Are games today really that bad?

[EHKOS]

I feel like the love has gone out of them. Developers used to work on a game, and put creativeness, hard work, and affection into their games. Now it's all a quick cash in. Naughty Dog is one of the only developers that I can feel still cares about their games. Even Insomniac has drifted.

 

[ramboondiea]

Writing is getting better, gradually. (Very gradually.)

I'd disagree here, again on the quality of writing of the isometric RPGs. Stuff like Planescape Torment just absolutely rapes the face out of everything written in the last five years. Metaphorically, that is.

im sure you could have picked a better example then torment, yeah it has good writing, but its choice of delivery is dire, its basically just walls of text, albeit very graphic and usually fairly interesting text but still basically like reading a novel, at least now a days game try to do a little more then just drop a crap-ton of information on you at any one time

 

[Casual Shinji]

Games have lost some of their creative freedom.

Their still good, and in some ways better (controls), but you can't help but feel like they're being constricted by their monstrous budgets.

 

[Rblade]

ofcourse they aren't. try playing an old shooter or rts and you will notice... hell no....

old games, for the most part, were ugly and had clunky controls.

take the original deus ex. for all it's merits, that game was UGLY. it really hurts the eyes. Nobody truly wants to go back in time, anyone saying with a straight face that the original doom is a better shooter then the current generation is talking out of his ass.

 

[lRookiel]

Games are becoming more cinematic because people want to see big budget movies, just paying 60$ for them and playing them for 5 hours.

I'll just leave this right here

That is a fucking amazing picture! hahaha!

P.S, Yorick rules :3

OT: Well companies nowadays stick less effort into their games if they know it will sell just as well anyway, it's all about the money!

 

[DJjaffacake]

which means if it ain't a Shooter, Sports game or "Action" RPG it probably won't sell.

It wont sell by todays standards, you mean.

Of course I meant by todays standards, what else? Titles like Terraria and Super Meat Boy even manage to sell a million and I think Bastion about 500.000, but just like movie studios want the "new Avatar" and are literally both crunching out new "Exciting 3D titles" and busy remaking every single old title to be shown in "Amazing 3D!" and get even more money, game publishers are looking for the next Call of Duty, or if they're not aiming for that at least the next Gears of War or Skyrim and it's all just pathetically sad to behold.

Which kind of leads into the OT again. Personally I dont think theres ever been a better time to be a gamer. The recent flood of generic military shooters does not hinder your enjoyment of old isometric RPGs, and whats more, a few studios are still bringing them out today. These titles are often better than what we had 8 years ago. Hardcore games are still out there, just as many, and they arent going anywhere, you just have to look a little harder because they are buried under titles like Homefront and MOH.

I mean, look at a few recent games. Assassin of Kings, Demon and Dark Souls, Bastion, Red Dead, Skyrim (admittedly that was "dumbed down" a little), the Baldurs Gate remakes, and a full host of indie titles I cant even remember the names of coming out soon that are more akin to the first Wizardry game than anything else.

Uhm, you're talking about "old isometric RPGs" (e.g. Ultima, Baldur's Gate, Planescape, Fallout, Arcanum etc., which are amongst the best titles ever released) and are comparing them to a bunch of Action-RPGs you are saying are "better than what there was 8 years ago" and you're actually being serious? Wow... and yeah I admitted in my post that there's a little upturn through Kickstarter and similar. The Baldur's Gate "Remakes" (they call them Enhanced actually) are neither new games, nor do we know if they will surpass the old showing just yet.
I mean, I loved Witcher 2 and I'm looking forward to Dark Souls but they don't have anything on those games and they ARE Action-RPGs...

I can't even take the other guy serious trying to compare the writing of Bioshock, Mass Effect and Half Life: Episode 2, basically a bunch of shooters where you shoot stuff and watch some Cutscenes to the likes of Planescape or Fallout 1 and I'm just hoping he never played them before

Wow. This was an intelligent discussion about whether new games are better than older ones, and along comes captain internet with 'herp derp you disagree with me so you must be stupid and wrong.'He prefers action rpgs, you prefer older rpgs. Neither of you is right or wrong.

OT I think games today are no better or worse, just diiferent, although my experience of older games is a bit limited in fairness. All of my favourite games have come out within the last 5 years (except Oblivion), but like i said, my experience of games is mainly recent ones.

 

[Zhukov]

I can't even take the other guy serious trying to compare the writing of Bioshock, Mass Effect and Half Life: Episode 2, basically a bunch of shooters where you shoot stuff and watch some Cutscenes to the likes of Planescape or Fallout 1 and I'm just hoping he never played them before

That would be me, and yes, apart from Arcanum, I have played those old games you're referring to.

Can't say I particularly like your implication that I cannot possibly have formed my opinion after having played them. 'Cause anyone who disagrees with you is clearly operating on incomplete information. Oh, the arrogance.

Also, "bunch of shooters where you shoot some stuff and watch some cutscenes"? Right. Unlike those "RPGs where you stab some stuff and read some dialogue". Deep.

...

Also, Planescape Torment has more cutscenes than Bioshock and HL2 Ep2 put together. Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Writing is getting better, gradually. (Very gradually.)

I'd disagree here, again on the quality of writing of the isometric RPGs. Stuff like Planescape Torment just absolutely rapes the face out of everything written in the last five years. Metaphorically, that is.

im sure you could have picked a better example then torment, yeah it has good writing, but its choice of delivery is dire, its basically just walls of text, albeit very graphic and usually fairly interesting text but still basically like reading a novel, at least now a days game try to do a little more then just drop a crap-ton of information on you at any one time

I think the main problem with Planescape: Torment's writing is that it's in these tiny text boxes that were never meant for the purpose that game uses them for - i.e., a problem with the delivery mechanism, not the writing itself. The actual writing is, IMO, easily the best I've seen in an RPG (and I know that isn't nostaliga talking, because I played it pretty recently).

However, I think that as time goes on we're seeing more games that actually have good writing, as opposed to good (for a game) writing. There always were examples of good writing in games - Tim Schafer's stuff and some iFiction come to mind - but it does legitimately seem to be getting more and more common.

 

[Skoldpadda]

They're more linear and less complex than they used to be. I know you can always cite an example from any side of the spectrum from any generation, but the way I approach this, is that when I go looking for games at the games store, I seldom find anything satisfactory anymore. Their content is just not worth the asking price anymore, and that's not even taking into account some of the ridiculous lengths some companies go DLC-wise.

This is doubly true for RPG's. Hell, they're almost extinct. What we call RPG's nowadays is but a shadow of what the genre used to be. Some of the more recent games might still be enjoyable, but they're a far cry from the old ones. I regularly browse the shelves for an unexpected nice RPG and always come up empty-handed. I've played them all. Every single one. Barely anything new comes out that's any good.

Popular RTS franchises, too, became less complex overtime. Look at what happened to the Command & Conquer series, and those games were already fairly simple to begin with, and then you still get rid of base-building?

I tried to like Batman: Arkham Asylum, I LOVED its atmosphere, but I simply couldn't cope with all the hand-holding. These games present me with violence, sexual undertones, and often mature themes, and then go and treat me like a dumb kid by telling me when to duck to avoid getting shot in the face and attaching a punch+flying kick+making enemy balls explode combo to the Y button.

The above posted pic is highly accurate. I remember playing Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, and getting lost more than once.

It's all subjective and a matter of taste, and I don't mean to demean the fun you guys have with your new games, but for me personally, the state of things is really bad. I still play the old classics, and still enjoy them a lot, but when I try a new one, it more often than not will bore me. And I repeat, there are exceptions, and the market has always been mostly shit. It's just that exceptional quality has become even rarer, for those who don't give a crap about graphics.

Give me substance over style any day.

 

[Imbechile]

I was going to write my thoughts, but I don't have to. Basically this:

They're more linear and less complex than they used to be. I know you can always cite an example from any side of the spectrum from any generation, but the way I approach this, is that when I go looking for games at the games store, I seldom find anything satisfactory anymore. Their content is just not worth the asking price anymore, and that's not even taking into account some of the ridiculous lengths some companies go DLC-wise.

This is doubly true for RPG's. Hell, they're almost extinct. What we call RPG's nowadays is but a shadow of what the genre used to be. Some of the more recent games might still be enjoyable, but they're a far cry from the old ones. I regularly browse the shelves for an unexpected nice RPG and always come up empty-handed. I've played them all. Every single one. Barely anything new comes out that's any good.

Popular RTS franchises, too, became less complex overtime. Look at what happened to the Command & Conquer series, and those games were already fairly simple to begin with, and then you still get rid of base-building?

I tried to like Batman: Arkham Asylum, I LOVED its atmosphere, but I simply couldn't cope with all the hand-holding. These games present me with violence, sexual undertones, and often mature themes, and then go and treat me like a dumb kid by telling me when to duck to avoid getting shot in the face and attaching a punch+flying kick+making enemy balls explode combo to the Y button.

The above posted pic is highly accurate. I remember playing Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, and getting lost more than once.

It's all subjective and a matter of taste, and I don't mean to demean the fun you guys have with your new games, but for me personally, the state of things is really bad. I still play the old classics, and still enjoy them a lot, but when I try a new one, it more often than not will bore me. And I repeat, there are exceptions, and the market has always been mostly shit. It's just that exceptional quality has become even rarer, for those who don't give a crap about graphics.

Give me substance over style any day.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Only in the mishandled support-wise area. As in, lack of dedicated servers and proper support for platforms. The games themselves are generally fine.

 

[veloper]

Bad? Only by 1 criterium that has been missing from this discussion sofar: challenge.

Games are getting easier on average. The action in games nowadays requires less precision, reflexes and muscle memory and the tactics and strategies for games that still feature them, have become shallower and dumber.

On the action side challenges like Dark Souls and Super Meatboy have become the exception now. Compare to Nintendo hard 2 decades ago.

For lack of depth I offer Civ5, Galciv2 and Simcity societies and compare to Civ4 BTS, Master of Orion 2 and Simcity 4.

I'm ambivalent about the action. I prefer the Meatboy approach to the clumsy and unfair Nintento hard of old, but I don't want my games to become Kirby epic yarn either and that's the direction we're all heading.

The decline of strategy is the worst one for me. Playing a turn-based strategy game without depth is just going through the motions.

 

[Legion]

The problem we are seeing now more than in the past is that developers are working harder on cashing in on big sellers as opposed to coming up with new things. Obviously before people would still do it, but now it's reaching a level that's almost ridiculous.

Call of Duty has a huge market, and as such, people are always trying to make a 'COD killer', and the same goes for WOW and other such things. Think a few years back how many released in just one year we had for Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

Then there are the developers who change the core aspect of a series mid-way through in order to try and grab a slice of the action from other developers. Think Bioware and their increasing leaning towards creating Hollwood blockbuster-style games.

That's not to say that originality isn't still there, but it very rarely reaches the critical acclaim of the copy-paste shooters or the never ending sequels.

 

[ramboondiea]

snippity snip snip

the problem with reading a novel is the fact that I am in fact not reading a book, I am playing a game, which is supposed to be an interactive medium, so having to suddenly stop playing a game go get my reading glasses and sitting through page after page of exposition is not the expectation. games now a days do in fact convey the story better, say what you like about cut-scenes but they sure show what the developer was trying to do.

and there are still plenty of games that offer more choice, but the reason its not seen as much is due to the sheer cost of producing games now adays. multiple quest outcomes get difficult to code with numerous variable flying around. and its not like those "older" games didn't suffer due to all those variable, most of those games have numerous fan patches to get them into playable states, at-least to days games are usually playable out of the box