Are story, plot and character necessary to make a good video game?

[moretimethansense]

I've watched a few videos on The Escapist by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, and he seems especially focused on what a game's story is, and the disposition of the characters. A video game-loving friend of mine feels the same way, and argues that games are artistic and emotionally edifying because of their stories and characters.

I've always felt that video games are more of a purely technical, problem-solving exercise, with stories thrown in for the sake of some bonus amusement; "Narratives" serve as distractions to the pure gameplay, and "characters" only have the personality of whoever is controlling them.

I thought I'd weigh in on an online forum inhabited by video game lovers of all ages and stripes: How valuable is a story to a video game? Are they integral or extraneous? Regardless of how much you may like a story or a character in a game, are they the one thing that makes the game worthwhile?

It's not essential in every game, but in some games it is.

Some of my favourite stories and charecters are from games, and I follow every medium so that's saying something.

 

[Heathrow]

We weren't talking about that so quit it already, fuck. I said sorry, get over it. We were talking about a definite story, not nit picking every element that could be considered a narrative. You want to go down that path, fine. I'm not doing this anymore.

You said, I am sorry you. Here is some advice that will take you far in life: If you wish to apologize to someone sincerely do not make their actions the subject of the apology, "I'm sorry you wasted your time" does not have any contrition in it. Try instead, "I'm sorry, I'm not up for learning something new today and I'd rather we just don't talk about this subject." When you apologize you should only apologize for your own behavior.

I personally apologize for putting that so bluntly, I do not try to talk over or insult, I only seek to have interesting discussions and to shape language in pleasing ways. I am not always successful at completing both those tasks to a satisfactory level but even then I am prideful and defensive of my work's substance, for that I also apologize.

I would hope that people are capable of seeing merit in ideas they don't necessarily understand.

If they go down the same route as Brawl then fuck yeah! I have no doubt what so ever. Just because a game uses the same theme, doesn't mean it's the same game. If the Smash Brothers franchise keeps goin' then Melee will always be around and I'll still be playing it.

I did not ask you if Melee could not be distinguished I asked what would distinguish Melee from a basically similar game that has better gameplay. Debating whether or not such a game will actually exist is beside the point. If SSBM is truly great you should be able to think of a handful of things that would still make Melee worth someone's time even after a better game comes to the franchise.

If you don't like me repeating ideas then read my posts thoroughly and understand their meaning before responding, then I will not have to explain the same things more than once.

Considering how enthusiastic Nintendo has shown themselves to be in screwing over competetive aspects of the Smash series in Brawl, it remains unlikely that there will ever be a smash Bros more well realized and intricate than melee unless some big changes occur in Nintendo.

Melee developed into a pretty interesting competetive game, I don't know why you're so eager to underrepresent its importance.

Nintendo has also nurtured the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon franchises, and, despite occasional missteps, those series have generally thrived over the years. I think it fits the pattern to assume that, given time, Nintendo will improve the quality of the SSB.

I have no interest in underrepresenting anything, only representing things realistically.

 

[Mr. Omega]

Mario didn't need it. And he still doesn't.
/thread.

 

[mireko]

No, not necessary. They certainly help, though. A good story (+ a good plot and good characters) provide for a completely different kind of experience, one that is often more enjoyable and memorable than one without them.

That isn't to say story-based games are inherently superior to plotless games, I just happen to prefer the games that contain those elements.

Furthermore, a good story can save an otherwise bad game, but a bad story won't destroy an already good game. It isn't integral, but if you want a game to be remembered, it will have to have something that goes beyond the gameplay and graphics. A lot of older RPGs are remembered for those aspects alone, and players will forgive a lot for them.

 

[Nazulu]

We weren't talking about that so quit it already, fuck. I said sorry, get over it. We were talking about a definite story, not nit picking every element that could be considered a narrative. You want to go down that path, fine. I'm not doing this anymore.

You said, I am sorry you. Here is some advice that will take you far in life: If you wish to apologize to someone sincerely do not make their actions the subject of the apology, "I'm sorry you wasted your time" does not have any contrition in it. Try instead, "I'm sorry, I'm not up for learning something new today and I'd rather we just don't talk about this subject." When you apologize you should only apologize for your own behavior.

I personally apologize for putting that so bluntly, I do not try to talk over or insult, I only seek to have interesting discussions and to shape language in pleasing ways. I am not always successful at completing both those tasks to a satisfactory level but even then I am prideful and defensive of my work's substance, for that I also apologize.

I would hope that people are capable of seeing merit in ideas they don't necessarily understand.

Get realistic, No one is going to say "I'm not learning something new today". Plus I said "Sorry to have wasted your time, I should have been more clear but I'm only talking a definite story and character". I never said 'you'.

If they go down the same route as Brawl then fuck yeah! I have no doubt what so ever. Just because a game uses the same theme, doesn't mean it's the same game. If the Smash Brothers franchise keeps goin' then Melee will always be around and I'll still be playing it.

I did not ask you if Melee could not be distinguished I asked what would distinguish Melee from a basically similar game that has better gameplay. Debating whether or not such a game will actually exist is beside the point. If SSBM is truly great you should be able to think of a handful of things that would still make Melee worth someone's time even after a better game comes to the franchise.

I misread it OK! And I already said that it's the game play that will distinguish it. Play Brawl and then play Melee and you will see they are very very different. Melee is a lot more loose, nowhere as confined as Brawl, and the way Nintendo is going at the moment I doubt they will change this after Brawl.

 

[Heathrow]

Get realistic, No one is going to say "I'm not learning something new today". Plus I said "Sorry to have wasted your time, I should have been more clear but I'm only talking a definite story and character". I never said 'you'.

You can use whatever words you want but don't think you have apologized when you have not. I didn't even particularly care to have an apology at all except that you, without prompting, felt it necessary to pretend to apologize in one breath and insult me in the context of the same.

I suppose, then, I should consider my olive branch rebuked?

I misread it OK! And I already said that it's the game play that will distinguish it. Play Brawl and then play Melee and you will see they are very very different. Melee is a lot more loose, nowhere as confined as Brawl, and the way Nintendo is going at the moment I doubt they will change this after Brawl.

I have played every SSB game since they came out to roughly the same level of mastery. The first is my personal favorite although probably for reasons of nostalgia. Melee was excellent but suffered from some minor balance issues and Brawl was pretty much more of the same with a few optional gameplay tweaks and some balance changes. There are small differences to be sure but if my house were on fire and the lives of all my loved ones hung in the balance I would not be able to pick a favorite from Melee and Brawl because they are essentially the same game.

You seem to be focusing specifically on the matter of "looseness" and "constriction" of the control. I noticed a slight balance change in control as well when I first played Brawl but after little effort I was able to pick up the new feel and play at a level as good at least if not better than I had in Melee.

I do not have a proper objective gauge of my skill so that I will not have to listen to the inevitable complaint that I, "didn't go deep enough into the gameplay." Or whatever thread you will choose to pick. All I can tell you is that I used to hold my own in a gamer's club I frequented back in college and I know a number of those people played at tournament level.

I wish we could discuss something interesting, like the idea that because character is mostly absent from these fighting games it is then the character of the friends we play with which defines our experience. Discussing how we use games as a tool for social interaction would also be a truly engaging subject. I would be very interested to hear the story of one of your fights, but if you wish to persist in trying to convince me that an average game is great I will continue to oppose you.

The series as a whole has more greatness in it than any one part held up alone.

 

[Nazulu]

Get realistic, No one is going to say "I'm not learning something new today". Plus I said "Sorry to have wasted your time, I should have been more clear but I'm only talking a definite story and character". I never said 'you'.

You can use whatever words you want but don't pretend you have apologized when you have not. I didn't even particularly care to have an apology at all except that you, without prompting, felt it necessary to pretend to apologize in one breath and insult me in the context of the same.

I suppose, then, I should consider my olive branch rebuked?

I don't waste my time pretending and I'm sick of how you talk to me and lecture me and assume shit. Go suck a lemon, I'm over it.

I misread it OK! And I already said that it's the game play that will distinguish it. Play Brawl and then play Melee and you will see they are very very different. Melee is a lot more loose, nowhere as confined as Brawl, and the way Nintendo is going at the moment I doubt they will change this after Brawl.

I have played every SSB game since they came out to roughly the same level of mastery. The first is my personal favorite although probably for reasons of nostalgia. Melee was excellent but suffered from some minor balance issues and Brawl was pretty much more of the same with a few optional gameplay tweaks and some balance changes. There are small differences to be sure but if my house were on fire and the lives of all my loved ones hung in the balance I would not be able to pick a favorite from Melee and Brawl because they are essentially the same game.

You seem to be focusing specifically on the matter of "looseness" and "constriction" of the control. I noticed a slight balance change in control as well when I first played Brawl but after little effort I was able to pick up the new feel and play at a level as good at least if not better than I had in Melee.

I do not have a proper objective gauge of my skill so that I will not have to listen to the inevitable complaint that I, "didn't go deep enough into the gameplay." Or whatever thread you will choose to pick. All I can tell you is that I used to hold my own in a gamer's club I frequented back in college and I know a number of those people played at tournament level.

I wish we could discuss something interesting, like the idea that because character is mostly absent from these fighting games it is then the character of the friends we play with which defines our experience. Discussing how we use games as a tool for social interaction would also be a truly engaging subject. I would be very interested to hear the story of one of your fights, but if you wish to persist in trying to convince me that an average game is great I will continue to oppose you.

The series as a whole has more greatness in it than any one part held up alone.

You are so wrong it hurts. If you truly believe they are the same then this is just one big fucking waste of my time If you can't see it. I gotta tell you, I hate Brawl, I really do. It's the perfect example of all flash and no substance. However, since you like shallow games then I'll just leave you to it.

You can oppose all you want but I'll always appreciate the freedom and design in Melee, it is a true work of art that not everyone can see. Just like so many powerful movies and songs, not everyone can see or hear the power.

 

[Heathrow]

I don't waste my time pretending and I'm sick of how you talk to me and lecture me and assume shit. Go suck a lemon, I'm over it.

You do not choose the meaning of your words, that meaning grows from all perspectives of the discourse equally. I have endeavored to understand what meaning you have drawn from my words, you have not done me the same courtesy.

I suppose that's all there is to be said on this stubborn subject.

You are so wrong it hurts. If you truly believe they are the same then this is just one big fucking waste of my time If you can't see it. I gotta tell you, I hate Brawl, I really do. It's the perfect example of all flash and no substance. However, since you like shallow games then I'll just leave you to it.

You can oppose all you want but I'll always appreciate the freedom and design in Melee, it is a true work of art that not everyone can see. Just like so many powerful movies and songs, not everyone can see or hear the power.

The differences are in syntax not in meaning.

You see a pinnacle where I see a route to climb higher. Your opinions are, as always, yours to keep. But I wonder what good they will do you, closed up as they are.

 

[Byere]

Snip

I would say that is a bad example because that time it was impossible to tell a story at all because of the storage capacity of any medium they had at hand simply wasn't enough to even fit in very much text.

You say that, and yet my Atari not only had Monkey Island but also Robinson's Requiem (possibly the most expansive RPG out of all the Atari/Amiga/etc gaming systems), which is longer than a few of the games of that genre are nowadays.

 

[andeve3]

They are not needed at all. However i respect developers who make an effort to tell an interesting story, or just tell a story well.

 

[Feriluce]

Single player? Yes obviously.

Multiplayer? Not really.

 

[Galletea]

Well I think if a game is supposed to deliver an all round entertaining experience then yes those things are essential. It's kinda pointless going through a plot that requires you to save people, for instance, if you don't care about anyone in the game.

Even games that are in their nature not really story driven, benefit from good characters. Take Katamari for example, without the King of All Cosmos, it wouldn't be half as fun.

 

[tombman888]

It really depends on the game. But i would say that they mostly add to the game experience... as long as they aren't crap.

 

[StormShaun]

Gameplay is all that matters to me, but good characters, story and plot make it much more intresting and fun...

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

I would say that is a bad example because that time it was impossible to tell a story at all because of the storage capacity of any medium they had at hand simply wasn't enough to even fit in very much text.

You say that, and yet my Atari not only had Monkey Island but also Robinson's Requiem (possibly the most expansive RPG out of all the Atari/Amiga/etc gaming systems), which is longer than a few of the games of that genre are nowadays.

Ok, let me rephrase that.

You had to strip out most gameplay for story, and you were extremely limited to text base adventures with limited graphics. It was hard to make a story work in game at all, so most developers either put in a single text screen at the beginning of the game or put the story entirely in the manual.