Are Men Bullying Female Gamers?

[DrOswald]

Ok, so there are two possibilities here.

These guys are being legit sexist, and especially assholish sexist to boot. They are a bunch of total jerks and the only reason they shouldn't be pushed out into traffic is because it would traumatize the poor bus driver who ran them over.

On the other hand... It is possible that these guys are not being sexist assholes, but it is you and your girlfriend that are the problem. Let me explain.

In gaming groups there is always one person with more social power than all the rest. It might be because this is the person that buys the pizza, this is the person that owns the games, or this is the person who is the common friend (everyone is friends with this person, but not necessarily with everyone or anyone else.) This person has the most power in the group - they typically get the deciding vote on what is played, how, and when. They more or less run the game group. This is not a bad thing under normal circumstances. Everyone is in the game group because they are having fun with what is being done in the game group, and this natural leader is doing a good job of choosing games based on the group preference, he chooses good times for game night, etc. It all works out great.

So everything is fine. Except this person has a significant other. There is an old adage: love is blind. It is very difficult to accurately assess the faults of your significant other, especially from the perspective of someone else. The make the matter worse, this significant other has a great deal of sway over the defacto leader of the group. So, unless both the leader and the significant other are very careful the inevitable result is that the significant other exercises influence over the group to their own advantage, usually at a cost to the group. Example: Everyone wants to play civ V, but this significant other wants to play smash bros. So you play smash bros. Everyone wants to watch The Matrix, but this significant other wants to watch gladiator. So you watch gladiator. There is a conflict between the significant other and another person in the group and the leader gangs up against the other person in defense of their significant other.

And that is just what happens when this significant other exercises the influence they have over this person. Sometimes there are just basic personality conflicts and they are never going to get along. Sometimes the significant other is just an asshole and the leader just can't see it.

You are the defacto leader of this group because you made the club. Are you letting your girlfriend have influence over you? How often does she get her way? When there is a conflict with her and someone else do you always take her side?

Do you see how this can lead to resentment and outright hostility? They might like you just fine but see your girlfriend as this manipulative jerk that uses her influence over you to get her way all the time.

In my experience sexism in gaming groups manifests as condescension and inappropriate actions (creepin), not outright hostility ("she is such a *****.") I have never seen it manifest as a strait "girls should not be allowed" statement, ever, in my life, even when I was in junior high playing mario kart. Did they actually say, in plain words, that she should not be allowed because she is a girl? Or are you inferring it from their behavior towards what is probably the only girl in the club?

In addition, the pattern of an initial conflict, a period of peace, and then a gradual rise in hostility and resentment is very common in the second situation but not in the first. Sexism does not grow and spread over the short term. If a sexist person can be persuaded to shut up and stand having a girl in the group for a few weeks then it is unlikely that they will make a fuss about it later. The problem usually returns in the form of passive condescension against the woman.

But hostility and resentment will grow over time when there continues to be perceived unfairness. After the initial conflict people will tend to just hope the situation will get better and they shut up for a while. When it doesn't that is when the real hostility starts. In all probability you have already made it clear that you will take your girlfriends side in any and all conflict, which just makes it worse. What you perceive as sexism might be growing hostility and resentment due to your constant favoritism of your girlfriend over everyone else.

In either case, the immediate solution is the same: either kick out the offenders or leave the club or start a new one. If these guys are sexist assholes nothing you can do will change their behavior, and if the problem is you and your girlfriend then your best bet is finding people that can stand you two.

 

[DarkRawen]

Why'd that one guy get a warning? Seems kinda unfair.

As for OP, just kick them out of the club or try and talk to them again.

As for your girlfriends question, a lot of gamer guys don't like girls in general. A lot of them were likely bullied by girls for liking games. Before someone says anything, I'm not saying ALL gamer guys were bullied, or that ALL girls bullied people, just that SOME people were bullied for liking games. This can apply to BOTH genders, so no one start saying "ERMAGERD I WASN'T/DIDN'T BULLY UR WRONG". I personally don't trust women in general either due to this. Seriously, I was just talking with friends and they'd come over and start shit. Girls are mean yo. (inb4 banned)

Being bullied doesn't give anyone the right to treat unrelated people, men or women, like that, though. While it might be an explanation, it's certainly not an excuse, which it kind of seem like you're using it as (if not, ignore this). While it can be understandable in some situations, generalizing a large amount of people and treating them badly because of past experiences is unacceptable, and the least people can do is admit that.

OP: I don't think "men are bullying female gamers" as much as some people can't get over themselves, and takes it out on whoever seems the best. A single female within a group would be an easy target for small-minded people, and those who are afraid of being left outside might join in or do nothing to stop it to "fit" into the group. It seems to be basic, immature behaviour. I don't really think there's enough information on the college-group thing to comment on the situation beyond what others have, if people there are being jerks for no reason, putting them in their place or simply ditching them would be the best.

 

[Scow2]

You made the club. Are you not club leader? Can you not ban the offending members?

 

[sanquin]

Sounds to me like those other gamers in the club are getting uncomfortable with a girl 'intruding' on what they (maybe subconsciously) thought would be a boy club. Sounds to me like they have social issues with girls in general, not with girl gamers in particular.

What I would do: Kick any asshole out of the club, and report it to whatever school official you report to. As in, report that person X got kicked out because of Y sexist remark or insult. Even if that leaves you with only you two in your club for a while, sooner or later more like-minded people should show interest in the club.

 

[Karadalis]

I love peoples responses here...

No dont talk to the people you have known for quite a while and are on friendly terms with... just kick them out.

Do not show them that their fears are wrong and that a girlfriend wont ruin the club.. show them that their fears are right.. that a girl did infact ruin the group by having them kicked out because of her (in their eyes)

Dont you people realize that with a "kick them out" behavior OP would just confirm these peoples biases and make them react even more extreme in the future?

How about OP actually gets smart... and asks HIS OWN FRIENDS AND CLUBMEMBERS WHATS THE PROBLEM... you know.. like a normal person would do?

And thats why i believe that this whole thing seems like its made up.. who in their right mind would prefer the opinion of anonimous people on the internet over their own group they socialize with in real life?

And if OP and the members of the club are not on friendly terms... what was the fucking point of the gaming club again?

I call shenanigans on this whole story as just another lame ass attempt of stirring up trouble.

Youre telling me that you have a girlfriend but you need the opinion of people you dont know over your own friends and family who should be the real persons to ask for advice?

OP has 12 posts.. of wich 5 are in this topic.. and 2 are in another thread he started about male gamers bullying his girlfriend 4 months ago...

HE EXACT SAME TOPIC of people bullying his "girlfriend" for crying out loud! At that time there wasnt even a "gaming club" or "friends" involved.. his girlfriend just randomly got bullied by male gamers aparantly.

Also said thread didnt even got past the first page.

I think its quite clear what OP tries to do here. And it has nothing to do with his girlfriend or his club that might very well exist only in his mind.

 

[Lejsen]

Hello. I recently posted a question about advice for my Girlfriend and I got a lot of responses from you all. She was really excited that these people gave her this advice. I recently started a "Video Game Club" at my College and some people started saying that my girlfriend shouldn't be allowed because she's a girl.
I talked to them about their behavior and it got better for a while... but then it just got worse. They started calling her a B**ch and other names. My girlfriend called me and asked if I could post this topic on the forums. She wanted me to do it because she was scared to post anything at all.
She was afraid she might be cyber-bullied.
So I need your help; What should we do? What should SHE do? What can I do to help her?
My Girlfriend wanted to include her own words; "So many people think that girl gamers either horrible, lazy, or sluts. Why do they think that way? And I'm not unskilled either! I won a Super Smash Bros. Melee tournament event at our friend's house. Kirby was who I chose, and people made fun of me for it." She really is a gem. Anyways, I want your opinions.

You made the club, why tolerate this behavior? Ban offenders, promote good behavior.

 

[regalphantom]

First of all, if any members of the club are insulting, bullying, abusing, or otherwise alienating another member, as the leader of the club you have a responsibility to remove them from the club. It doesn't matter whether or not the person who is being bullied is your roommate, girlfriend, or some random individual that you barely know, any individual who engages in abusive behaviour and refuses to cease it should be removed from the group. They have no right to deny your girlfriend entry to the club due to her gender as they do to deny somebody entry because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, or any other factor.

If there are concerns that you are showing bias towards your girlfriend, bring in an external, UNBIASED arbiter. Judging by the fact that you mentioned that the club is at your college I'm going to assume that it is officially sanctioned by the school, and thus you will probably have access to some sort of services, such as an external arbiter if one is required. The odds are that if members are being misogynistic, they won't have any true recourse when it comes to arbitration. If they persist and start harassing you, involve the police, as harassment is a crime.

The simple truth is that dickheads will be dickheads, and that all you can do in response to them is play by the rules and have them removed. Since I'm assuming you are the president of this club, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to act regarding this. You have to act in a manner that is both harsh and decisive, but also fair. It's one of the challenges of leadership, which is knowing how to approach a conflict and resolve it, and if you refuse to lay down the law the issue will only get worse.

Also, your title is blatant click-bait. I would strongly suggest that you have a more accurate and less polarizing title in the future. "Male members of my video-game club are bullying female members" would be more accurate and seem less like you are inciting a heated argument.

 

[Vigormortis]

If I were you, I'd simply distance myself from the group and start a new club, preferably with the aid of my girlfriend. And, to further distance us from the other group, I'd be sure to make the mantra of "all inclusive" front and center for the new club. One of the first things people should think of when seeing your new club is that it's offering a friendly environment for anyone and everyone to come together and enjoy video games. To enjoy them without the worry of antagonism or cruel judgements from other members.

Keeping up communication with members is also key. This way you and the other members can work towards either stifling hateful behavior or removing it from the group entirely. Make it a priority to let everyone know that the club is meant for fun, not fighting.

 

[Creator002]

Your girlfriend has nothing to worry about when it comes to posting on this forum. While some of us can be pretentious or sound like assholes, we're usually pretty accepting of all people.

Nothing else I can really say than what's already been said.
I think that maybe booting any assholes you have in the club out might be your best option, but I don't know much about it, so I can't honestly say.

 

[Erttheking]

A lot of people have been saying things like "They're not sexist, they just say sexist things to get women uncomfortable." I seriously have to ask...what's the difference? If you're willing to do and say sexist things to women just to degrade them, you sound like a pretty sexist person to me.

 

[Erttheking]

Your girlfriend has nothing to worry about when it comes to posting on this forum. While some of us can be pretentious or sound like assholes, we're usually pretty accepting of all people.

Nothing else I can really say than what's already been said.
I think that maybe booting any assholes you have in the club out might be your best option, but I don't know much about it, so I can't honestly say.

I don't know. I still haven't forgotten the asexuality thread, where people who identified as it and other sexual minorities (Like demi-sexual) were special snowflakes or that no one having babies would result in the end of the human race.

I am not making this up.

 

[Creator002]

While some of us can be pretentious or sound like assholes, we're usually pretty accepting of all people.

I don't know. I still haven't forgotten the asexuality thread, where people who identified as it and other sexual minorities (Like demi-sexual) were special snowflakes or that no one having babies would result in the end of the human race.

I am not making this up.

I guess you can modify what's left in my post's quote to "sometimes we are pretentious and assholes."
In any case, I don't think his girlfriend would get much flak, if any. From a couple of assumptions I'm making, she's a cis-gendered, straight female. Nothing close to a "special snowflake" mentioned. Some of our most popular residents are female too. Vault101 comes to mind quickly.

But I get what you mean. Fortunately, the rules here on The Escapist are pretty tough compared to other forums and complete dickheads are punished somewhat consistently (from what I've seen). There's always going to be those that think anything out of the norm is attention seeking and there's nothing that can really be done about it, though that's hardly a justification.

 

[PikaPika2]

Hello.
I've recently talked to that group of people and they apologized to both of us. Turns out they were just a bit sore that they lost. I can get like that too, though. I guessed that makes me a bit of a hypocrite. Whoops.
I have nevertheless disbanded the Club.
As the president of the club, before it went to total Anarchy, I gathered the group at my dorm room and played Super Smash Bros. Brawl one last time. But this time, we played through Adventure mode: The Subspace Emissary. We took turns playing, and eventually became a group of friends again.
But then Tabbu came along. We got a bit angry at each other. But we all had a good laugh about it.
Thus the Club reunited.

 

[Karadalis]

Hello.
I've recently talked to that group of people and they apologized to both of us. Turns out they were just a bit sore that they lost. I can get like that too, though. I guessed that makes me a bit of a hypocrite. Whoops.
I have nevertheless disbanded the Club.
As the president of the club, before it went to total Anarchy, I gathered the group at my dorm room and played Super Smash Bros. Brawl one last time. But this time, we played through Adventure mode: The Subspace Emissary. We took turns playing, and eventually became a group of friends again.
But then Tabbu came along. We got a bit angry at each other. But we all had a good laugh about it.
Thus the Club reunited.

Aaaaand thats a nice fairy tale you came up with here. Has something 90s sitcommish to it.

As i stated before you created a topic allmost identical to this one 4 months ago, allready claiming there that your girlfriend was being bullied by male gamers even thought you didnt went into much detail.

Then you start this one claiming that this time the male gamers that bully your girlfriend happen to be your own clubmembers.

Its kinda hard to belief that your girlfriend was bullied for 4 months straight and then suddenly everything turns out peachy by just playing a round of super smash brothers now dont you think?

To put it into imgur terms: "OP is a big phat phony"

 

[verdant monkai]

No they aren't

Some people are. Some of them have penises. But men as whole are not bullying all female gamers.

Its not as dramatic as some make out.

 

[the_dramatica]

Iirc most college gaming clubs are very casual. There isn't much of a point of joining one other than sheer boredom.

I would just play with her privately. She's not missing out on any networking opportunities.

Also be sure to not over value sharing hobbies in a relationship. Other things should come first, if they can.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Your girlfriend has nothing to worry about when it comes to posting on this forum. While some of us can be pretentious or sound like assholes, we're usually pretty accepting of all people.

Nothing else I can really say than what's already been said.
I think that maybe booting any assholes you have in the club out might be your best option, but I don't know much about it, so I can't honestly say.

I don't know. I still haven't forgotten the asexuality thread, where people who identified as it and other sexual minorities (Like demi-sexual) were special snowflakes or that no one having babies would result in the end of the human race.

I am not making this up.

Thinking back on that thread, it hasn't killed my bizarrely positive opinion of this community, of course there were a few insulting and judgmental people, but those individuals got smacked with a mod hammer. On the whole, I believe good discussion came from it's existence and I've actually seen the topic come up a few more times in various different threads [footnote](when appropriate)[/footnote] since.

Even though we have some heated gender debate. I like to believe the majority of people here are decent human beings. I've never personally seen the classic immature responses to the existence of female gamers on these forums. I've never been told to "get back in the kitchen" even jokingly[footnote]at least not a joke made in bad taste[/footnote], I've never been asked for pictures to prove I'm female or been quizzed to show I'm really a gamer. The most I've ever dealt with here specifically are a few awkward moments from users who are now banned.

--------------------

Aaaaand thats a nice fairy tale you came up with here. Has something 90s sitcommish to it.

As i stated before you created a topic allmost identical to this one 4 months ago, allready claiming there that your girlfriend was being bullied by male gamers even thought you didnt went into much detail.

Then you start this one claiming that this time the male gamers that bully your girlfriend happen to be your own clubmembers.

Its kinda hard to belief that your girlfriend was bullied for 4 months straight and then suddenly everything turns out peachy by just playing a round of super smash brothers now dont you think?

To put it into imgur terms: "OP is a big phat phony"

Regardless of whether the OP is making up a story or telling the truth, does it really matter in this case? This topic is pretty one sided as far as I can see, so if OP made it to badge fish for example, This isn't a very fiery way to do it.

 

[Saltyk]

Well, you started the club, right? That makes you the founder or President. If they don't respect her, and assuming this isn't non-serious trash talk or teasing, kick them out. Draft rules for the club that include such things, while acknowledging that some trash talk is okay, but needs to be understood as all in good fun by both parties.

I make that exception as my friends and I regularly tease each other. Hell, I regularly call one of my best friends a douche or douche-bag, but he's one of the best people you will ever meet. And he clearly understands that I'm joking when I do so.

I'm well aware of people teasing and insulting women. While playing with a group of friends (including a woman) we entered a lobby and some guy said, "Man, if I sounded like you, I wouldn't talk. You sound like a girl." We told him that she was before continuing the game. Best part was that in the end he asked to join our Clan and we quickly discussed it and shot the idea down because of that jerk remark. I guess you shouldn't be a jerk to people in online games...

I'm also aware of girls who seem to think they are special because they are gamers. Seriously, had an alleged girl in a MMO general chat start telling everyone she was a girl. I started referring to her as a "School of Fish" in General Chat. Got some laughs out of that.

 

[Spearmaster]

There is so little information in your OP that I cant really see how anyone can comment on it with any useful information.

We don't know your girlfriends behavior in said club. We don't know the size of the club or who is in it. We don't know specifics on what led to their desire to exclude your girlfriend or the name calling. YOU say its because shes a girl but that's just hearsay and possibly an over simplification of actual events. We aren't even hearing this from your girlfriend...because why? She needs your protection?
Now the name calling is because they were sore that they lost...I thought you said it was because she is a girl?

Sorry to be THAT guy but it sounds like you were trying to make this about something its not, not only that but make something out of nothing. There are enough real problems that women face without people coming up with these trumped up accusations of "men bullying female gamers." It reeks of dishonesty and I don't know if I'm more offended at that or the number of people that bought it without question.