Are Men Bullying Female Gamers?
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If they are from Australia and the UK, secondary education is refereed to as College and tertiary is University or TAFE. So yeah, 14 definitely believable.seventy two said:
I also think the warning was because it was an insult, slight or "attack" against OP specifically, Escapist mods give ya a slap for the kinda thing.
Onto OP's post, either A: ditch the club, or B: find out if this whole 'girl stigma' is coming from one person or something. Generally there's at least one or two knob jockeys that are a bit too high off the testosterone, and love sausage fests for... reasons.
Captacha: Sharp Stick
Shush, don't reveal Plan C yet!
If it's your club, you have to grow a spine and chew people out or kick them. Since you didn't do this, they will walk all over you. I assume they know she's your girlfriend, right? Either way, that's disrespectful and not to be tolerated. Start a new club and lay down the law early.
Even if you subscribe to the dubious idea that the internet HAS to have trolls for some reason nobody's made clear, that doesn't fly in real ****** life. People don't troll to each other's faces. Obviously, these guys have no fear of being shamed or punched. Why the hell not? Did nobody raise them? Make them aware that they're not walking around in a chat-room, consequence-free.
Even if you subscribe to the dubious idea that the internet HAS to have trolls for some reason nobody's made clear, that doesn't fly in real ****** life. People don't troll to each other's faces. Obviously, these guys have no fear of being shamed or punched. Why the hell not? Did nobody raise them? Make them aware that they're not walking around in a chat-room, consequence-free.
You're in college. You're adults. There's no excuse for this kind of behavior. Dismiss them from your club and report them to student affairs. Part of leadership is knowing when it's time for the hammer to come down on people who are being disruptive and hostile: it's your community that you've created, and if the members of that community aren't contributing to the good of the group or to your vision for the community, then you have every right to show them the door.
This isn't high school where disciplinary policy is built around the fact that there's going to be some teenage angst. Adults who harass each other end up fired, sued, or in jail. Being penalized by the college will be a valuable learning experience for them to realize that bullying is not okay before they're out in the world in a position to face employer backlash or criminal penalties.
This isn't high school where disciplinary policy is built around the fact that there's going to be some teenage angst. Adults who harass each other end up fired, sued, or in jail. Being penalized by the college will be a valuable learning experience for them to realize that bullying is not okay before they're out in the world in a position to face employer backlash or criminal penalties.
"Actually, it's about ethics in college student club leadership".psijac said:
There has to be more context then this, I don't even think this sort of thing is possible.PikaPika2 said:
People don't just hate someone for no reason.
It is possible you got an MGTOW nest but this can't be normal, no sane man goes: men, there's a vagina here gtfo vagina.
I think, in quite plan terms they might hate her for being an arsehole, it's possible they guys are betafag assholes (so many that guy threads from /tg/) but you should really consider this.
I already dislike her, this sort of thing is sort of a red flag.
I mean playing Kirby.... man what an asshole.
I kid I kid.
but seriously this sentiment is bad, Perhaps It's been a couple bad experiences with "girl gamers", but the type of people that identity with that label are girls first gamers second.
I know what I said inevitably sounds sexist but let me finish, I know a lot of people that are female gamers that are gamers first, they focus on being gamers and the sex does not actually factor in, just the game matters. These people are fucking great, as great as any other gamer.
and I can assure you that any person that puts external politics/misc ideals into gaming is inherently toxic. They paint everything by by that perspective rather then absorbing the media willingly. It's like those educational or christian games, terrible, and forced on the merit of their strain.
but seriously, if you have full quotes as to why those guys said those things, that would be great.
It'd allow me to give you my full opinion.
[edit]also, a thread name like that is just rude. using totalities is bad, there will never be a majority of sexist gamers...EVER.[edit]
I know what I said inevitably sounds sexist but let me finish, I know a lot of people that are female gamers that are gamers first, they focus on being gamers and the sex does not actually factor in, just the game matters. These people are fucking great, as great as any other gamer.
and I can assure you that any person that puts external politics/misc ideals into gaming is inherently toxic. They paint everything by by that perspective rather then absorbing the media willingly. It's like those educational or christian games, terrible, and forced on the merit of their strain.
but seriously, if you have full quotes as to why those guys said those things, that would be great.
It'd allow me to give you my full opinion.
[edit]also, a thread name like that is just rude. using totalities is bad, there will never be a majority of sexist gamers...EVER.[edit][/quote]
I disagree. One of the main differences of opinions in the culture wars is whether to value critical theory. Basically, whether to apply theories from the social sciences and humanities. It's called social science because, like physical science, it's also based on observation. The psychological and social forces we talk about can be ignored, but not wished away. Gaming is already painted. Even if you're a gamer first (no problem with that), you're not a featureless robot playing. Something is still second and it makes a difference. So yeah, I'm one of those people.
For instance: People hate it when women bring up their sex/gender. But nobody seems to rebuke men for bringing up their sex/gender. It's not distracting or distressing for someone to talk as-a-man. This is often based on the assumption that being a man has no influence on our activities, that we're not actually thinking with a gender. Men are almost always comfortable, with regard to their sex/gender being welcome and preferred. This creates the illusion that a zone/activity/etc. that is more friendly to men than women is gender-neutral, since it looks the same to us. There is a tendency to feel that we, as men, are genderless. There is a reason for that, and it's complicated and historical.
I'm cutting myself off. This became a rant. Getting to the point, are we really the ones to determine whether a woman's feelings of alienation are valid or not based on what we want?
and I can assure you that any person that puts external politics/misc ideals into gaming is inherently toxic. They paint everything by by that perspective rather then absorbing the media willingly. It's like those educational or christian games, terrible, and forced on the merit of their strain.
but seriously, if you have full quotes as to why those guys said those things, that would be great.
It'd allow me to give you my full opinion.
[edit]also, a thread name like that is just rude. using totalities is bad, there will never be a majority of sexist gamers...EVER.[edit][/quote]
I disagree. One of the main differences of opinions in the culture wars is whether to value critical theory. Basically, whether to apply theories from the social sciences and humanities. It's called social science because, like physical science, it's also based on observation. The psychological and social forces we talk about can be ignored, but not wished away. Gaming is already painted. Even if you're a gamer first (no problem with that), you're not a featureless robot playing. Something is still second and it makes a difference. So yeah, I'm one of those people.
For instance: People hate it when women bring up their sex/gender. But nobody seems to rebuke men for bringing up their sex/gender. It's not distracting or distressing for someone to talk as-a-man. This is often based on the assumption that being a man has no influence on our activities, that we're not actually thinking with a gender. Men are almost always comfortable, with regard to their sex/gender being welcome and preferred. This creates the illusion that a zone/activity/etc. that is more friendly to men than women is gender-neutral, since it looks the same to us. There is a tendency to feel that we, as men, are genderless. There is a reason for that, and it's complicated and historical.
I'm cutting myself off. This became a rant. Getting to the point, are we really the ones to determine whether a woman's feelings of alienation are valid or not based on what we want?
Truth time: I cut myself off. I couldn't bear watching anything. I disbanded the club because I didn't want to be part of a group that would harass people in general. I just wanted to make things feel better about myself. Thus, I shall cut this thread completely. Problem is I don't exactly know how. I can't feel happy if I make others sad. I knew this for so long. I don't even have friends anymore. I'm just the guy who broke the gaming spirit. But as long as this thread continues, I can't feel happy about anything. Please ignore this thread.
If you want your thread shut down, you can PM a mod and ask them to lock it [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct].PikaPika2 said:
It seems like both men and women are on the receiving end of bullying. I would assume that female gamers are on the receiving end of more severe bullying. But people in general are prone to bullying, especially when anonymous. The ability to single out other individuals as distinct from a given group reinforces a person's feeling of belonging in the group. We've socially evolved this way and it has really only recently stopped being as beneficial to individuals as it once was (forming tribes and alliances was essential to survival in our history).
That kind of sexism shouldn't be tolerated. If this is indeed your club then I'm afraid you're going to have to carry a larger stick and stop walking so quietly with it. Ramifications and rules should be enacted. They should then be followed through with when crossed.
Are the individuals that do this also mean to other gamers for various reasons?
That kind of sexism shouldn't be tolerated. If this is indeed your club then I'm afraid you're going to have to carry a larger stick and stop walking so quietly with it. Ramifications and rules should be enacted. They should then be followed through with when crossed.
Are the individuals that do this also mean to other gamers for various reasons?
What I'm wondering personally is why I just haven't ever witnessed it. I've played various MMOs for years, and while there's PLENTY of gay- and religious-bashing, never once have I heard what amounts to "Wimminz kant gaem" from anyone but trolls. And I mean trolls, not other players who are actually trying to play the game; never in a raid or dungeon, never in a serious match, etc. The only people I've EVER heard being sexist in my gameplay experience were trolls. People who intentionally say hurtful and deceptive things because they gain pleasure from people's reactions. I may be repeating myself, but I just want to be clear and harder to misquote.
My wife and I also game all the time and we haven't really witnessed it either. And by game I mean titles like COD in which this is supposed to be commonplace. We've been playing it ardently since Modern Warfare and we're talking multiple sessions every week.Nieroshai said:
Not saying it doesn't exist or isn't more common than other things since a female voice stands out more than say, a fat person's voice, or whatever. But I would be interested in more in-depth studies on the matter. It'd like to see such a study try to evaluate existence of the problem as well as the pervasiveness of it. I'd like to see the disparity of abuse distinguished according to various qualities that the actors of the study portray. Additionally, I'd be interested in seeing a distinction between online genres and perhaps even between major games.
Sounds like they're intimidated by women. Unfortunately, given the demographic a video game club is targeted to, you're going to sometimes have those kind of people.
Honestly I would just kick 'em out. If they want to be assholes then they can start their own club and be assholes.
Honestly I would just kick 'em out. If they want to be assholes then they can start their own club and be assholes.
Nobody should be forced to hang around toxic people. If you're the club's founder, reclaim the powers that come with that distinction and push the offenders away. Be prepared to watch for other people's reactions for the rest of the club's existence, as every initially well-meaning newcomer could turn out to be another toxic element.
Advertise the group in as wide and as inclusive a way as you can. If you make it clear that you've designed a space where ANYONE can congregate and play or discuss vidyas with peers, you'll choke out the bigots with your promotion of equality. You're not coming up with a "Bros before Hos" assembly, and anyone who joins you expecting that they'll be able to land as many disparaging slurs as they'd want needs to be shown the door.
Eventually, your club should gain enough reputation to ensure that only the right kinds of people petition to join it. The offenders should almost consider that as a service being rendered; this way they can spot fellow insecure gamers more easily and reinforce their negative stereotyping amongst "peers"...
Advertise the group in as wide and as inclusive a way as you can. If you make it clear that you've designed a space where ANYONE can congregate and play or discuss vidyas with peers, you'll choke out the bigots with your promotion of equality. You're not coming up with a "Bros before Hos" assembly, and anyone who joins you expecting that they'll be able to land as many disparaging slurs as they'd want needs to be shown the door.
Eventually, your club should gain enough reputation to ensure that only the right kinds of people petition to join it. The offenders should almost consider that as a service being rendered; this way they can spot fellow insecure gamers more easily and reinforce their negative stereotyping amongst "peers"...
I suppose I can't comment from your perspective, since I'm not a man, but let's see...
If I started a knitting club (which is stereotypically a "woman's" activity) and everyone made fun of my husband for being there and having testicles... I guess it would be far more awkward than simply joining one (in which I'd just be weirded out and leave immediately), so I'd probably have a more difficult time trying to figure out what to do, and in the end leave them to their "exclusive" knitting club. The amount of time it took for this to happen would probably be directly proportional to my husband's interest. If he wasn't super into it, I'd probably leave later, but if he really wanted to knit, I'd probably leave sooner. I can't really see myself actually having anything in common with people who refuse to include those I care about based on gender alone, so the effort of going would eventually not be worth it.
If you have any power, I'd find a way to get rid of toxic people like that. I can't imagine they're amazingly fun to hang out with, except they completely can't stand the idea of an entire gender enjoying their hobby, too. If you have no more power, I'd leave them to collapse under their own weight. If they're picky about girls, they're probably picky about other things, too, and are likely too exclusive to last beyond their own interest.
If I started a knitting club (which is stereotypically a "woman's" activity) and everyone made fun of my husband for being there and having testicles... I guess it would be far more awkward than simply joining one (in which I'd just be weirded out and leave immediately), so I'd probably have a more difficult time trying to figure out what to do, and in the end leave them to their "exclusive" knitting club. The amount of time it took for this to happen would probably be directly proportional to my husband's interest. If he wasn't super into it, I'd probably leave later, but if he really wanted to knit, I'd probably leave sooner. I can't really see myself actually having anything in common with people who refuse to include those I care about based on gender alone, so the effort of going would eventually not be worth it.
If you have any power, I'd find a way to get rid of toxic people like that. I can't imagine they're amazingly fun to hang out with, except they completely can't stand the idea of an entire gender enjoying their hobby, too. If you have no more power, I'd leave them to collapse under their own weight. If they're picky about girls, they're probably picky about other things, too, and are likely too exclusive to last beyond their own interest.
Well, for a bit of uplifting news on this front, I've been to a few competitive-level events recently (a Grand Prix and StarCityGames Open) and haven't seen this issue (I've gotten the "you are a girl at this event" once, but no "haha, this will be an easy win"). I'd suggest trying different shops/venues until you find one that doesn't comment on gender at all. It shouldn't take too much effort, either; most MTG players are much more concerned about the cards and less about the sex organs of the people holding them.The Almighty Aardvark said:
First, there's bullying everywhere so of course there are men who bully female gamers. Maybe to a greater extent than other areas but I don't know if that's for me to say.
In your situation. If you started the club and run it, kick them out. Maybe it started as harmless playing around (though in an immature manner for sure), but it has escalated to a point where there should be zero tolerance. Kick them out, explain to them why they did it, offer them the chance to come back if they give a formal apology to your girlfriend. Video game clubs should be a place to make friends and feel safe to enjoy something you love. They are destroying that and it's really quite despicable.
Side note: I don't play much smash (haven't played since Melee), but Kirby was always my favourite. Your girlfriend seems pretty cool.
In your situation. If you started the club and run it, kick them out. Maybe it started as harmless playing around (though in an immature manner for sure), but it has escalated to a point where there should be zero tolerance. Kick them out, explain to them why they did it, offer them the chance to come back if they give a formal apology to your girlfriend. Video game clubs should be a place to make friends and feel safe to enjoy something you love. They are destroying that and it's really quite despicable.
Side note: I don't play much smash (haven't played since Melee), but Kirby was always my favourite. Your girlfriend seems pretty cool.
Yeah. Gaming is very much a boys club and it pisses me off. In fact, the internet is a boys club and they are very scared to let it go.
And they are boys, they may be 35 years old in terms of years on this planet but only 5 years old mentally. It's why every game has females that are nearly naked or are air heads, it's why women get such a hard time.
Think of it like little boys on the school yard, they don't know how to express themselves so they bully the girl they like.
Guys have control and they don't want to let it go. I think it's the reason Anita (among others) gets so much hate, they bring up the conversation and look at the reaction she gets ... which kind of proves her point.
And they are boys, they may be 35 years old in terms of years on this planet but only 5 years old mentally. It's why every game has females that are nearly naked or are air heads, it's why women get such a hard time.
Think of it like little boys on the school yard, they don't know how to express themselves so they bully the girl they like.
Guys have control and they don't want to let it go. I think it's the reason Anita (among others) gets so much hate, they bring up the conversation and look at the reaction she gets ... which kind of proves her point.
I'm an officer of a game club and we have not had one instance of sexism related drama. We only may have 2-3 girls at any time, but they all seem cool and I've never received any complaints.
We have other problems though, like a few members (some of them officers, sadly) with anger problems and an occasional case of "stop playing this way."
We have other problems though, like a few members (some of them officers, sadly) with anger problems and an occasional case of "stop playing this way."
Thankfully we've got several different places we can go to, I think that particular one was the worst of the bunch in this regard. She also gets it a little worse than some other women because she dresses and acts more on the feminine side. The sailing tends to be a little bit smoother if you dress and act more like a guy would.Catrixa said:
Good to hear you haven't had much trouble with it though, I hardly think it's a probably with the MtG community as a whole, you just get these very inclusive and secluded niches that aren't at all used girls being present in their hobbies.