Are people abusing the concept of a trigger?

[Trude]

Some students have even suggested that rape law should not be taught because of its potential to cause distress.

Pardon my Klingon, but then what is the fucking point of teaching anything if someone is going to pull shit like this? I'm not going to jeopardize my education for a couple of nitwits who can't handle listening to something unpleasant for a few hours. The door is over there.

 

[The Wykydtron]

You could just give a straight up answer to someone who clearly stated first post they weren't exactly sure what a trigger was and was asking for your definition on it, but I suppose that would take away from getting to belittle someone, and we can't have that, now can we?

Yeah i'm pretty willfully ignorant about these things lately (feminazis, that Gamergate thing, Anita whatsherface etc) because i'm not very compatible with much srs bsns threads I tend to just leave them alone 99% of the time. Posting in them just reminds me why I should keep away from them. However at the very least, people seem to agree that this is sort of a rather...Tumblry thing. At least a quick scroll through the thread says so.

You could just give a straight up answer to someone who clearly stated first post they weren't exactly sure what a trigger was and was asking for your definition on it, but I suppose that would take away from getting to belittle someone, and we can't have that, now can we?

Ironic, considering that's exactly what Tippy did while trying to "understand," but hey, I guess it's only a problem when someone on the "other side" does it or whatever. Hell, the existence of a rant in the same post where he says he isn't sure (and has since decided, hence the edit which was the reason I replied) should be called out all the more. Do you make a habit of ranting about things you don't understand? It would explain this response, but it's bad practice.

This is why I can never take someone from the mystical (slightly insane) land of Tumblr seriously.

Making this a "Tumblr" thing is like saying "a bunch of people on The Escapist have misused the concept of Tumblr to apply an issue of misuse of a term that is internet wide. This is why I can never take someone from the mystical (slightly insane) land of The Escapist seriously)." Which some people may actually believe. I hear we're all rabid SJWs and feminazis or whatever the latest buzzwords are.

or, to put it in a way that might better resonate with the gaming community, you just used the same logic applied to Tumblr that says we're all a bunch of angry, neckbearded manchildren. So....um...Stereotypes FTW?

Yeh that seems about roight actually. I don't like the Escapist much right now either, the amount of SJW and feminism threads have been spiralling out of controls for so damn long. *sigh* I'm not cut out for these threads, I can't joke around without people taking me super seriously. But these buzzword/super srs threads are like 90% of what this site is and I get bored when I don't have much to post. I'll just go back to just leaving these threads be again, they just aren't fun y'know?

So basically, PTSD by people who have no idea what PTSD really is. I see. I guessed as much.

That is a common use (though how common is an unanswerable question), but I must take issue at dismissing the term based on assholes misusing it. "Trigger" describes a real concept and a real phenomenon, and if it's to be laughed at because it's been appropriated by the ignorant, then so must almost any physical or psychological disease or defect, because just about any illness you care to name is being misused by someone trying to elevate himself as special for it. And that's saying nothing of political ideologies, scientific theories, legal definitions...

I do get the concept of what a trigger is, I just can't fully believe the sheer volume of people crying it legitimately. Looking around a bit maybe there's a lot of The Boy Who Cried Trigger going on a lot? Cuz I always thought it was only used by people looking for maximum attention whoring and easy mode argument cop outs. I'm not insulting anyone who legit has a real problem just to clarify.

 

[Darkmantle]

EDIT: Hell, I even waited to put the Billy Madison thing in until I got "definitions" from multiple people.

I've told you what I've seen as the definition most have been using for trigger and what I've seen from people online (namely, "Triggers" and "I'm offended" have been used interchangeably). Hell, the definition most everyone in this thread has been using has been "I'm offended" when referring to triggers.

Tippy, you're a good guy, but you need to not look to internet forums for descriptions of complicated psychological phenomena. Especially forums like this one, where a statistically significant portion of users believe compassion is for pantywaists, that liberal propaganda has poisoned their hobby, and that anyone anywhere who has ever been hurt or traumatized is making it up to get attention and make them feel bad.

The term "trigger" does indeed get misused by people, sometimes to indicate just about anything that gets under their skin, or they believe is inappropriate for discussion. They do not understand the nature of the term. Neither do some of the keyboard heroes in this thread eager to tell you it originated on Tumblr and is e-speak for "I am offended". PTSD is a real thing. It's not unique to rape survivors or soldiers on the battlefield. Some people, through no fault of their own, can experience extraordinarily debilitating symptoms from a mention or encounter with visual or audible stimula that recall a traumatic event. It is not wrong for those people to request a little extra consideration.

I lost my Dad, suddenly, about 7 years ago, to an aneurysm. My Mom was the one who found him, and tried to revive him. He was two weeks from retirement. For years she could barely even talk about him without becoming profoundly upset. Certain topics, such as "retirement", or anniversaries, or times of year, would instigate CRASHING episodes of clinical depression that continue to this day. Home movies of finding his body would start playing in her head. To the point of grief-stricken phone conversations where she'd wonder aloud if we wouldn't be better off committing suicide so we could get life support money.

She'd never snap at or blame anyone for upsetting her, and her symptoms are usually tied to unavoidable events rather than thoughtless comments, but her symptoms are quite painfully real. She's done everything right, in terms of getting therapy, taking medication, reaching out for support, etc, but that doesn't change the reality that she can be plunged into panic or black depression at the snap of a finger.

Now, according to some of the talking heads on this forum, her experiences and emotions are absolutely meaningless, triggers are nonsense, PTSD is unique to Vietnam vets and being an asshole and speaking your mind about everything to everyone is the single most important quality for any given person to have.

If you want information that does not come from such individuals, just google it. Here's the wiki link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger

You'll note the debate around the concept of "trigger warnings", which I think is constructive and healthy. I'm not sure what I think of "trigger warnings" myself, and think the argument that a culture of avoidance isn't healthy is cogent. Triggers, however, are absolutely real, and it costs nothing to be sympathetic and aware.

Okay Guppy, lets talk about the way it's being used in common parlance. Which is the real discussion being had here.

Reading over that story about your mother, Anniversaries, retirement, certain times of year, home movies.

So in light of that, should I include a trigger warning:
Whenever I post about my birthday (anniversary of birth)?
When I wish a friend happy birthday (anniversary)?
When I post about how many years I've dated my partner (anniversary)?
When I mention the snow (Time of year)?
When I mention the leaves falling (Time of year)?
When I make a "and he has only one day till retirement" joke (Retirement)?

that's a short list off the top of my head. Add that to the "common" trigger warnings (violance, sex, etc). To tag everything that might potentially trigger someone would be ludicrous.

In short, 'Triggers' as they seem to be called now, exist, trigger warnings are bullshit. You can't expect strangers to cater to your neurosis, of which they have no way of knowing.

 

[kickyourass]

Without question yes, since the dawn of our species the more repugnant aspects of said species has sought ways of taking away accountability, magic shields and generally ways of shutting down people and/or conversations they don't like without themselves being questioned.

'Triggers' as much as I dislike that particular term, do exist, anyone who has ever known someone with PTSD should be able to attest to the fact that certain stimuli can be very very bad for certain people. But instead of treating such things as simply a topic to be handled with an ounce of fucking tact (Perhaps the rarest substance known to modern man) they latch onto it. They than proceed to misuse the term to the point of insanity either trying to make it so that the people suffering from the triggers need to be handled with 100% kid gloves so they can 'help' without actually doing anything or, if they're scummy little jerk-wads, throw it around like a magic word that'll make everything they don't like stop.
Which than leads to other jerk-wads to dismiss the idea completely as a bunch of whining idiots complaining instead of something that is actually a thing.

Sometimes I wonder what the people who helped MAKE the internet think when they see such large portions of it acting like this.

 

[Darkmantle]

I do get the concept of what a trigger is, I just can't fully believe the sheer volume of people crying it legitimately. Looking around a bit maybe there's a lot of The Boy Who Cried Trigger going on a lot? Cuz I always thought it was only used by people looking for maximum attention whoring and easy mode argument cop outs. I'm not insulting anyone who legit has a real problem just to clarify.

Look, triggers exist. I will give you a common example, the classic example really.

A Vietnam vet who, upon hearing certain things, or seeing certain things, starts to flashback to the trauma he suffered in Vietnam. We've all seen that stereotype, that's what a "trigger" is.

What's really offensive is hordes of people essentially co-opting legitimate psychological phenomena into their nonsense with this trigger warning BS, and using said BS to try and bludgeon people with differing views.

 

[Signa]

But that's what the thread is about. And that's what he was asking about. The way the term is being abused and misused.

Yeah, not so much.

I still don't know what the fuck a "trigger" is.

Either I'm too stupid to get it or the concept is too stupid for me to get but is it seriously just a word and/or concept that potentially could make someone upset? Like...that's it? Like....if I say the word "rape", that could "trigger" someone into being sad or something?

Yes, that is the gist of it. People are wanting you to make sure they don't encounter things that bother them by labeling things with trigger warnings. See above: it doesn't even have to be offensive, and I've heard of people needing a trigger warning on pineapples for being pineapples.

So, no. The 'he' in this case was not asking specifically about ways in which it was misused, he was asking what it was. Specifically "could a word or concept make someone upset", appearing dumbstruck by the very concept. And rather than present him with the realities of PTSD and triggers, the first respondent (and quite a few after) chimed in with "lol ya it's pretty much just whiners".

I think my point stands. Whatever discussion OP wanted to have swiftly derailed into the question of whether or not triggers even exist. I don't think Tippy was malicious, but he was painfully misinformed, and the tenor of some of the responses he got was, frankly, embarrassing.

I saw your post before and why this is a pretty big deal to you. I honestly can't remember actually hearing the words "trigger warning" before I heard them come from Anita addressing her Tumblrites. Judging by the comments from the folks in here with actual PTSD, no one that I could give a damn about actually uses the word in it's proper context. It's all whiners and not the people that deserve care and respect like your mom. I'm expecting that you're right in the end, but you're too late for me to take anyone seriously that uses trigger warning seriously in a sentence. Blame yet another thing ruined by Tumblr.

 

[DementedSheep]

It the internet, of course people are abusing it and take it too far.

It usually for things that will cause extreme distress or PTSD flashbacks not anything that makes a person uncomfortable. Obviously you can't be expected to avoid anything that might "trigger" someone. If you know someone who gets set of by a thing don't be ass and do that thing around them. Since rape and suicide are fairly common ones if something has depictions of either or a speaker is going to talk a lot about that it would be good if they take 2 seconds to warn people before hand. That's about it.

In the case of being lawyer you have to know rape law so it's not reasonable to expect them to drop that from the course or omit it from exams.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But the idea isn't meant to be that you avoid topics (trigger words are a rather sillier concept) that may trigger someone. Rather, it's that if you're going to discuss a topic you know could be emotionally distressing to some (or if you know the people involved, what upsets them specificall), you give them enough warning that th3y can decide for themselves if they can deal with proceeding before you actually really start discussing me.

To expand on this, you know how before a movie is on TV, you'll have a thing that says "This movie is rated _ It contains _________" so people can decide if they want to watch it or not (at least where I live)? Or, for that matter, saying "NSFW"?

A trigger warning (or content note) is exactly the same. If there's going to be something that it's reasonably to predict that some people might really not want to see, you let them know in advance.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I'm all for proper labels and warnings for things that many people find upsetting, but ultimately if you have a trigger, it's your problem. The world shouldn't have to censor itself for your benefit, and people should never be limited because someone is 'triggered' (like in the case of them trying to get the law professor to avoid rape law).

On the one hand, I do agree that triggers are the problem of the person dealing with them. On the other hand as a person who gets sent into panic attacks (that will quickly devolve into asthma attacks) because I start having flashbacks of being raped when I get rape threats or people casually start talking about it (for instance going on facebook to a group for a work place group and seeing that someone is saying they're going to rape everyone and everyone else laughing about it) there are situations in which it starts not being my fault and the fault of others. I've had books trigger me (and I'm a heavy book reader) and I'm fully in support of books coming with trigger warnings.

OT:

In the case of the first article, if you're triggered by parts of law you need to know to be a lawyer, you should consider a different profession or learn to deal with the trigger. In the case of the second article, dude was being kind of an insensitive prick but it didn't justify the vandalism to his door.

In the example I gave above (about logging into a facebook group to look at the work group to see if there was anything important that I needed to know) I was told I was being too sensitive and that I needed to man up or just not work there at all. And that they're not responsible for what they say (which is horseshit because you are always responsible for what you say). As a result because I was "no fun" (because heaven forbid I don't let people touch/grope me that I don't know whenever they want to) I was removed and blocked from the facebook group. And found out through a friend who had stayed out of all of it that they continued to mock me behind my back about it.

I DO think, that if you're in a literature type class and a book that you're going to be covering has instances of common triggers you should warn the class at least on the syllabus so that the person can make the informed decision to continue on with the class or drop it. Being triggered is not fun. In addition to panic/asthma attacks I can go to completely freezing for periods of 5 minutes to 4 hours reliving my rapes over and over. Triggers aren't something to necessarily joke about (like a lot of people do).

 

[Silence]

As someone who worked in a psychiatry, I must agree that it is overused, and, even worse, harmful. I won't talk aout individuals who actually get triggered (that was covered before), but there are things you need to know if you try to not trigger people.

You need to talk about the things. You absolutely need to. Of course, having trigger warnings is important, if the things pop up in unexpected places and can trigger without warning and without intervention. But you never should avoid the subject, if the context is given.

But one example, maybe one of the most important of all:
(suicide)

Spoiler

What do you do if someone is suicidal? Do you ask him or do you not, because it could trigger him/her?
The answer is: You HAVE TO ASK. It is far more important to know for sure than to avoid the subject, because it could trigger something. You can only save his/her life, if you don't avoid the direct question.

tumblr right now is the internets poison well.

 

[tippy2k2]

snip

Thank you for that Guppy.

This is 100% fair and what I am assuming Zachary has been trying to say and either I didn't/couldn't understand him or if your attitude with your post made me look more into what you're saying than what he did but THIS kind of trigger warning is something I can understand (and to go back to it, I think this is what Crystal was talking about earlier).

That seems to be where the biggest confusion is coming in and how I got myself in trouble (though I still stand by my defense that I came in here, asked what it was, had what I thought confirmed multiple times, THEN I lashed out at the concept; it's not like I came in here saying PTSD is stupid and everyone who has it is stupid. One could argue that I SHOULD have looked into it more before I posted about it but I came in asking for info and ran with the info that I was given).

It seems like the sheer common usage of the term "Trigger" on sites like Tumblr have completely diluted the actual seriousness of the very real physiological issues some people have and that's the form of "Trigger" I have been discussing. If I caused people offense with it, I am sorry about that (I will edit my OP a bit but unfortunately, I am writing this going out the door to work; I also have a bit more to add to this but I wanted to get this out there right away to let you know that I am at least thinking about what you're saying).

 

[Batou667]

The concept of emotional or psychological triggers is real and legitimate. A combat veteran might be triggered by the sound of fireworks exploding. A rape victim might be triggered by rape jokes.

However - the concept has been selfishly co-opted, cheapened and trivialised by a group of people best summed up as "special snowflakes" - people who feel they deserve special treatment, even if that means becoming internet hypochondriacs and eagerly self-diagnosing psychological issues, traumas, and a pick-and-mix selection of genders, sexualities, dysmorphias and custom pronouns. It's utterly ridiculous, and what's more I don't think we can continue to wave this kind of thing away as merely "kids on Tumblr", since evidently it's spilling over into real life.

In my opinion this is a side effect of the way identity politics has been given a platform and privilege in political and academic discourse. When you tell people that who they are and how they feel is more important than what they've done and what they know, and furthermore when the minority voice attracts special attention and is shielded from criticism, then you're positively encouraging and rewarding people who self-identify as members of minority demographics - the more obscure and "victimised" the better.

It's madness.

 

[ForumSafari]

Also, this reminds me of a person on Tumblr who had a huge list of her triggers, what terms you had to use when you blacklisted them, the conditions when you didn't need to blacklist them, and so on. I sincerely doubt that all of those things were actual things that could trigger a panic attack from her; most were probably stuff that made her a bit uncomfortable.

The big mistake around triggers on places like Tumblr is that frequently triggers for PTSD are seemingly unrelated sensory input, not discussing the abstract concept of the thing. For instance; a rape victim who was raped in an alley probably won't find discussing rape triggering their PTSD (it'll probably make them uncomfortable but that's different as you say) but may well find a smell that was there, the feel of concrete or an incidental detail like a particular car horn or something triggering it.

 

[JimB]

I do get the concept of what a trigger is, I just can't fully believe the sheer volume of people crying it legitimately. Looking around a bit maybe there's a lot of The Boy Who Cried Trigger going on a lot?

If you say so. I personally haven't seen this sprouting forest of people crying "trigger" that apparently everyone else has.

I'm curious, do the pro-trigger warning believe that if a student who has PTSD from being raped is studying emergency medicine should have to be warned at the beginning of her lectures that rape may be discussed?

If she warned her instructor beforehand, then yes, I think she has the right to have her condition respected. If not, then what is the instructor, psychic?

If you've got an actual psychological trigger, see a therapist, talk to a close friend or relative about it, don't post it on social fucking media.

Why not? Who gains what by telling victims to be silent about their suffering?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Reading over that story about your mother, Anniversaries, retirement, certain times of year, home movies.

So in light of that, should I include a trigger warning:
Whenever I post about my birthday (anniversary of birth)?
When I wish a friend happy birthday (anniversary)?
When I post about how many years I've dated my partner (anniversary)?
When I mention the snow (Time of year)?
When I mention the leaves falling (Time of year)?
When I make a "and he has only one day till retirement" joke (Retirement)?

that's a short list off the top of my head. Add that to the "common" trigger warnings (violance, sex, etc). To tag everything that might potentially trigger someone would be ludicrous.

Go back and read the entire post, Darkmantle. I don't advocate for trigger warnings and I mentioned that she has never advocated that no one ever speak to her about anything. I was explaining the existence of triggers and how debilitating they can be to someone who didn't know what they are, not arguing that we should coddle psychological trauma or that the world should be full of precognitives to avoid ever saying the wrong thing at the wrong moment.

You can't expect strangers to cater to your neurosis, of which they have no way of knowing.

What should strangers do once they DO know?

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I do get the concept of what a trigger is, I just can't fully believe the sheer volume of people crying it legitimately. Looking around a bit maybe there's a lot of The Boy Who Cried Trigger going on a lot?

If you say so. I personally haven't seen this sprouting forest of people crying "trigger" that apparently everyone else has.

I'm curious, do the pro-trigger warning believe that if a student who has PTSD from being raped is studying emergency medicine should have to be warned at the beginning of her lectures that rape may be discussed?

If she warned her instructor beforehand, then yes, I think she has the right to have her condition respected. If not, then what is the instructor, psychic?

If you've got an actual psychological trigger, see a therapist, talk to a close friend or relative about it, don't post it on social fucking media.

Why not? Who gains what by telling victims to be silent about their suffering?

I'm not saying be silent. In the thing you replied to I said talk to a therapist, friend, or relative. Work it out. Work through it.
Posting it on social media will only make things worse.

 

[AwesomeHatMan]

I'm curious, do the pro-trigger warning believe that if a student who has PTSD from being raped is studying emergency medicine should have to be warned at the beginning of her lectures that rape may be discussed?

If she warned her instructor beforehand, then yes, I think she has the right to have her condition respected. If not, then what is the instructor, psychic?

I agree. A situation such as the student at the start of the course talking/sending an e-mail to the lecturer requesting a heads-up on the lectures, seems perfectly reasonable and I'm sure the lecturer would be happy to tell the student privately beforehand if the triggers would be discussed. But as you said, otherwise it would be unreasonable to just expect that of the lecturer. I believe part of the major problem people seem to have when these discussions come up is that the people who are pro-triggerwarning seem to just expect that of the lecturer anyway [citation needed].

If you've got an actual psychological trigger, see a therapist, talk to a close friend or relative about it, don't post it on social fucking media.

Why not? Who gains what by telling victims to be silent about their suffering?

I think what ks is saying there is that if discussing something can cause horrible flashbacks/whatever and that one finds it so hard to talk about this, then why would one be discussing this on social media? If one does have this problem with this topic, why would they go out of their way to bring it up (especially on social media, which has such a reputation for its negativity)? Surely by doing this they are doing the thing that they were trying to avoid. Which could cause others to assume that the they are either A: Stupid for bringing up their own trigger, B: Using their supposed trigger as an excuse or C: Just looking for attention.

This is not to say that one should just never talk about this again but rather, as he said, with a trained professional or with someone they trust who cares for them so that the trigger can be discussed in a positive, healthy manner to help with the condition.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It seems like the sheer common usage of the term "Trigger" on sites like Tumblr have completely diluted the actual seriousness of the very real physiological issues some people have and that's the form of "Trigger" I have been discussing. If I caused people offense with it, I am sorry about that (I will edit my OP a bit but unfortunately, I am writing this going out the door to work; I also have a bit more to add to this but I wanted to get this out there right away to let you know that I am at least thinking about what you're saying).

I think everyone needs to give the Tumblr paranoia a break (SRSLY GUYZ, ITS A GENERALIST WEBSITE, IF YOU STOP LOOKING FOR INSANITY ON THERE YOU WILL STOP FINDING IT). As I said in my reply to you, there are most certainly going to be people who misappropriate language like this, either because they lack the proper diagnosis/terminology, or they're dramatic, or they like getting a rise out of people, or any of a thousand other reasons. You'll recall we went through something similar here where 100,000 people self-diagnosed with Aspergers. Probably super annoying for the people who actually had it. People spend some time with Dr. Google, and get a halfway understanding of a phenomenon, and insist to anyone who will listen that they suffer from it.

You don't have to and shouldn't treat the world like spun glass, but mental illness can be just as real and life altering as physical illness. We'd have all the compassion in the world and take extra steps to help out someone who had cancer, or a broken leg, or was recovering from a heart attack. Because we can't SEE psychological trauma, sometimes we're a bit callous t it. We don't take it seriously, or we think people are making it up, or they should just "get over it already".

If you'd been raped or molested, and the mere mention of it happening threw you back into memories of the incident, you'd be living in a personal hell that was not in the slightest way your fault. If your reception upon mentioning this to people was to have them laugh, or call you a faker, or misappropriate a quote from Stephen Fry to tell you that you had no right to feel hurt, how supported would you feel? Not everyone recovers the same way, and some people prefer immersion therapy, which is why the question of "is avoidance healthy" gets raised. All you really need is a willingness to listen and take someone's state of mind into consideration. If my girlfriend's father was a war veteran with PTSD, maybe no loud fireworks. If my female friend had been raped, maybe no HILARIOUS rape jokes in her presence. Or just, you know, ask them what they need.

Anyway thanks for listening. TTYL.

 

[Something Amyss]

You'll recall we went through something similar here where 100,000 people self-diagnosed with Aspergers. Probably super annoying for the people who actually had it.

Can't speak personally to that, but it kills me every time you get 10,000 people claiming they have OCD, so I can imagine it'd be very similar. Especially given the folks with Aspergers I've actually known, and especially since ASD is often treated as less a disease and more an excuse for why you're an asshole.