Are the forums too strict?

[Sonic Doctor]

Too strict? Dunno. Spotty moderation? Absolutely. The joy of user mods.

Anyway, Someone quotes or responds to you with some sheer brain-hurting stupidity, and when you point it out, they hit report and poof. It's all pretty silly, but it doesn't mean much in the long run. Kind of entertaining, in a way.

It isn't silly. The point is you can't point out to someone they are beings stupid, meaning you can't insult them, it is a forum rule. Instead of just saying somebody is stupid, it is civil to just tell that person plainly that he or she is wrong, then rationally explain why.

A well thought out argument against what people say is more powerful than insulting them, insulting people just entrenches them more into thinking they are right.

As the old adage goes: Once someone resorts to name calling and insults, you know you have won the argument.

So, it isn't silly if somebody gets reprimanded for rudely and directly saying somebody is wrong.

------------

I don't think the Escapist is too strict. I always wonder why some people think they are going to get away with saying some of the things they do.

I have received one warning since I have been here, I might not have thought it was a fair warning, but really no harm done. A mod had posted that commenting about a certain topic in a thread would cease, while I was making comment about that certain topic. It was a really long comment, took me about 10 minutes to type, while unbeknownst to me, five minutes into typing the mod had made that warning post about that certain topic. So I made the post without knowing and was kind of blindsided by that one.

From now on, I open up a separate tab to refresh and see if any mods have made declarations on anything.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Its all over the place. Sometimes it seems too strict, sometimes not strict enough, and sometimes just right.

That wouldn't be "Postilocks and the Three Mods" would it? =P

 

[Irridium]

Its all over the place. Sometimes it seems too strict, sometimes not strict enough, and sometimes just right.

That wouldn't be "Postilocks and the Three Mods" would it? =P

Maybe...

Also, as someone pointed out above, it seems this thread is set to not be bumped to the top when someone replies to it. I could make a snarky comment about it, but I feel it speaks for itself.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Its all over the place. Sometimes it seems too strict, sometimes not strict enough, and sometimes just right.

That wouldn't be "Postilocks and the Three Mods" would it? =P

Maybe...

Also, as someone pointed out above, it seems this thread isn't bumped to the top when someone replies to it. I could make a snarky comment about it, but I feel it speaks for itself.

I don't know, I'd chalk it up to the possibility there is a lot of traffic on many different threads, it might be getting bumped down faster than normal.

 

[Irridium]

Its all over the place. Sometimes it seems too strict, sometimes not strict enough, and sometimes just right.

That wouldn't be "Postilocks and the Three Mods" would it? =P

Maybe...

Also, as someone pointed out above, it seems this thread isn't bumped to the top when someone replies to it. I could make a snarky comment about it, but I feel it speaks for itself.

I don't know, I'd chalk it up to the possibility there is a lot of traffic on many different threads, it might be getting bumped down faster than normal.

Nah, it doesn't bump. I've been refreshing the first page of off-topic, and haven't seen it pop up. Its on Page 5 right now, and hasn't moved since 9:16PM. Even throughout this conversation.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

*Snip*

Nah, it doesn't bump. I've been refreshing the first page of off-topic, and haven't seen it pop up. Its on Page 5 right now, and hasn't moved since 9:16PM. Even throughout this conversation.

Hmm, it's a conspiracy!

Hide the jelly babies and pass out the tinfoil hats!

No wait! Fezzes are cooler!

=P

 

[maddawg IAJI]

What he fails to tell you is that he was being 'satrical' several times in that thread and was caught insulting other users.

Also, to anyone who believes they have a problem with any of the moderators, then please send in the appeal form that comes with your punishment or post in the mod team's group (Which can be found here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team]

May I ask how the appeals process work exactly then? I am curious to compare things.

In case it hasn't been answered yet,

Every time you get put on probation or suspended, you get a chance to send an appeal to one of the staff members. Normally, it would be taken care of by Kuliani, but do to his leaving, they now go to another staff member according to Spinwhiz's post in the moderation group. If you can convince them, your punishment will be lifted.

Yeah they're too strict.
Never been put on probation myself, but I swear half the time people are put on probation the mods are just having a really bad day.

It depends which mod finds what you've said I suppose. I got put on probation yesterday for being satirical about Americans celebrating Osamas death...

Yeah that's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Yes you were being controversial, but what you said was related to the thread's topic and wasn't especially offensive or anything...don't understand.


Then there are some times I see people put on probation for a post that, no matter how much i analyse, can see no fault in whatsoever.

What he fails to tell you is that he was being 'satrical' several times in that thread and was caught insulting other users.

Also, to anyone who believes they have a problem with any of the moderators, then please send in the appeal form that comes with your punishment or post in the mod team's group (Which can be found here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/chat/Moderation-Team]

That appeal form you mention. I've tried to use it before, even changing or re-entering the email address.

I've never gotten a response. I'm fairly sure its something I'm doing and the email address always has apostrophes all through it.

Not sure.

Regardless, while I disagree with a couple people being made mods, I think its wrong to put all mods in the same kettle. For example, I disagree with a lot of LaCoils opinions, and vocally. She's still a good mod, albeit was/is strict. Nukes a legend. Cold-storage is great. Baby tea is pure class. A lot of the mod's I don't have an opinion on, they're very wishy washy, which makes sense (mod being short for moderator, see moderate).

For example, I've been here substantially longer than you. I've conversed with a lot of the mods before they were mods. I was put on suspension (probation) for some posts I made in an argument with Greyfox. I don't get along with her, and never really did and heavily disagree with her being made a mod. Regardless, the moderation is all usually done anonymously, and complaints are usually told to be directed at some Mod group. I could suggest that this is so that less of it is said, and less complaints are seen, but its probably just to keep the forum from dirtying up. I recall conversing with you a couple times, ironically I was telling you not to backseat mod (from memory).

All this having been said. I've seen some disgraceful bans in my time. Russ Pitts - Smelly Pitts banning was a bad one. Metatron. Zeeky Santos. Etc Etc.

In conclusion, I wouldn't say the mods are too strict, the forums are decent level they are partially because of them. I would say however that a few mods jump the gun, and there is ambiguous arbitrary calls made on vague and somewhat unclear calls made by a non-transparent group. Clearly this is hard to agree with, even fully recognizing the fact the Escapist is a for-profit business venture.

BTW Guys. Anyone who thinks the mods are too strict wasn't lurking in the old days of Joe. I saw some hilarious mass-bannings.
@Maddawg - It's spelled argument damnit! - Forgot to mention how I don't like the way - mass reports = banning. I've been told by a mod/s that someones gone through and spammed report all my posts.

Well I don't chose the moderators Chops, the community manager does. I can't tell you I was expecting that PM in my inbox asking me if I wished to be a moderator.

As for the typo, I was in a rush and put too much hope in my spell checker D= and mass=reports doesn't always equal bans. Repeated offenses= bans.

 

[Hader]

In case it hasn't been answered yet,

Every time you get put on probation or suspended, you get a chance to send an appeal to one of the staff members. Normally, it would be taken care of by Kuliani, but do to his leaving, they now go to another staff member according to Spinwhiz's post in the moderation group. If you can convince them, your punishment will be lifted.

So is it one person then? And is it always the same person? I'd advocate at least a group of people looking at an appeal to decide on it, over one person. Probably doesn't affect much, but it's a bit more fair and grants more coverage in case of one's absence.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

In case it hasn't been answered yet,

Every time you get put on probation or suspended, you get a chance to send an appeal to one of the staff members. Normally, it would be taken care of by Kuliani, but do to his leaving, they now go to another staff member according to Spinwhiz's post in the moderation group. If you can convince them, your punishment will be lifted.

So is it one person then? And is it always the same person? I'd advocate at least a group of people looking at an appeal to decide on it, over one person. Probably doesn't affect much, but it's a bit more fair and grants more coverage in case of one's absence.

I don't know how many people are part of it, I just learned the news about literally a few moments ago due to being away from the computer all day. If you want a more accurate answer to your question, I would talk to Spinwhiz. He can answer and explain it better then I can and he's probably the one you wanna make your suggestion to.

 

[Hader]

I don't know how many people are part of it, I just learned the news about literally a few moments ago due to being away from the computer all day. If you want a more accurate answer to your question, I would talk to Spinwhiz. He can answer and explain it better then I can and he's probably the one you wanna make your suggestion to.

I don't have much interest in it, was just kinda comparing it to the system at another site I frequent (and also moderate). The fact that you can appeal suspensions is good though.

 

[teh_spartan]

lol at Sir John the Net Knight looks like that "tiny toad" got you.

anyway i think that the forums are not too strict but i have seen a growing number of people on probation or suspended for things the moderators think are "offensive"

Blame the new moderators.

"Offense" is subjective, arbitrary and nonsensical. You can't have debate without offence.

i was actualy given a warning for my post!

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[GeorgW]

Hi, mod here and I'd love to answer any of your questions, just quote me.
This is a long thread and I'm sure most things have already been handled, but I'll try to sum it all up.

First off, if you have a problem, like if you feel you've been wrongly put on probation, we have an appeal board just for that. This is also only for the person wronged, you have nothing to say if you feel someone else has been misjudged, you can't possibly know the whole story. Please don't make threads or such just to complain about a certain action, this is a private matter. If you have a problem with a specific mod, then take it up with the admins. Kuliani used to handle it, I'm not sure who now. Try [user]Spinwhiz[/user].

For the people who think it's not strict enough, if you see anything, please report it. I assure you if just one person reports something it will be taken care of in a timely manner. We just got more mods, myself included, and I don't see anything not taken care of for long, as long as it's reported.

If you think someone has been judged too harshly, keep in mind that we judge primarily based on record more than content. (I put this in italics cuz it seems like most complaints are from people who don't know this) So if someone called someone else an asshole and was suspended for a week, that's not cuz the mod was in a bad mood or something, it's cuz this person has called people assholes 10 times that week and shows no signs of regret.

For the people that have a problem with the rules, yes they are non-specific, and they are that for a reason. The mods are carefully chosen and are trusted with a huge responsibility. One of the criteria are being able to use good judgment. I trust my fellow mods to be able to know if a post is meant harshly or not, and to judge accordingly. You're always welcome to state your mind and make jokes, the big difference is in how you do it. For example, when it comes to the Escapist's contributors you are very welcome to provide constructive criticism or simply state that it isn't for you, but it is never okay to simply rage. The difference is a judgment call, that you simply have to trust us with. Remember, you can always appeal.

As for me personally, I try to be generally forgiving, and I can appreciate a good joke. However, if I need to I will bring down the hammer, and hard. I do what I can, and since I'm still new, if I'm doubtful about something I'll ask someone else or just let it be for someone else.

I think I've covered everything, if you still have questions, feel free to quote or PM me, or just take it up with The mod team group [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Moderation-Team].

 

[bdcjacko]

I noticed this is already on page 6, but I want to comment on what I know of this site through my own interactions. Does it annoy me that people that I see as trolls and hecklers are protected here? Yes. But then I realize I can be seen as a troll or heckler or a jackass, and sometime I am just that. But the thing is I have talked to many mods, gotten a handful of warning, probations and suspensions overturned or shorten when I talked to them politely and told them my case. Admittedly sometimes it annoys me that I didn't win each time, but that is life.

The fact that I have been given friendly warnings to drop certain issues and they even told me in polite terms that no I was being a jack ass a deserve the punishment says the staff wants me here. And I appreciate the time and attention they have given me when I have probably just been a pain in their ass.

 

[Xhu]

Hi, mod here and I'd love to answer any of your questions, just quote me.
This is a long thread and I'm sure most things have already been handled, but I'll try to sum it all up.

First off, if you have a problem, like if you feel you've been wrongly put on probation, we have an appeal board just for that.

I have a question about that. How does the appeal system work, exactly? How is it decided to sustain or overturn a punishment, and by whom?

 

[GeorgW]

Hi, mod here and I'd love to answer any of your questions, just quote me.
This is a long thread and I'm sure most things have already been handled, but I'll try to sum it all up.

First off, if you have a problem, like if you feel you've been wrongly put on probation, we have an appeal board just for that.

I have a question about that. How does the appeal system work, exactly? How is it decided to sustain or overturn a punishment, and by whom?

By whom is kind of iffy right now, you should probably ask the admins about that, they used to handle it at least. And it works simply by having someone review the post in question, and to see if the punishment was just. I'm not sure what aspects are taken into consideration, but I'd assume that the person that makes the appeal makes their case and if the judge or whatever you can call it agrees it's removed. I haven't been part of any, so I simply don't know. Your best bet if you really want to know more in detail is to ask Spinwhiz or the mod group, links are in my post.

 

[GeorgW]

Hi, mod here and I'd love to answer any of your questions, just quote me.
This is a long thread and I'm sure most things have already been handled, but I'll try to sum it all up.

First off, if you have a problem, like if you feel you've been wrongly put on probation, we have an appeal board just for that.

I have a question about that. How does the appeal system work, exactly? How is it decided to sustain or overturn a punishment, and by whom?

By whom is kind of iffy right now, you should probably ask the admins about that, they used to handle it at least. And it works simply by having someone review the post in question, and to see if the punishment was just. I'm not sure what aspects are taken into consideration, but I'd assume that the person that makes the appeal makes their case and if the judge or whatever you can call it agrees it's removed. I haven't been part of any, so I simply don't know. Your best bet if you really want to know more in detail is to ask Spinwhiz or the mod group, links are in my post.

Do you feel you must actively misrepresent your own feelings/opinions towards actions made by staff of this site in order to 'fit in' with the other mods?

Do you feel that Spinwhiz, Russ Pits and others hold the opinion that they are above criticism and are automatically right?

@Maddawg - Nah, it really is mass reports = bans. From the horses mouth.

No, I think the mods and admins do well pretty much all the time, we all work hard to help out. Also I don't believe in censorship, so if I have a problem I will say so.
I asked if I could put the admins on probation and such if I felt it was needed. They said that that kind of stuff would be handled internally by their boss. Take that as you will, but I've talked a lot with Spin and he's a good guy.