base, chances are you got far more stupid people in there than there used to be.
Now they have to cater to the casual gamers *cough*Wii*cough* Because of the larger base, chances are you got far more stupid people in there than there used to be.
Y'know, I don't think people are necessarily stupider. I just think that making a deep game with an interface easy enough for a wider niche to grasp is hard, and it doesn't produce guaranteed results of better sales, and so developers by and large don't bother to try.
I say it's lack of pride in craftsmanship of games these days!
I say it's lack of pride in craftsmanship of games these days!
Hmmm It seems to me that your only real proof is SC2 the demo is out and the problems can be changed but its more of a changing of how the game works not how the developer views us.
I've not noticed games becoming easier then they were because they were not exactly hard back then, I take hard has a effort to make it difficult past games were just hard because they were complicated. Games were not thought out and made easier to get into for the average player they did not strive for ease of use they strived for what they wanted and not what the majority of consumers wanted.
So no I don't think developers think that, I think developers are trying to appeal to more people by making the game more accessible specially in the case of PC games more appeal to a larger base means more sales instead of PC hardcores pirating it instead.
I've not noticed games becoming easier then they were because they were not exactly hard back then, I take hard has a effort to make it difficult past games were just hard because they were complicated. Games were not thought out and made easier to get into for the average player they did not strive for ease of use they strived for what they wanted and not what the majority of consumers wanted.
So no I don't think developers think that, I think developers are trying to appeal to more people by making the game more accessible specially in the case of PC games more appeal to a larger base means more sales instead of PC hardcores pirating it instead.
You're the one saying that games that are in any way simplified are for "casual gamers," and that "casual = stupid;" marketers haven't said that, and developers certainly haven't. What I'm saying is that when a game costs ten million dollars to develop, you're not going to put in very many features or mechanics that are going to alienate anyone, because you need a hell of a lot of people to buy it, or else your company goes under.geldonyetich said:
Your only choice other than "sit here and take that" appears to be "vote with your dollars." If you don't like it, don't buy it, and that's all you can do (short of starting your own game developer and self-publishing your games in an effort to prove that there is still a lucrative market for compex and technical video games).
i agree with this somewhat. i don't think it's necessarily that developers and companies think we are more stupid than we were, but that they are trying to reach a new audience. i remember when in school, me and friends talking about a game was seen as nerdy. now, more people are sharing the experience with family, which tends to lead developers to try and make family games (hence the wii).orangeapples said:
however, i will say that it there does seem to be a trend of bad "fan" games out there. i am talking about the incarnations of sonic and the like. sonic and the secret rings i could not stand to play, and i loved sonic on the genesis and game gear. i understand that its hard to make a game that appeals to a new crowd AND appease the core fan group that has been with you from the beginning, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible. they could try a little harder, or at least try to do both separately (make a casual game for the masses and release a smaller, less expensive game that tugs at the core group around the same time or later). sure, it's a tightrope act, but if someone can pull it off they would be set for a while.
i think the other problem is that gimmicks are being used too much for selling points in the hopes of grabbing more people. while consumers may be looking for the next big thing, gimmicks should not be seen as the hook to keep them; that's what the gameplay and/or story is for (depends on if the story is meant to be a big part or not). you cannot sacrifice the permanency of gameplay for the transient nature of the gimmick. i mean sure, the motion sensor for the wii was an awesome idea, but that doesn't mean that every small part of the game should be motion controlled (there is the nunchuk attachment that could be used more and would make some gameplay issues go away very easily).
I don't think developers are right in doing this. I like to have a challenge in games. For instance, Half-Life was very difficult but Half-Life 2 was a breeze. Also, I'm currently playing A Link to the Past and Bioshock 2, an I find myself playing LttP a lot more because it's actually challenging and requires thought.
WE in particular are not becoming more stupid, we are just becoming diluted by the so called "casual gamers" who want a game where they can just sit down, press the same 3 buttons continuously and have their virtual penises sucked for being able to press said 3 buttons. WE want more sophisticated games; games that demand thought and true skill, but to be honest there are far more casual gamers than us. Why satisfy the die-hard fans when you can satisfy the masses? They're doing what anyone with common sense would do: going where the money is.
And so we will be constantly supplied with the simplest RPGS and most casual shooters known to mankind a lá Halo or Call of Duty, and it is us, the true gamers, who will suffer because of this, because we will eventually just get used to the feeling of mediocrity produced by the gaming industry and ultimately we will just lower our standards to the point that we're no better than the casual gamer.
And so we will be constantly supplied with the simplest RPGS and most casual shooters known to mankind a lá Halo or Call of Duty, and it is us, the true gamers, who will suffer because of this, because we will eventually just get used to the feeling of mediocrity produced by the gaming industry and ultimately we will just lower our standards to the point that we're no better than the casual gamer.
The answer is yes, the majority of people are really stupid. For example find a part of a game where its like use this one item and whatever. Destroy the item or attempt to and the games prevent that. I personally love being able to get myself stuck in places by doing incredibly dumb things. However for the most part people will do those dumb things and not want to get punished. So yes, people are dumb so games are getting dumber however hopefully with the success of the video game industry now as the main generation of gamers grow up and hopefully get more intelligent so will games.(Current target video game audience is roughly 8-30 years old, much above that and the video gamers numbers drop dramaticly for the reason of they didn't have them as kids)