We have a winner. All the people I know who are serious COD players arn't series gamers, considering they treat COD as the best game serious ever created.Amarok said:
Are FPS's dumbing down gamers?
- Thread starter Makeshift Koala
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One important point to add is the fact that these kids have got the attention span of five seconds. That's why they rather play modern FPS's, where the action is constant and simple, than games where you can do other things besides moving and shooting.
Wait, so you're arguing that the single genre that, more than any other aside from perhaps platformers, is most about navigation through virtual spaces, impairs people's ability to navigate through virtual spaces?
Most of the animosity towards Halo and COD boils down to the fact that some may simply not recognize that you don't have to think to have fun.. Anyways. Halo and COD and Half-Life(or Tf2/Portal) are vastly different in their play styles.
Halo, for instance, is fast paced hihg-octane action that requires split second decisions on the go. That doesn't make it "mindless" so much as it leaves you with little time to do some serious thinking as to the results of your actions. This might be a game synonymous with Goldeneye for Nintendo 64, if anyone has forgotten.
COD on the other hand, is just the same as Halo in the respects of fast paced action, but there are more tactical and strategic options available to you in the game. Also, the pace is not as fast as Halo, and leaves you with a bit more time to think, this is also supported by the fact that you have items or enhancements that augment the game play and allow you to worry more about whats in front of you than having to THINK about it for ten seconds and end up possibly dead.
Half-Life, and Portal's pace are set slower. Half-Life is indeed a thinkers game, but not on such a level as portal. In Half-life, the object is to use your wits to solve problems ranging from a room filled with foes to navigating deadly toxic wastelands. This means the pace can vary from a halo level, to a Portal level. But regardless of pace, there's always some way that you can manage to catch a breather in the thick of it. Portal, on the other hand, requires nothing but thinking, and even at that, it takes no rocket scientists to move a cube onto a GIANT RED BUTTON on the floor. And while the puzzles do get trickier as the game flows on, its not as ive youre straining yourself or bursting a vein to figure out a puzzle. Almost all puzzles in portal can be solved easily and with little difficulty, but that's not to say simply "not thinking" works. Portal is certainly still a game where you must look before you leap.
TF2 is somewhat similar from COD or Halo in it's pacing. The class based system means 9 different play styles (to the exception of unlockable items, maybe add about 18 styles of play) Thus the pace is set by the class that you have chosen. Pace in Tf2 can also be set by the map played. Where dustbowl may be one big pushfest, Twofort can drag on like a slug on molasses.
My point? Ease of Play != Skill/thinking
Halo, for instance, is fast paced hihg-octane action that requires split second decisions on the go. That doesn't make it "mindless" so much as it leaves you with little time to do some serious thinking as to the results of your actions. This might be a game synonymous with Goldeneye for Nintendo 64, if anyone has forgotten.
COD on the other hand, is just the same as Halo in the respects of fast paced action, but there are more tactical and strategic options available to you in the game. Also, the pace is not as fast as Halo, and leaves you with a bit more time to think, this is also supported by the fact that you have items or enhancements that augment the game play and allow you to worry more about whats in front of you than having to THINK about it for ten seconds and end up possibly dead.
Half-Life, and Portal's pace are set slower. Half-Life is indeed a thinkers game, but not on such a level as portal. In Half-life, the object is to use your wits to solve problems ranging from a room filled with foes to navigating deadly toxic wastelands. This means the pace can vary from a halo level, to a Portal level. But regardless of pace, there's always some way that you can manage to catch a breather in the thick of it. Portal, on the other hand, requires nothing but thinking, and even at that, it takes no rocket scientists to move a cube onto a GIANT RED BUTTON on the floor. And while the puzzles do get trickier as the game flows on, its not as ive youre straining yourself or bursting a vein to figure out a puzzle. Almost all puzzles in portal can be solved easily and with little difficulty, but that's not to say simply "not thinking" works. Portal is certainly still a game where you must look before you leap.
TF2 is somewhat similar from COD or Halo in it's pacing. The class based system means 9 different play styles (to the exception of unlockable items, maybe add about 18 styles of play) Thus the pace is set by the class that you have chosen. Pace in Tf2 can also be set by the map played. Where dustbowl may be one big pushfest, Twofort can drag on like a slug on molasses.
My point? Ease of Play != Skill/thinking
I think it's probably down to the cake walk that most mainstream gamers are exposed to, mostly in FPS titles.
After giving that guy the fresh water, I turned around, had a look around to see if there was anything to pick up, and found the button. I guess I was luckier than some, even though I was really studying everything in that game looking for those skill books and bobbleheads.
In third grade my parents got me a Nintendo. You know, the original, mario bros, duck hunt. Next thing I remember is Wolf 3d shareware.
Games are supposed to be fun, that's why they call them games. If you don't like shooters, fine, don't play them. They are, however, a good release after a stressful day at work. I listen to music that most of you wouldn't probably care for, but I don't listen to it for you. I have seen Fallout 3 and Mass Effect referred to in this thread. I have beaten Fallout several times, and yes, the switch to Rivet City is right there. As far as Mass Effect, I sank a good couple of hours into it and I just didn't find it fun. So I quit.
One reason I enjoy a good FPS is because getting to the rifle range is time consuming and expensive. I can shoot hundreds of rounds out of a M1 in a game for the cost of the game, while if I want to take my actual M1 to the range, I can spend that money in ammo in no time, as .30-06 is not exactly cheap.
I just got Dragon Age Origins. As I have heard, Dragon Age is to Mass Effect as Fallout 3 is to Oblivion. I'm not a die hard gamer, so don't give me too much crap on details if I am wrong. I have started a few different characters, but the story goes the same no matter what. If you choose option "A" the NPCs say 'this.' If you choose option "B" the NPCs say
'that,' and you end up in the same place anyway. Ooh, how mind blowing.
I'd venture to say that the games the real idiots play are Madden and the like. However, I am sure that PhD's out there play sport games and FPS. To assert that one is less stupid because they waste their time on one kind of video game rather than another seems like a bigger waste of time than the game itself.
Now I leave this thread and wait for the usual hate that makes me come to this forum so infrequently.
Games are supposed to be fun, that's why they call them games. If you don't like shooters, fine, don't play them. They are, however, a good release after a stressful day at work. I listen to music that most of you wouldn't probably care for, but I don't listen to it for you. I have seen Fallout 3 and Mass Effect referred to in this thread. I have beaten Fallout several times, and yes, the switch to Rivet City is right there. As far as Mass Effect, I sank a good couple of hours into it and I just didn't find it fun. So I quit.
One reason I enjoy a good FPS is because getting to the rifle range is time consuming and expensive. I can shoot hundreds of rounds out of a M1 in a game for the cost of the game, while if I want to take my actual M1 to the range, I can spend that money in ammo in no time, as .30-06 is not exactly cheap.
I just got Dragon Age Origins. As I have heard, Dragon Age is to Mass Effect as Fallout 3 is to Oblivion. I'm not a die hard gamer, so don't give me too much crap on details if I am wrong. I have started a few different characters, but the story goes the same no matter what. If you choose option "A" the NPCs say 'this.' If you choose option "B" the NPCs say
'that,' and you end up in the same place anyway. Ooh, how mind blowing.
I'd venture to say that the games the real idiots play are Madden and the like. However, I am sure that PhD's out there play sport games and FPS. To assert that one is less stupid because they waste their time on one kind of video game rather than another seems like a bigger waste of time than the game itself.
Now I leave this thread and wait for the usual hate that makes me come to this forum so infrequently.
I don't believe that the first-person shooter genre is dumbing down gamers so much as it's dumbing down gaming. First-person shooters have really lowered the standards for good games and now developers are tossing out all kinds of mediocre first-person shooters, like Section 8, for example.
Since many developers are now focusing on this genre that is suddenly super popular after the rise of Halo and the like, quality games of other genres are being made less and less, which is really just a damn shame.
Since many developers are now focusing on this genre that is suddenly super popular after the rise of Halo and the like, quality games of other genres are being made less and less, which is really just a damn shame.
Y'know. I think you may be right. I really kind of hate the new Call of Duty.
Dear Infinity Ward,
You really screwed the pooch with Modern Warfare 2, At first I leaped to your defense
"If you don't like it you can fuck off. Now I'm gonna go headshot some insurgents." That's a direct quote from ME. I understand you had a very difficult challenge to live up to COD4 was an incredible game with fantastic single player and an addictive multiplayer. Well I thought you created that and more. But after 72 hours of gameplay I've found several huge flaws.
1. Overpowered Killstreaks (Multiplayer)
2. A 7 hour single-player campaign of shitty quality. (Single Player)
3. Model 1887's (Multiplayer)
4. Javelin Glitchers (Multiplayer)
5. Marathon, Lightwieght, Commando pricks. (Multiplayer)
Now that I've reached rank 68 in the multiplayer I find that everyone is using one of these multiplayer flaws. I'm extremely frustrated by the lack of local substance it seems Infinity Ward saw that multiplayer made more money and then they killed the best fucking part... THE SINGLE PLAYER!
Did you happen to notice that Soap and Price (and Gaz-I mean Ghost) are the only characters that matter? Everyother character dies due too random insurgents, militia, or Russians? I was even happy with all the flaws because of the spit and polish that I experienced while playing but now, I wonder why I spent those precious 60 dollars.
-'T3h Merc' AKA Jordan Adrian Miller a VERY disatisfied customer.
Dear Infinity Ward,
You really screwed the pooch with Modern Warfare 2, At first I leaped to your defense
"If you don't like it you can fuck off. Now I'm gonna go headshot some insurgents." That's a direct quote from ME. I understand you had a very difficult challenge to live up to COD4 was an incredible game with fantastic single player and an addictive multiplayer. Well I thought you created that and more. But after 72 hours of gameplay I've found several huge flaws.
1. Overpowered Killstreaks (Multiplayer)
2. A 7 hour single-player campaign of shitty quality. (Single Player)
3. Model 1887's (Multiplayer)
4. Javelin Glitchers (Multiplayer)
5. Marathon, Lightwieght, Commando pricks. (Multiplayer)
Now that I've reached rank 68 in the multiplayer I find that everyone is using one of these multiplayer flaws. I'm extremely frustrated by the lack of local substance it seems Infinity Ward saw that multiplayer made more money and then they killed the best fucking part... THE SINGLE PLAYER!
Did you happen to notice that Soap and Price (and Gaz-I mean Ghost) are the only characters that matter? Everyother character dies due too random insurgents, militia, or Russians? I was even happy with all the flaws because of the spit and polish that I experienced while playing but now, I wonder why I spent those precious 60 dollars.
-'T3h Merc' AKA Jordan Adrian Miller a VERY disatisfied customer.
I think the argument that FPS is dumbing down gaming would be more applicable if every last example you give of a game which is too sophisticated for the FPS player did not have an overwhelmingly strong FPS component.
I think your criticism needs to be directed elsewhere. The best replacement would likely be that many games rely on the instant feedback of quick gratification of a violent nature. Pacing favors the instant gratification far more then the effort expended to reach that gratification making the gratification more meaningful. But I don't think this is dumbing down gaming. Its just that as games become more mainstream, there are a wider variety of people, and a percentage of these people will naturally be interested in gaming only from the instant gratification power fantasy.
I think your criticism needs to be directed elsewhere. The best replacement would likely be that many games rely on the instant feedback of quick gratification of a violent nature. Pacing favors the instant gratification far more then the effort expended to reach that gratification making the gratification more meaningful. But I don't think this is dumbing down gaming. Its just that as games become more mainstream, there are a wider variety of people, and a percentage of these people will naturally be interested in gaming only from the instant gratification power fantasy.
I think it may just be a coincidence or that your friends simply prefer linear games, because I've played many linear shooters yet I have no trouble navigating open world games. I too had that problem with Rivet City actually, it was a mixture of joy and self loathing when I saw that intercom that I had managed to walk past something like seven times.
I don't really think playing Call of Duty or Halo or Half Life or Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead really effects a person's ability to think while playing a game but constant linearity may effect the way they percieve other genre's. It's not necessarilly 'dumbing down' but it is perhaps just a sign that they are not personally into that genre.
I don't really think playing Call of Duty or Halo or Half Life or Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead really effects a person's ability to think while playing a game but constant linearity may effect the way they percieve other genre's. It's not necessarilly 'dumbing down' but it is perhaps just a sign that they are not personally into that genre.
FPS games don't create morons, but they draw morons in because of their apparent simplicity. Anybody can play an FPS. Just learn the controls and features and you'll at least do ok. I can't imagine a moron playing a more complex RPG or strategy, though. You know, those RPG's have actual storylines, characters, and stats to keep track of. FPS's are generally "see enemy, shoot him. See flag, capture it. See hill, control it." Morons typically don't like challenging themselves, so they go with the FPS.
I'll play anything from Mass Effect, which we've described in this thread as the thinker's game, to CoD, which appears to be the moron's go-to game. They're both fun so I'll play them.
A bit of aside, if you look at the Mass Effect 2 cover art, it has much more of a shooter/action appeal than a deep sci-fi game. I'm guessing that's Bioware trying to get more people to buy it, since there's so many people who get shooters. I'm also guessing Bioware's thinking "let the shooting draw them in, and have the story keep them there."
I'll play anything from Mass Effect, which we've described in this thread as the thinker's game, to CoD, which appears to be the moron's go-to game. They're both fun so I'll play them.
A bit of aside, if you look at the Mass Effect 2 cover art, it has much more of a shooter/action appeal than a deep sci-fi game. I'm guessing that's Bioware trying to get more people to buy it, since there's so many people who get shooters. I'm also guessing Bioware's thinking "let the shooting draw them in, and have the story keep them there."
Some FPS's are actually pretty hard to master but the orange box and all other half-life games take it a step further with those gaddamn puzzles. Hey i have to get across this stream and incidentally have to throw a grenade accurately through a hole the size of a pomegranate to blow the drawbrige down. Or you know...... Walk across the damn thing
No FPS's don't dumb down gamers, no game genre does. How can you say something like COD is dumbing down gamers when it's you vs other people(the toughest challenge) To navigate the maps swiftly and safely, to develop strategies for different maps/teams/gametypes/equipments, to develop the reflexes needed in fast paced FPS all these require a somewhat sharp mind. How is someone who can aim down sights and shoot you in the .5seconds you stuck your head up any less skilled or "smart" than someone who can find a button on rivet city, or who plays RPG. (something I would call a hand holding gaming exp if there ever was one)
Some people like to play slow paced games like ME, others like the challenge and speed of online play thats all there is to it.
Some people like to play slow paced games like ME, others like the challenge and speed of online play thats all there is to it.
Yeah, no joke. Rivet City, the first time you go there and you're looking at the ship, it's confusing how to get in. Common sense led me in the right direction after a momentary headscratch though.
I think it's like fast food. They want to drive up and get it and go. Sitting down in a 'fancy' place and waiting 30 minutes for better food?? No, gimme fries now! FPS gamers want to hop into a game and wham bam start shooting at something. A game that doesn't allow them to do this immediately gets almost as immediately discarded.
I've never-ever considered Fallout 3 FPS. I've never-ever played Fallout 3 in FP mode.
I think it's like fast food. They want to drive up and get it and go. Sitting down in a 'fancy' place and waiting 30 minutes for better food?? No, gimme fries now! FPS gamers want to hop into a game and wham bam start shooting at something. A game that doesn't allow them to do this immediately gets almost as immediately discarded.
I've never-ever considered Fallout 3 FPS. I've never-ever played Fallout 3 in FP mode.
Some people just don't like slower paced games. It's not as if every game that comes out is a FPS - there is more than enough variety to suit everybody's tastes.