Are people too hard on smokers?

[JET1971]

I am not danish, and this is an english website. links in english please because i am generaly curious but not so much to translate something that could be utter bullshit.

 

[hecticpicnic]

There is definitely a stigma.They wanted to contract "smoking is cool" but when a little too far.I don't think tobacco smells that bad, i think its like a placebo effect because we're told its bad we assume the strong smell is bad.

BTW. I smoke rarely usually with friends or bored, but its nice and relaxing and a great social drug.You don't get addicted and the less you smoke the less resistance you build up against it and it feels better.

 

[zehydra]

Yes but anyone who hates on them is a selfish prick. Though it's not just smoking, it works with drugs and alcohol as well. These are their choices and morality is such a personal opinion. You aren't alone on this planet so get over it.

The issue is that their habit also affects the well being of those around them.

We don't hate smokers, we hate the smoke, wherever it may be.

 

[zehydra]

I think ANYONE who starts up today, like just starts smoking now, are fucking idiots, we have all this information about it and how bad it is for you so why even start?

Same reasons that people start drinking, or eating poorly, or skydiving, or automobile racing, or...

drinking, yes, eating poorly, yes.

I'm not sure skydiving and car racing really count though. Skydiving and car racing are not activities which directly affect overall health by their very nature.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

I never have and never will smoke as I've been thoroughly cautioned against it from a young age. That being said I know many smokers and pretty much all of them are good people, it's their choice and I'm not going to lecture them about it.

 

[mandaforever]

I think part of it is that the vast majority of the Escapist's community are quite young. If I can (dimly) recall my youth correctly, it's a lot easier to hold absolutist positions when you're young and haven't been forced by life to compromise much yet. As you get older you are forced by the simple necessity of getting along in the world to take a more fluid stance on many issues or, if you don't, to become a bit (more) of a social outcast. Of course, many adults do hold absolutist positions on many things, but such people tend to be derided as "out of touch" or even "extremist".

thank you for saying this: the Escapist community is much, much younger than me and the crowds I am around, so these extremist views are foreign to me now. I do remember a time when I condemned smokers for their habits, but now that most of my friends smoke, I can see it from another point of view. Views change as you age, don't grasp onto your views so tightly, you will probably get a lot of negative attention, and that's just putting it lightly.

"shunning" people who eat fast food? Condemning smokers? These views may look silly and closed minded to some of you as you mature and are exposed to these things

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I think ANYONE who starts up today, like just starts smoking now, are fucking idiots, we have all this information about it and how bad it is for you so why even start?

Same reasons that people start drinking, or eating poorly, or skydiving, or automobile racing, or...

That's different altogether.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

I am not danish, and this is an english website. links in english please because i am generaly curious but not so much to translate something that could be utter bullshit.

In that case lets forget about the smelling problem beacuse it really isnt important to the central point anyway. There are still the matters of forcing medical problems on others because of an unneeded choice to smoke - again, reminding that medicinal use of drugs is another matter entirely and can easily be done without hurting others.

The issue is that their habit also affects the well being of those around them.
We don't hate smokers, we hate the smoke, wherever it may be.

Excatly! If smoke didnt affect others, people could smoke as much as they wanted and I would not care. The problem comes when they project their choices upon the world around and forces our possibility to choose out of the picture.

 

[mandaforever]

I think ANYONE who starts up today, like just starts smoking now, are fucking idiots, we have all this information about it and how bad it is for you so why even start?

Same reasons that people start drinking, or eating poorly, or skydiving, or automobile racing, or...

That's different altogether.

not really...skydiving maybe, but the other two things are easy to do and can be addictive, just like smoking. Everyone has bad habits, why condemn them for being human?

 

[floppylobster]

Weakness - "I can't give up smoking, I'm addicted to it."

Have you ever been addicted to nicotine/heroin/cocaine?

Not a fair comparison though - Nictoine is more addictive than heroin or cocaine.

I imagine a great many people carry this weakness.

I'm not saying it's fair at all. I'm just saying people use it as an early indicator or other potential problems. Fair or not, it's how many people think when deciding to date a smoker. There are hundreds of other early problem indicators that have nothing to do with smoking as well. Certainly I can feel bad for people who are addicted to smoking. But that doesn't mean I want to go out with them.

However you do bring up one more point - with all the advertising on the negative effects of smoking, being a smoker signals one more thing to a potential partner - (3) Poor Judgment. This person either ignored the bad press, and scientific evidence as to the health effects of smoking, or caved to peer pressure and started smoking.

As I said, certainly I can feel bad for people who are addicted to smoking. But that doesn't mean I want to go out with them (because of my original points and this new one). And those are some of the things the original poster wanted to know. They also asked - "Are people too hard on smokers?", so yes, I guess they are.

(Now that I think about it my sister was a smoker as well and she had (1) and (3).)

 

[EtherealBeaver]

Politely refuting that point mandaforever.

Skydiving and racing to not force anything on your surroundings and it has no harmful effects for people who happen to be near you and it is not possible to do while in groups so you can therefore not bother other people with them in the same way.

Sure it may be loud but if we keep it within legal limits and rule out street racing, then people who are not prepared to live the noise would probably not move close enough to said activities to be affected by it.

 

[mandaforever]

Politely refuting that point mandaforever.

Skydiving and racing to not force anything on your surroundings and it has no harmful effects for people who happen to be near you and it is not possible to do while in groups so you can therefore not bother other people with them in the same way.

Sure it may be loud but if we keep it within legal limits and rule out street racing, then people who are not prepared to live the noise would probably not move close enough to said activities to be affected by it.

kay, well I don't know anything about street racing, so thanks for informing me? Doesn't seem like there are enough parallels to smoking. Maybe for some people, but I don't see it. I am around people who smoke all the time.

 

[mandaforever]

I think part of it is that the vast majority of the Escapist's community are quite young. If I can (dimly) recall my youth correctly, it's a lot easier to hold absolutist positions when you're young and haven't been forced by life to compromise much yet. As you get older you are forced by the simple necessity of getting along in the world to take a more fluid stance on many issues or, if you don't, to become a bit (more) of a social outcast. Of course, many adults do hold absolutist positions on many things, but such people tend to be derided as "out of touch" or even "extremist".

Never a truer word spoken.

To be honest, I enjoy these forums less and less almost by the day, cause some of the shit I read on these boards...

agreed word for word

 

[EtherealBeaver]

kay, well I don't know anything about street racing, so thanks for informing me? Doesn't seem like there are enough parallels to smoking. Maybe for some people, but I don't see it. I am around people who smoke all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_racing
Street racing is basically illigally organised racing on public streets. Needless to say that safety is low, risk of accidents is relatively high and it makes a ton of noise. The parallel here would be that people can not choose not to be affected by it and they are in potential danger if they want to be on the street for whatever reason when the race is going on. Also, it usually happens at night when fewer people are around but it doesnt change the fact that people who are not interested in it are getting affected.

But that was offtopic I guess. You can read more about it on wikipedia if you are interested.

 

[Oro44]

There was a time where the sight of someone smoking would send me on a roaring rampage of revenge, because, frankly, I had some seriously bad experiences with smokers. Now, I still don't agree with it, it still makes me angry in the back of my head, but I've come to terms that people are free to make their bad decisions and I'm certainly not going to get in their face about it. I've made bad decisions, too. Quite a few. Its just not worth getting upset about.

 

[Scrythe]

Without really getting into it too much, I'm just going to point out that those "Truth" ads really go out of their way to make it look like the tobacco companies personally come down to your house, put a gun to your head and force you to smoke until you die.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who smoke are well aware of the risks involved.

 

[The Eyeball Moose]

In my opinion, you can never be too harsh on a smoker.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

I dont see how that refuted my original point. Personally I find racing very uninteresting and the sound somewhat annoying but if people like watching it they are welcome to do so. Only people who want to be there will actually be there because it costs money to get in (I imagine at least) or it requires that you actively chose it as your career. If it doesnt bother other people I see no reason why it should not be okay.

And yes, it does pump out a hell of a lot fumes and it is definately a grey area conceptually. Honestly I never considered that part as well so I have got to owe you that answer. I would imagine that it will be tied down to personal choice again though - people at such events will be the ones affected by it and people who are not there will not be directly affected since the fumes will most likely dissipate into the atmosphere before they get outside the area. I havent read up on it though so honestly it is all speculation.

And no fortunately I have yet to witness a serious crash. If I were to be cold I would, however, say that noone races without knowing that crashing is a risk inheirit in the sport and the same should be the case for the audience - or at least I hope that they know