Are PC developers/ports getting lazy

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Piracy is an excuse to make bad/limited games. And a crappy excuse at that.

I dunno, seems like a pretty good excuse not to put as much hard work into a game if people are just going to steal it. I am pretty sure you wouldn't put so much work into a car if you knew somebody would just drive off when it's done or almost done.

 

[Daedalus1942]

Nearly every PC game looks better than it's console counterpart.

Im not exactly sure what the point of your statement is. A few games have already been mentioned here in this thread and I can easily think of a dozen others that actually play far better on a consoles, ie the pc version runs like crap. Nobody really gives a flying fuck if a game looks better but runs like complete shit.

Dead Space on PC is annoying to play compared to the PS3 version. I second this notion.
-Tabs<3-

 

[Savagezion]

Kid, they spent $500,000,000 on the launch of Xbox alone. That's the launch. Not the subsequent 5 years of dev time, OS upgrades and XBOX 360 - $500 mil on the kinetic alone.



Now, if I were Microsoft, and I'd spent over 2 billion dollars on my gaming market I wouldn't give a flying fuck about PC sales.

Guess what?


THEY DON'T

You've got this tendency to post about a sentence or so, and then throughout the next half hour just continually add more rambling to said post.

You also have this tendency to completely ignore whatever anyone else writes and go on a tangent, which makes any sort of topical discussion/debate/argument pretty much pointless.

You sure you're a coder and not a politician, perhaps you missed your calling.

p.s. (because I know you love them)

So let's take your ever so massive CV claims as the truth and not the rantings of a 14 year old making shit up online. If you are in fact telling the truth, yet still feel like need to present yourself like a child on gaming forums, that's really kind of sad.

p.p.s (just for you)

How are you going to tell someone to "piss off" before a post script? What if I had pissed off!? I would have never known what you were going to say! How tragic that would be.

Now piss off.

Haha, win.

Seriously, Mouldy Oldy. Your communication skills are lacking even for an internet forum. It is often hard to read your posts the way you structure it. The condescending nature only makes it harder to try and be receptive. I have a hard time believing anyone could be considered 'professional' and sound like that. It would be nice if something constructive was added by you if the experience you claim is true.

 

[Vault101]

I know saints row 2 was pretty bad but I'm greatful I even got to play it at all I mean I actually got used to the annoying controlls and The game is still enjoyable

 

[Cronq]

As a dedicated PC Gamer and the new owner of PS3, I've already seen my fare share of games that run like crap on PS3 as well. The only difference being that PC users are used to being able to make adjustments and "fixing" things. If I get screen tearing or hate the control setup "choices" on my console game then tough beans. Console gamers are willing to accept things that the PC community won't accept: Lack of true 1080p, frame rate caps, and a full options menu which allows a full amount of controls and adjustments for everything.

 

[Delusibeta]

This really comes back to my previous post. It's simply not worth it to spend the extra few bucks on the PC port. Hell, it's funny you brought up Bully. Bully is, hands down, the reason why Rock* isn't bringing RDR to PC. The PC port of Bully actually cost them sales due to an overwhelming failure to advertise. It's funny & sad at the same time.

Fixed it for you. Honestly, I had no idea that they bothered to make a port until it popped up on Steam.

yada yada, publishers take all the copyright just like record labels, movie studios etc, Micro$oft deserves its nickname, etc.

Recommendation: pull a Cliffski and make an indie game or twenty. You sound like you need it.

 

[Mouldy Oldy]

Recommendation: pull a Cliffski and make an indie game or twenty. You sound like you need it.

You're actually referencing Positech games here? The indy UK guy who has had - 2 games launched? Who I might have met? Good one there! Ask him about "Exile" ["The Nameless One" after copyright discussions - was a good project, and a very fun end product. I might have been involved in a small way, just alpha/beta testing solidly for 3 months that one as a favour because I loved Exile on the BBC32 Micro - then again, I might have helped out with a lot of other Indy games as well! Whilst working full time making a living writing code >.< ]

I like his code - I like his game - But let's not pretend that it is anything massive*. I could name circa 8 really good coders of Indy stuff before I reached him in terms of influence or quality. He's a nice guy though, and has the right approach to modding etc. Might have bought him a pint once, although I doubt he remembers that woman.

Oh. And you're assuming that I didn't make some games once. Or twice. Srlsy. /sadpanda.


@MindlessPuppet


Ok. We get you're 15 and living with your parents. Microsoft has invested over $2 billion into the XBOX / 360 / gaming market, and you've no idea the lengths they will go to to make it profitable.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/17632/microsoft-xbox-360-whistleblower-fired
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/02/01/ps3-dev-talks-about-getting-fired-for-talking/
http://www.1up.com/news/microsoft-robert-delaware-dismissed-comments

That's three people's career's ruined - I could get all serious, and actually give you a huge list of these, but your mentality doesn't deserve it.

And so on, and so forth.


Rule #1 - You don't work in the business unless you've racked up about 15 NDAs so far
Rule #2 - You're expendable
Rule #3 - The customer base are largely ignorant


It is all the same for major studios: its a small world. And we're all getting fucked by the suits.

And so on, and so forth.



Looking at these forums, I was told that there was a core of serious business players on here. Guess not.

Ciao.


p.s.


@Mindlesspuppet

You didn't step up to the challenge - guess "I win", and you've not actually had a job yet. Well.. here's a pro-tip: posting on gaming forums doesn't make your CV better. The myth that you can post meaningless drivel on forums as "reviews" or "comments" and make a living is just that: a myth. Grow up, and realise that even Mr. C. did his time writing code. Oh, and its a small Indy world - if you asked him about "Exile", it'd probably turn out that the lead coder & him know of each other, and so on and so forth.

Prove me wrong - but sorry kid, but your tiny rep on some backwater Australian gaming forum isn't moving me to quake in my boots. The only reason we come here is 'cause Mr. C. went over there - oh..wait.. Australian Indy Coding Games? Huge market we've all missed? No.

Australian Indy games - you find me one, I'll retract any statements that "down under" has no coding skills.

No. You're feeding off a Brit import who has kudos, nothing else.








*If you want to do "Cliffski" a favour, direct download his game via his micro-credit payment direct links rather than Steam - http://www.positech.co.uk/gratuitousspacebattles/dlc.html The bonus is that if you do it via his website, rather than Steam, you save yourself money!.

 

[Mouldy Oldy]

Mate there is no reason to be condescending, it sounds like you have some experience with this field and a working knowledge that can offer insight on the developers community...

This is something alot of us could benifit from, so please don't alienate us by this very very thick condescension.

And to be honest, im surprised that you still work as a ''game creator'' when it seems like you really hate your fanbase...

The title of the thread is "Are PC developers/ports getting lazy"

When you work a 72 hour week coding, you might realise why the few times an honest comeback is allowed might sound a little bitter.



But yes - point taken. I was directed here as a no-nonsense forum where everyone knew the score - turns out I was "trolled" (probably to get at Mr. C. not that he reads the forums, but the UK crowd enjoy minor baiting ) but sure: polite request, I'll turn down the vitriol and behave nicely.


Hello to you as well btw

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Australian Indy games - you find me one, I'll retract any statements that "down under" has no coding skills.

The Puzzle Quest games by Infinite Interactive.

 

[octafish]

*Snip*
Australian Indy games - you find me one, I'll retract any statements that "down under" has no coding skills.

No. You're feeding off a Brit import who has kudos, nothing else. *snip*

I'm pretty sure Farbs was born in Canberra. So Captain Forever and its sequels, ROM CHECK FAIL, and Fishy Fishy would count as Australian Indie games, plus they are fun.

OT. GTA IV plays ok on my beasty PC now, but when it was released I had an ATI card, massive fail for Rockstar there. Gameplay is ok even if it is taxing on my machine and it does look good. Saints Row 2 still gets poor framerates, looks like poo, and controls horribly. I think it is a poor implentation of the PC controls that makes a poor port. I don't expect every game to look great but when they don't look good and control like shit that is unforgivable.

Look I don't like the direction games are going, I feel they are shallower than in the past and much too short. But I feel that is more market driven than hardware driven.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

'getting'? Got.

 

[Nexoram]

And by lazy, I mean lazy in optimising the game to run fast. Graphics have not realy improved in the last 2 years or so, but system requirements still go up, and it is often because its not optimised, has memory leaks, or other bugs.
For example, Black ops runs slower than Modern warfare 1, even though they have about the same graphics.
Are they just getting lazy because they no longer have to bother with optimising since PCs are still getting more powerful?

I know exactly what you mean, dude. I have a modest laptop but can run Starcraft 2 at a high framerate on nearly the lowest settings and it still looks amazing. I was also able to run Modern Warfare 1 & 2 on average settings with a good framerate, and they also looked incredible. However, World at War and Black Ops ran like ass, even on the lowest settings.

See also GTA IV: crap on a stick. Bully: for a game from 2006 (2008 on the PC, but the graphics still look more like San Andreas than GTA IV) it lags terribly if I dare turn the shadows on. It's really annoying, but I'm doing the best of it.

Graphics aren't that big a deal for me and I can live with low settings, but what really ticks me off is that console ports tend to have very, very few graphics customizability. Would it kill developers to add more settings in their games? I got Mass Effect 2, turned everything down to minimum everything I could and it still ran really poorly. A few Google searches and config file editings later and the experience improved greatly. Why exactly couldn't they add the settings in the options menu in-game instead of forcing me to muck with the code?

This really comes back to my previous post. It's simply not worth it to spend the extra few bucks on the PC port. Hell, it's funny you brought up Bully. Bully is, hands down, the reason why Rock* isn't bringing RDR to PC. The PC port of Bully actually cost them sales due to an overwhelming wave of piracy. It's funny & sad at the same time.

Yeah, it's a shame. I'd have wanted to play Red Dead Redemption. Nowadays there aren't really any more "exclusive" PC developers apart from (top of my head) Valve and indies. And Black Ops? God, It says I've played 33 hours but the reality is that 29 of those hours were from combat training. The multiplayer is just THAT laggy.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Yeah I can see why you would be insulted when someone think's you are lazy, when you work 72 hours a week, but you must also understand that most people (including me) don't really know much about what is going on behind the developers doors, the community only really see's the finished product and sometimes people get the impression that the developers dind't put very much work into it, which is silly maybe, but it is very easy to be bitter when you are disappointed...

Mouldy might have come out swinging a bit hard but there is a trend online where the many people who have some glamourous, idealised notion (and that's all it is, a notion) of what game development entails go into Rabid Attack Dog mode anytime someone says something that might indicate dev work as something much more mundane and job-like.

I've known people in the industry who simply refuse to let it be known that they do because they just can't be arsed dealing with the bullshit that it brings online.

 

[Heart of Darkness]

Well, this is a silly claim. How do you know code is poorly optimized if you only ever see the end result? There are other factors that go into determining how fast programs run--shaders, texture loaders, lighting and weather effects, subroutines running in the background, number of objects currently being drawn and updated, dynamic environments, how many players are currently connected to the game/how much the server has to compensate for lag...these are all things that you need to take into account along with graphics.

Besides, there's also another point to consider: the cost of optimizing working code to make it run faster is not worth it if the end result is a barely noticeable increase in improvement.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Look I don't like the direction games are going, I feel they are shallower than in the past and much too short. But I feel that is more market driven than hardware driven.

That's not really the fault of the devs, though. In most cases they only develope what they're paid to develope or what they can develope on time and/or budget.

Developers are essentially hemmed in by publisher demands/expectations/limits, budget (time and financial), public expectations, and what is realistically possible. All 6 form a fucked up little box and the space inside is where game development happens and the size and shape of the box is not only variable but can also vary during the development process.

 

[Mouldy Oldy]

Hmm.

There's been some rather disingenous editing going on here - I posted a reply with 100% Australian Indy talent, and mentions of them, because of course Australia has Indy talent - and I've worked with them This was my obvious counter-point to silly claims that it takes British talent to get Australia noticed - I was hoping that the counter-spume of "OMG, look at this studio" would be higher.

"Maybe" I forgot to press "post", but I doubt it.

I'll try this again - given we had a direct link to GSB, I don't think this breaks rules:

http://euotopia.com/

Max Breedon - been deving a free U5 / MMO base for many years now - if you're oldschool, and look beyond the 2D, you'll find Rogue like mechanics honed to perfection.

There's a lot more, but there we go - he's based in Syndey & there's a lot of other talent around.

 

[LightOfDarkness]

Developers aren't. Ports are.
I.e. People who actually make PC games are (usually) good at optimization. People who make console games then port them to PC are getting lazy and just modifying game code to run PC hardware, but not changing the rendering magic to work for PC hardware.