Are RPGs Dead?

[Atmos Duality]

Not strictly "dead" in the classic sense of the word, but "dead" in a way similar to mecha games.
There's may one notable entry made every other year, but most of the genre boils down to niche appeal at most.

Someone will mention Titanfall if I don't, and that's good because Titanfall is actually why I chose the mecha example.
See, I'd never call Titanfall a mecha game because mechs aren't the focus (beyond marketing anyway).
It's really more of a CoD Clone with a couple mecha elements taped onto it.

And that pretty much describes RPGs now: A lot of games (especially popular games) use many RPG elements, but they aren't the genre focus or purpose. Every major shooter release now includes some form of unlock or Exp Grind to pad out gameplay for example.

Mass Effect (2 and 3 especially) is a great example too: They call it an RPG series, but the core gameplay is far more reminiscent of Gears of War than Baldur's Gate.

To find good RPG games, you have to dig, but they do exist.
(I'm eagerly looking forward to Divinity: Original Sin myself when I finish my full playthrough of Neverwinter Nights 2)

Taking FFXIII as an example, there was so much wrong with that game, and the sad part was that in my opinion it was the basics that were missing but I loved the game still because it tried something new and different.

Well, based on my experience with Squeenix's other titles from before and around FF13's release, it was different, but only in that they basically stripped as much of the "gameplay" aspect out of the "game" as they could.

What remains of FF13 plays like an extremely dumbed-down version of FF12. One character is controlled by the player, while the rest of the party follows a general strategy (Paradigms are more general than Gambits, but the concept is otherwise the same).

The other major change of course, was replacing the big open world with the infamous "Hallway".
It's dumbed down level design taken to its most extreme.

And that's really my biggest gripe with FF13 (something shared by others); they took so much gameplay out that what remained was this long, hyper-linear corridor of boring and tiresome scenes with very stupid writing (if you actually think about the plot, it's really stupid and not in the "charmingly simple" way other older games are. FF13 was deliberately aiming for high concept and landed squarely in the realm of 'convoluted').

Just to be clear, I don't hate FF12; the point wasn't to negatively juxtapose both games. I think it had a crap story, but I attribute that to the lead writer leaving the company halfway through FF12's long production, but the gameplay itself wasn't bad.

 

[Someone Depressing]

I suppose you're half-right.

Old school, western-style RPGs, like Wasteland, the original Elder Scrolls, ect, were always something of a niche until CRPGs brought them to the attention of the average gamer.

They have gotten something of a revival of the genre, but even that seems a tad niche, Skyrim and TES: Online aside. Then again, those niches are still very active.

 

[Windcaler]

Actually over the last couple of years we've gotten quite a few good RPGs. Most of them are PC only though so that might effect you if you only play on 1 console or just consoles. I have to admit that we dont get as many RPGs as I would like but to be fair RPGs take time to make, more so then most genres.

Some titles to check out include Divinity Original sin, Shadowrun returns (plus dragonfall), Banner saga, Blackguards, Wasteland 2, and Legend of heros: Trails in the sky (actually this is "new" in the sense that it came to PC in summer but still great). Valkyrie chronicles is also up on steam for pre-order right now (I really wouldnt pre-order it just wait for the actual game). There are other RPGs that have come out but theyre ones I havnt played so I wont put them on the list of other games that I think are good. Lets also not forget that Torment and Obsidians Eternity is still in the works

Out of bad RPGs the only recent one that comes to mind is victim of xen (and actually Im not sure that ones a bad game so much as the theme of forced transexuality makes me feel a bit uncomfortable)

However is that the fault of the gaming community? Yes and no. I think its our fault so far as sales go but by that logic were actually getting more RPGs then we were in the last few years. Consider Ys origins, trails in the sky, Valkyrie chronicles, and the slew of final fantasies we've seen on GOG and/or steam. All are JRPGs and not released on PC until years after their console counterparts. They were released on PC because developers saw there was demand for them and money to be made. So on that basis I think were on the rise for RPGs currently and I hope well see more RPGs coming out in recent years. However if a developer or publisher over reaches and expects several million sales to make a profit then thats their fault, not ours (and I kind of think thats how Dragon age inquisition is going to wind up).

If you want RPGs the best thing you or any of us can do is if you see an RPG you think is interesting buy it. If its not on your system discuss somewhere online how awesome it would be to have it on your system. Dark souls came to us via a discussion turned into a petition. When From software saw there was money to be made on our market we got Dark souls 2 and Lords of the fallen on PC. I hope they'll follow suite with a new Armored core and a remake of Kings field: The ancient city too.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

RPGs are about as dead as PC gaming.
Which they've been saying to be dead/dying for a long time.

So here is a quest for you, young necromancer. Raise the dead and build an RPG worthy of Mordor!

Don't mind me, I'm just being weird.

 

[Mikeybb]

I'm not entirely sure why RPGs would be dead just because people criticized final fantasy 13 for being a terrible game.

They wouldn't, that would be absurd.
I just pointed that out as an example of a company trying something new and getting their hand bitten, I see it happen all the time with new features, mechanics and games.

As to the above post, yea there is a bit of exaggeration in my OP, but as it says at the end it was just a bit of a rant. It is borne out of fear that this up and coming slew of AAA RPGs is going to be make or break, if they don't sell well companies will give up on the AAA side of RPGs which would be a crying shame. I love my indies and unheard of studios but would hate to miss out on the likes of our big titles.

I knew there was a reason I lurked on this website though, had I posted an incoherent mess like my OP on most other websites I would have been torn apart and mocked as a fool.

Thanks guys.

Even if the triple A falters, the indie scene for rpgs is going strong.
Pillar of eternity, wasteland 2, shadowrunand legend of grimrock series are feeding my nostalgic hunger for old school rpgs and doing so in a visually pleasing way.

You're right though, it would be a crying shame if the triple A gave up on the genre just like they did with space shooters and the like after wing commander faltered and ceased.
( side note, I'm hoping for a resurgence after elite-dangerous and star citizen land, but that's another thread on it's own)

I'm hoping that cyberpunk 2077 turns out to be an rpg, not just a shooter.
No idea how long it'll take them to get it done after they finish with witcher 3, but I'm still hoping.

 

[Prince of Ales]

The thing about FF13 is that it was bad in a number of different ways: the flat characters, the whole linearity of most of the game. But I agree the combat wasn't actually all that bad, and maybe it gets an unfair rap for that. It tried something new, and it didn't quite hit the mark but at least it tried. I think if they'd have made a better game overall people wouldn't be talking so badly about the combat. And I mean, the traditional FF combat system has seen its day... can't really do that again in the modern world.

 

[Signa]

legend of grimrock

There it is. Forty-fucking-five posts in. Jeeze people, if you call yourself a RPG fan, play this game! It's not like Jim didn't do an episode about it recently or anything!

 

[Saltyk]

Now that news is hitting of a potential FFVII remake, I'm just wondering if anyone else has found any hidden gems amongst the detrius.

Where have you heard of this? I just googled it and came up with no reliable information. Merely a rumor with a picture that obviously wasn't from anything Square did from about four months ago. Nothing concrete that would make me think it was evenly remotely true. Not even sure I would want that and I play FFVII once a year.

Every rumour is a potential truth hence why I said potential.
The timing seems about right though, they have put off this fan demand for so long for good reason but SQUEEEEEEENIX have recently stated that they were moving to a more classic style with some of their RPGs because of the whole Bravely Default fiasco (gamers dont wont stories, they want high visual fidelity on hair) when such a small simple title rocketed in popularity.

FFVII is still a great game to play, but the aesthetic and nostalgia is a big part of that, and if there is a remake I'm sure I will spend part of my soul on a special edition containing things I don't need but I doubt it will come close to the classic.

Also if your talking about the article http://www.kdramastars.com/articles/30149/20140724/final-fantasy-vii-remake.htm
Yea its not a trustworthy site but if you read it they do mention that screen cap is a load of bull.

I see. When you said there was a rumor of a potential remake, I thought there was something of notable substance to the rumor. Like way back when Square released that trailer of what FFVII would look like on PS3, it fueled rampant speculation of a remake and for good reason.

However, I have many reasons to worry about such a task. FFVII's systems are old so remaking the game exactly as it was in terms of combat and mechanics could certainly feel it. However, the last few FF games haven't had the best combat in my opinion and I would hate to have that ruined in one of my all time favorite games. I also worry how elements like Avalanche (a literal terrorist organization), bombing of power plants, and even Cloud cross dressing would be received in the media.

And yes, that article is exactly the one I found.

 

[Tatsuki]

I see. When you said there was a rumor of a potential remake, I thought there was something of notable substance to the rumor. Like way back when Square released that trailer of what FFVII would look like on PS3, it fueled rampant speculation of a remake and for good reason.

However, I have many reasons to worry about such a task. FFVII's systems are old so remaking the game exactly as it was in terms of combat and mechanics could certainly feel it. However, the last few FF games haven't had the best combat in my opinion and I would hate to have that ruined in one of my all time favorite games. I also worry how elements like Avalanche (a literal terrorist organization), bombing of power plants, and even Cloud cross dressing would be received in the media.

And yes, that article is exactly the one I found.

I get why people may have issues with the subject matter but you can't deny it would be a breath of fresh air dealing with an instance of terrorism from the other side playing characters that mostly feel justified in doing so.

As for the cross dressing, the only issue I see with that is that with high res skins you will see how pathetic cloud would actually look. At least his cross dressing polygons were left to the imagination somewhat which made it a campy joke in the original.

Who knows, in an ideal world we may get the game with updated graphics and only minor tweaks to the combat (and those tweaks are the things that were outright broken) and maybe some new weapons and materia. Oh and ofcourse up the chocobos dancing in the corral to a full blown musical number (And yes Nobuo Uematsu, I want you to compose)


...


You know thinking on the terrorism thing, I think the release of hatred is going to be a new benchmark for companies when it comes to "is it ok to release games with questionable morals".

 

[balladbird]

Eh, we get enough JRPGs to keep my playlist full. the Atelier series releases annually, nippon-ichi and other random small companies will throw out a budget title every now and again, hell, 2014 was the bloody year of the JRPG for the Vita... this year single-handedly quashed the complaint that the vita has no games on it... provided you like JRPGs/VNs. XD

WRPGs are more popular here, which makes sense, since this IS the market that created them. Though I'm not super fond of them. I like the games well enough, I guess, as long as they're not obviously trying too hard to be grim-dark and mature, but I hate the whole "paper-thin plot that's really just an excuse to explore the world doing sidequests" thing. Give me a rock solid central plot over that any day. one thing JRPGs have always done better, even if their stories are zany by western standards.

 

[John Santina]

Anyway, I think you're partially right in that it's gamers fault but I don't think in a bad way. The standard JRPG of "Revolutionary War" attacking (my side stands over here, your side stands over there, we hit each other until someone dies) just got too plain for most gamers. At this point, the "traditional RPG" has become niche BECAUSE people demand more from their games than ever before (for good or for ill).

If you're a fan of those games, it sucks because what was a big force in the market has now fallen from grace but that's the game industry for you; evolve or get left behind.

I think Trippy is just about right - it is the changing industry.

For me, it is bitter sweet. I have many great memories of playing RPGs when I was in high school. Time was in abundance and I could dedicate 50+ hours to a game.

These days, I work 9 hours a day, I'm married, baby on the way, run my music businesses on the side...I am too busy for most of the games I used to be able to play, which is heartbreaking sometimes.

That limits me more to the action RPGs, which I can get through without too much "grinding", which is required in a lot of the older JRPG style games.

There are still numerous great RPGs around which you may not have played, and there will always be more. There has just been a shift towards what sells bigger numbers.

 

[StriderShinryu]

RPGs aren't dead, but more pure RPGs are still a fairly niche genre to begin with and they are also extremely resource intensive (and thus expensive) to do well. To me, that's the one reason why RPGs are perhaps even more risk averse than many other genres. When you know you're going to be spending a lot of time/effort/money on a game that's likely to only reach a fairly small audience even if it sells really well, you're not likely to want to do something that's too out there.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Not sure. I think that RPGs have become too long with simply too much to do. I mean reviews of Dragon Age: Inquisition are coming in and say just the main story is almost 90hrs of gameplay! Or remember FF13? And how it got good 30hrs in? Or Skyrim just never god damn ending!
According to Steam I've clocked 36hrs on Dragon Age: Origins, and I just got to the dwarf kingdom. I shudder to think the time I've spent on Dragon's Dogma or the Fallout games.

I think game companies have misinterpreted long games as immersive/meaningful games. Some borderline Stockholm syndrome shit, where if we spend 30hrs with Lightning and Snow, we'll be invested in them. I couldn't tell you what 80% of the quests in Skyrim or Fallout 3 were, but you know what I do remember? FF6! a game you could beat in 30hrs, rather than finally get to the decent parts. Somehow that game sticks with me nearly 20 years later.

I'm not sure if RPGs are dead, but they've been on life-support for a very long time.

 

[Get_A_Grip_]

Oh yeah they're totally dead. We only had Dark Souls 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Wasteland 2, Divinity: Original Sin, South Park: The Stick of Truth to name a few that came out this year.

Also no-one at all would give a hoot if a new Elder Scrolls or Fallout was announced.

It's not like there are massive pre-orders for The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.

Persona 5 is on the horizon too.

Yep, ded genre.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Not dead, just need something new and interesting. Im bored of the medieval style with elves and dwarves and the cliche of JRPGs. Both styles can still be fun to play but both are cliche and been done to death. Mass Effect has shown that rpgs can be different and sell a ton. Just need to shake it up abit and take more risks with new settings, characters/races and stories.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

South Park: The Stick of Truth to name a few that came out this year.
Also no-one at all would give a hoot if a new Elder Scrolls or Fallout was announced.

All three i would love a new game of. Though i think we may be getting a Fallout 4 next year.....though i do say that every year. lol.

 

[RavingSturm]

If WoW's population is any indicator, its more alive now than its ever been.