Are mainstream devs deliberately discouraging women from gaming?

[Fleetfiend]

I don't mean to go into tin foil hat territory here but as someone who has been gaming for a very long time it almost feels like we are going backwards with gender acceptance in games (outside of Bioware.) ...

I dunno about you, but I still got a bit of that feeling from Mass Effect (3 in particular), albeit to a smaller extent. For femshep, you are given six total romance options in the third game. Four of them are females, and you can't romance one of the males unless you romanced him in the second game.

 

[modularstar]

Just adding a small, alternate look to the debate; Guys tend to like thinking that games are their 'thing'. I mention playing anything reasonably 'hardcore' (as opposed to say, iOS games or facebook games, which seem to be what women are generally 'restricted' to) like the Elder Scrolls/Bioshock/Hitman, which are a few of my favourites, and I have genuinely scoffed at by male fans of those series. I don't know how averse guys are to thinking that girls enjoy the same games in general, but my experience hasn't been good.
I think that the industry would rather keep it's loyal male fanbase, rather than risk appearing to cater to the female aswell, because it seems weaker...

 

[Fappy]

Wow, I am surprised this thread is still going. Way to touch on a hot-button issue Jessica >.>

There are a lot of brand new posters cropping up in here.

 

[OneOfTheMichael's]

Well males are the main demographic when it comes to gaming. And at least we aren't as bad back when some games were just offensive and sexist interactive videos.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Wow, I am surprised this thread is still going. Way to touch on a hot-button issue Jessica >.>

There are a lot of brand new posters cropping up in here.

Unfortunately a lot of them seem to be using the old demographic excuse, which is really just a self perpetuating problem.

I think maybe I was a bit silly to put 'deliberate' in my title as I'm not sure that's what I was getting at. It just seems like devs always have some sort of excuse these days to get around pandering to men. They say things like 'Strong female characters don't fit the lore or the setting' when sometimes they are the ones who have decided that lore or setting. Sometimes these games aren't even set on Earth but somehow a medieval setting automatically means women are in the kitchen.

It's also annoying to have companies say you aren't important due to demographic when you have been gaming and buying their games since before some of their male customers were born...

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

I dont see why this is such a big deal with people lately, seems some wont rest until everything in the world is politicaly correct, and how dull it would be.

Actually, I think it would be a far more interesting world, (assuming that becoming politically correct wasn't just disguising underlying prejudice) since we'd get the benefit of a lot more perspectives on life and society.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

I can guess. I'm pretty certain female gamers wouldn't mind a female lead that is strong, intelligent and confident. It seems obvious to me but ultimately I'm just guessing. I'm guessing because I'm not a woman. It takes a woman to know and define women fantasies. The best I can do as a male is hypothesize and resist my base urge to give them triple Ds and as little clothing as possible.

Women need to become more involved in the industry. Build and show us what you want because, obviously, males are unable to deliver. And getting involved will be tough because of how male-dominated the field is, but it needs to be done if women want to be consistently well represented and catered to.

I don't think they need to guess, they can get a women-only focus group to advise on the matter surely.. Waiting for women to get more involved in the games industry (though they are a fast growing demographic apparently), sounds like yet another excuse for not putting in a little hard work now..

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

Before you say that being a Feminist is not a bad thing, perhaps you should look at the evidence that says,

Being a Feminist, -is- a bad thing.

and this isn't demonization, this is just plain and simple facts about what the Feminist Movement is about, and the people who follow them.

http://www.avoiceformen.com

Yeah, no bias there folks.. (/sarcasm)

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'vre always imagined an assasins creed with a kickass main charachter who happens to be female..who has to work TWICE as hard to prove her worth as an assasin, who has to endure the sexism of her era and the stress of..well being an assas..god that would be awsome

and inaccurate and unbelievable given the background [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin] of the first game.

 

[Vault101]

I'vre always imagined an assasins creed with a kickass main charachter who happens to be female..who has to work TWICE as hard to prove her worth as an assasin, who has to endure the sexism of her era and the stress of..well being an assas..god that would be awsome

and inaccurate and unbelievable given the background [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin] of the first game.

nah..I dont buy it

not when In brotherhood and revelations you have women running around in their white hoods...hell even ezios sister gets to join the secret club

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'vre always imagined an assasins creed with a kickass main charachter who happens to be female..who has to work TWICE as hard to prove her worth as an assasin, who has to endure the sexism of her era and the stress of..well being an assas..god that would be awsome

and inaccurate and unbelievable given the background [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin] of the first game.

nah..I dont buy it

not when In brotherhood and revelations you have women running around in their white hoods...hell even ezios sister gets to join the secret club

.....go back a read what I typed. I made no mention about the Italian sequel, just the first game that stared a Syrian character who belonged to a Shia Islamic group [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis] that followed a certain path [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari].

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'vre always imagined an assasins creed with a kickass main charachter who happens to be female..who has to work TWICE as hard to prove her worth as an assasin, who has to endure the sexism of her era and the stress of..well being an assas..god that would be awsome

and inaccurate and unbelievable given the background [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin] of the first game.

nah..I dont buy it

not when In brotherhood and revelations you have women running around in their white hoods...hell even ezios sister gets to join the secret club

.....go back a read what I typed. I made no mention about the Italian sequel, just the first game that stared a Syrian character who belonged to a Shia Islamic group [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis] that followed a certain path [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari].

Isn't there a female assassin in the first game too? She's Altair's lover if I remember correctly.

(God that's weird to type I named one of my cats after him..)

Edit: Oh sorry she's a templar but she does seem to know assassin moves.

Also the fact that there are female assassins later in the series kind of negates your point sorry.

(Again the dev's decide what the lore is of their universe so if they decide that women can't be assassins it's down to them, no one else.

And therefore I find it irritating that yet again they are excluding women.)

 

[Vault101]

I'vre always imagined an assasins creed with a kickass main charachter who happens to be female..who has to work TWICE as hard to prove her worth as an assasin, who has to endure the sexism of her era and the stress of..well being an assas..god that would be awsome

and inaccurate and unbelievable given the background [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashshashin] of the first game.

nah..I dont buy it

not when In brotherhood and revelations you have women running around in their white hoods...hell even ezios sister gets to join the secret club

.....go back a read what I typed. I made no mention about the Italian sequel, just the first game that stared a Syrian character who belonged to a Shia Islamic group [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismailis] that followed a certain path [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari].

but Im not talking about the first game....I saw there were no female assasins in that one..which was fine

when they start being more eaqual opertunity later...even in ezios time..then I fail to see why it would be "that" much of an issue

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

[

Isn't there a female assassin in the first game too? She's Altair's lover if I remember correctly.

Oh sorry she's a templar

Making my point for me. Women were not part of the Nizari Ismailis(i.e. Assassins). So the idea that Vault101 had about some hollywoodized story of a women who proves that she can make it in male dominated/run/controlled/organized group of Islam is hilariously awful.

Sorry if I come off as a jerk but the idea that Vault101 proposed, reminds me too much of other pathetic campy stories like The Help or Remember the Titans(if you switch sexism and racism).

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

but Im not talking about the first game....I saw there were no female assasins in that one..which was fine

when they start being more eaqual opertunity later...even in ezios time..then I fail to see why it would be "that" much of an issue

Fair enough, for a second I thought you were referring to the first one, which made me wonder if you were serious.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Making my point for me. Women were not part of the Nizari Ismailis(i.e. Assassins). So the idea that Vault101 had about some hollywoodized story of a women who proves that she can make it in male dominated/run/controlled/organized group of Islam is hilariously awful.

Edit: Nvm I thought you were against the idea in general not just in the first game

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Making my point for me. Women were not part of the Nizari Ismailis(i.e. Assassins). So the idea that Vault101 had about some hollywoodized story of a women who proves that she can make it in male dominated/run/controlled/organized group of Islam is hilariously awful.

Yeah but it's not...since there are female assassins in AC2...

It just seems to be a another case of men being ridiculously overprotective of what they see as their domain.

As I said to Vault101, if your referring to the sequels, fair enough, but I can't take your suggestions serious if your referring to the first game.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

On the topic of genders and/or certain minorities not being represented well in video games, what about trans people? The only examples I can think of are Birdo in Super Mario Bros. 2 and that woman in Catherine. Although some may see that's segregating and shouldn't be a real factor anyway, unless it's a focus of the plot.

 

[Danzavare]

Spoiler: A man that is popular with women

Spoiler: A female character popular with men

Do you see the difference? tip...chest area.

Generally scantily clad females don't bother me so much as long as we have some equally ridiculous costumes for males. Ivy in SoulCalibur doesn't bother me because we have characters like Voldo, Kilik and Maxi. (As well as the means to customise our own ridiculous and/or scantily clad outfits) Why? Because it's a lot easier to accept such silliness when it's part of the world. In a game like Sacred 2 however, it's just plain jarring to have men equip armour while women equip gogo-boots.

Judging by the above quote I want to play men that women like. I'm a male, not a dimwit. I don't like the hyper-masculine caricature that passes as a 'real male' in many games. It's dull, it's repetitive and it's uninteresting. Likewise the overly sexualised female feels fake, inhuman and in more recent cases, off-putting. (Slutty pirate woman from DA2.)

In games that give you a predetermined protagonist I have no problem playing a female as long as she's given complexity (and isn't driven by said 'real male').

Overall I think it's just because developers think they're trying to take the 'safe option' by sticking to what's apparently tried and true. I don't like it either personally. To me it feels less like catering to men and more like catering to some abstract notion of what men should want.