are we looking at the return of a sony-dominated generation?

[NuclearKangaroo]

Regarding Nintendo saving the Wii U:

im still pissed by how poorly researched was the innovation episode


but theres some logic behind this, while i dont think nintendo's crusade agaisnt youtube robbed them of their destiny as the leaders of this new console generation, it certainly did them no favors, specially since like GT said, YT personalities do influence game sales, hell its the main reason why games like goat simulator and surgeon simulator sell

 

[NiPah]

My thoughts are ya'll fools got played.

Sony was going for EXACTLY the same thing MS was, which you can see from news reports on this very site, some of them hilariously having important bits in bold which everyone seems to have ignored.

They simply out waited the competition and grabbed the opportunity to fuck them, brutally.
So rather than cutting off used games right away you bought yourself a couple years before it becomes more profitable for publishers to stop making physical copies all together and you end up with an online requirement and Sony and MS coming out of it all innocent.

Endgame result's the same, only you got tricked you won. You didn't, Sony did.

That's some pretty ace conspiracy theory right there.

Do tell us, when will Sony implement this new always online requirement? I want to set a reminder on my iPhone so I can escape to my fortress of things that mattered 4 years ago.

 

[Ieyke]

Regarding Nintendo saving the Wii U:

im still pissed by how poorly researched was the innovation episode


but theres some logic behind this, while i dont think nintendo's crusade agaisnt youtube robbed them of their destiny as the leaders of this new console generation, it certainly did them no favors, specially since like GT said, YT personalities do influence game sales, hell its the main reason why games like goat simulator and surgeon simulator sell

Actually, I think he knew exactly what he was doing with the innovation episode.
I disagreed with a lot of that episode too, but that was the first part in the trilogy of episodes.
This was the last video.
It kinda all makes sense when you get to this episode.

On its own, "Game Theory: Wii U is the New Virtual Boy" seemed horribly off target, but with all three videos together, I think he essentially knew what he was doing.

 

[Eddie the head]

My thoughts are ya'll fools got played.

Sony was going for EXACTLY the same thing MS was, which you can see from news reports on this very site, some of them hilariously having important bits in bold which everyone seems to have ignored.

Ok I've herd people say this a lot, but I've yet to see any good evidence that that's the case. And no I don't count vague statements that basically say "just look at it man." That's kind of begging the question.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Regarding Nintendo saving the Wii U:

im still pissed by how poorly researched was the innovation episode


but theres some logic behind this, while i dont think nintendo's crusade agaisnt youtube robbed them of their destiny as the leaders of this new console generation, it certainly did them no favors, specially since like GT said, YT personalities do influence game sales, hell its the main reason why games like goat simulator and surgeon simulator sell

Actually, I think he knew exactly what he was doing with the innovation episode.
I disagreed with a lot of that episode too, but that was the first part in the trilogy of episodes.
This was the last video.
It kinda all makes sense when you get to this episode.

On its own, "Game Theory: Wii U is the New Virtual Boy" seemed horribly off target, but with all three videos together, I think he essentially knew what he was doing.

he cherry picked examples all the way

yes COD sells trucks load, but why not spec ops the line, medal of honor and rogue warrior?

he forgot or maybe even ignored crucial pieces of information, like the fact the amount of people that gets into gaming keep increasing, for instance, the xbox360 sold more than the NES and the sega master system, combined

also Super Mario Bros is certainly the best selling game of the franchise, too bad he forgot to mention it was bundled with every single NES in north america, so if you bought a NES then, and even if you werent interested in mario, that still counts as a unit sold for SMB


among others things, it was a complete mess

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal whereas the collection of crap is dominated by Sony's consoles. As they were the more popular systems, they also had more junk released for them.

So by and large, if Sony pulls out ahead, as the Wii did in the previous gen, then there's more likely to be more crap games than good ones (as also the Wii has proved). So generationally speaking having the "best selling" system in the console wars does not mean you have the best games, but rather more of them with quality games amounting to roughly the same as the second place console.

So best selling doesn't always mean "best" overall.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

 

[Cerebrawl]

While the playstation side of things have always had good japanese developer exclusives(at least if you like JRPGs), the last time Sony had the dominant platform was the PS2.

The PC has been and will continue to be the dominant platform for some time. Because aside from being the most powerful and having the best input methods, it doesn't have to restart building its user base with every generation. Sure people upgrade or buy new PCs, but they get to keep their old stuff, and they haven't switched platforms. It basically snowballs, just adding more and more as time goes on, while the consoles reach the end of their lifespan and start over, PC just keeps on rolling. Oh and then there's the indies and just massively greater number of games being made for it.

Steam alone has more users than either console side's two latest generations(IE: 360+xbone or PS3+4).

The only thing consoles dominate is support from the biggest, most consumer unfriendly publishers, and we know that this is at least partially because they get big bribes from the console companies. Most of it trickles over to PC, or starts out multiplatform anyway, but it's still just a drop in the bucket compared to PC exclusives. It's shiny though!

 

[Ieyke]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

And the PSX actually had even more great games than the PS2.

Nostalgia rules simply do not apply.
I actually go back and play NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Dreamcast, PSX, and PS2 games pretty frequently.

The PSX and SNES probably had the two highest concentrations of great games, followed by the PS2. The recent generations genuinely don't come close.

PSX Games:
Suikoden
Suikoden II
MegaMan 8
MegaMan X3
MegaMan X4
MegaMan X5
MegaMan X6
MegaMan Legends
MegaMan Legends 2
The Misadventures of Tron Bonne
Xenogears
Azure Dreams
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy 2
Final Fantasy 3
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Alundra
Alundra 2
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue Complete
Thousand Arms
Wild Arms
Blood Omen:Legacy Of Kain
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Ape Escape
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Brave Fencer Musashi
Castlevania Chronicles
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Crash Bandicoot
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped
Darkstalkers
Darkstalkers 3
Diablo
Grand Theft Auto 2
Grandia
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
Harvest Moon: Back To Nature
The Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Mana
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
Marvel Super Heroes
Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
MediEvil
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Slug
Monster Rancher
Monster Rancher 2
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus
Tactics Ogre
PaRappa the Rapper
Rayman
Rayman 2
Resident Evil
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Silent Hill
SimCity 2000
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage!
Spyro: Year of the Dragon
Street Fighter Alpha: Warrior's Dreams
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Street Fighter EX Plus Alpha
Street Fighter EX2 Plus
Strider 2
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Syphon Filter 2
Tekken
Tekken 2
Tekken 3
Tenchu: Stealth Assassins
Tenchu 2: Birth of the Stealth Assassins
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear
Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider II
Tomba!
Tomba! 2: The Evil Swine Return
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Twisted Metal
Twisted Metal 2
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Worms Armageddon
X-COM: UFO Defense
X-COM: Terror from the Deep

That's not at all a comprehensive list.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

That's some pretty ace conspiracy theory right there.

Do tell us, when will Sony implement this new always online requirement? I want to set a reminder on my iPhone so I can escape to my fortress of things that mattered 4 years ago.

Did you even read what I said? They won't, they don't have to. Publishers will do that for them, Sony and MS just gave them a way how.

They've been pushing for Sony and MS to go online and kill used game sales that are a cancer on the industry for years.
When new consoles were on the doorstep we all knew what was coming, just because MS went first and clever people in Sony realized that using the backlash against MS will profit them more than pleasing publishers doesn't mean Sony suddenly grew a halo and became your best friend. This is painfully obvious to anyone that doesn't have a stake on the issue.

Both consoles are exactly the same shit and they are made by companies that are exactly the same shit.

 

[NiPah]

Did you even read what I said? They won't, they don't have to. Publishers will do that for them, Sony and MS just gave them a way how.

They've been pushing for Sony and MS to go online and kill used game sales that are a cancer on the industry for years.
When new consoles were on the doorstep we all knew what was coming, just because MS went first and clever people in Sony realized that using the backlash against MS will profit them more than pleasing publishers doesn't mean Sony suddenly grew a halo and became your best friend. This is painfully obvious to anyone that doesn't have a stake on the issue.

Both consoles are exactly the same shit and they are made by companies that are exactly the same shit.

Hmm, so you're saying Sony didn't announce any plans for online requirements, choose to side with consumers over publishers, took advantage of Microsoft who did plan for online requirements and sided with the publishers, and that Sony isn't a saint.

Funny, then you go on to say they are exactly the same.

Honestly I think the facts that you just stated above make them quite different.

Oh and Sony/Microsoft have given the publishers a way to lock out used game sales since the PS3/360 first came out, it's just that no publisher has been dumb enough to fully implement the feature or they went with a multiplayer only title.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

While the playstation side of things have always had good japanese developer exclusives(at least if you like JRPGs), the last time Sony had the dominant platform was the PS2.

The PC has been and will continue to be the dominant platform for some time. Because aside from being the most powerful and having the best input methods, it doesn't have to restart building its user base with every generation. Sure people upgrade or buy new PCs, but they get to keep their old stuff, and they haven't switched platforms. It basically snowballs, just adding more and more as time goes on, while the consoles reach the end of their lifespan and start over, PC just keeps on rolling. Oh and then there's the indies and just massively greater number of games being made for it.

Steam alone has more users than either console side's two latest generations(IE: 360+xbone or PS3+4).

The only thing consoles dominate is support from the biggest, most consumer unfriendly publishers, and we know that this is at least partially because they get big bribes from the console companies. Most of it trickles over to PC, or starts out multiplatform anyway, but it's still just a drop in the bucket compared to PC exclusives. It's shiny though!

I guess the entire point of this thread has been neatly summed up and can now safely be closed, case closed and never another topic with a console never to be mentioned again.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

Hmm, so you're saying Sony didn't announce any plans for online requirements, choose to side with consumers over publishers, took advantage of Microsoft who did plan for online requirements and sided with the publishers, and that Sony isn't a saint.

They chose to side with consumers over publishers because they got an opportunity to make more money by using the backclash against MS to sell more consoles.

If Sony revealed their console first the situation now would be exactly reversed. Well maybe not, but just because people in charge of Xbone seem to be idiots and wouldn't be clever enough.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

And the PSX actually had even more great games than the PS2.

Nostalgia rules simply do not apply.
I actually go back and play NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Dreamcast, PSX, and PS2 games pretty frequently.

The PSX and SNES probably had the two highest concentrations of great games, followed by the PS2. The recent generations genuinely don't come close.

PSX Games:
Suikoden
Suikoden II
MegaMan 8
MegaMan X3
MegaMan X4
MegaMan X5
MegaMan X6
MegaMan Legends
MegaMan Legends 2
The Misadventures of Tron Bonne
Xenogears
Azure Dreams
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy 1
Final Fantasy 2
Final Fantasy 3
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 5
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 9
Alundra
Alundra 2
Lunar Silver Star Story Complete
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue Complete
Thousand Arms
Wild Arms
Blood Omen:Legacy Of Kain
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Ape Escape
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Brave Fencer Musashi
Castlevania Chronicles
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Chrono Cross
Chrono Trigger
Crash Bandicoot
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back
Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped
Darkstalkers
Darkstalkers 3
Diablo
Grand Theft Auto 2
Grandia
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
Harvest Moon: Back To Nature
The Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Mana
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
Marvel Super Heroes
Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
MediEvil
Metal Gear Solid
Metal Slug
Monster Rancher
Monster Rancher 2
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus
Tactics Ogre
PaRappa the Rapper
Rayman
Rayman 2
Resident Evil
Resident Evil 2
Resident Evil 3
Silent Hill
SimCity 2000
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage!
Spyro: Year of the Dragon
Street Fighter Alpha: Warrior's Dreams
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Street Fighter EX Plus Alpha
Street Fighter EX2 Plus
Strider 2
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Syphon Filter
Syphon Filter 2
Tekken
Tekken 2
Tekken 3
Tenchu: Stealth Assassins
Tenchu 2: Birth of the Stealth Assassins
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear
Tomb Raider
Tomb Raider II
Tomba!
Tomba! 2: The Evil Swine Return
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4
Twisted Metal
Twisted Metal 2
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Worms Armageddon
X-COM: UFO Defense
X-COM: Terror from the Deep

That's not at all a comprehensive list.

i am convinced the PS2 had far more good games, im just too lazy to look for myself, but you can check metacrtic

 

[NiPah]

Hmm, so you're saying Sony didn't announce any plans for online requirements, choose to side with consumers over publishers, took advantage of Microsoft who did plan for online requirements and sided with the publishers, and that Sony isn't a saint.

They chose to side with consumers over publishers because they got an opportunity to make more money by using the backclash against MS to sell more consoles.

If Sony revealed their console first the situation now would be exactly reversed. Well maybe not, but just because people in charge of Xbone seem to be idiots and wouldn't be clever enough.

I'm still going to say it's a bit harsh to say Sony is as bad as Microsoft just because Microsoft chose to flip out and shoot themselves in the foot. Sony is, quite frankly, very stupid when it comes to a lot of their decisions, but the only company that should be shit on for Microsoft's screw ups pre-Xbox 1 launch in Microsoft, don't drag Sony into the ground for Microsoft's incompetence.

There is ample evidence that Sony sometimes chooses to be anti-consumer, PSVita's Memory cards is an obvious example, but when they choose to not implement always online consoles and crippling region locking DRM then they are not the bad guys.

And Publishers also shouldn't be attacked either, yes the aforementioned policies would have helped them, yes they were most likely pushing Microsoft and Sony to implement them, but to this date the only company who actually planned to do so was Microsoft and it is because of this they are still suffering a wave of backlash that I'd argue they are still suffering the consequences of.

When EA and Activision choose to implement these features then I'll also be quite pissed at them, when the time comes.

 

[Eve Charm]

Eh the thing is it feels more like how it was with the ps2 being the major hit that the ps3 wasn't, Sony getting lucky again. Since the Wii-u shot it self in the foot and MS put there foot in their mouth and shoved their head up somewhere else Like sony did with the PS3 at launch time, PS4 just seems to be winning off having more power and not pissing anyone off enough even tho paying for plus to play online... Which is why I don't think any console will be dominate for very long.

It probably going to be another stalemate. While Sony may sell more, as a company as a whole they don't have the kinda money MS can get to throw around on exclusives and marketing, and with basically just two consoles getting third party suppore it's to hard to try and go without it.

 

[Evonisia]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

For every Ico and Silent Hill 3 there were fifty poorly designed racer games, generic movie tie in games, bad rip off horror games, generic shooters and generic platformers.

It's just a simple fact. Like how the Wii sold the most of its generation, therefore it got all the terrible games with the hopes that people would buy them. Same for the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 1.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

For every Ico and Silent Hill 3 there were fifty poorly designed racer games, generic movie tie in games, bad rip off horror games, generic shooters and generic platformers.

It's just a simple fact. Like how the Wii sold the most of its generation, therefore it got all the terrible games with the hopes that people would buy them. Same for the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 1.

i dont see how the existence of bad game in any way shape or form affects my enjoyment of good games


the big difference between the wii and the PS2, is that, atleast according to metacritic (i use this to have a more or less objective way to meansure this) the PS2 had much more quality game releases than its competitors, regardless of the amount of shitty games

 

[Ieyke]

Nostalgia rules state that the "golden age of Sony" (AKA PS1/PS2 eras) aren't as great as you thought. I have a large collection of games from those eras from all the major consoles, and the actual amount of great games is about equal...

i heavily disagree, i suggest you count again

Ico, SotC, GoW, Okami, MGS, Persona, etc, so many amazing games released exclusively on the PS2

For every Ico and Silent Hill 3 there were fifty poorly designed racer games, generic movie tie in games, bad rip off horror games, generic shooters and generic platformers.

It's just a simple fact. Like how the Wii sold the most of its generation, therefore it got all the terrible games with the hopes that people would buy them. Same for the PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 1.

You're not actually making a meaningful point. You realise that, right?

 

[Atmos Duality]

They chose to side with consumers over publishers because they got an opportunity to make more money by using the backclash against MS to sell more consoles.

If Sony revealed their console first the situation now would be exactly reversed. Well maybe not, but just because people in charge of Xbone seem to be idiots and wouldn't be clever enough.

This of course, hinges on the fact that the PS4 was just as bad as the pre-180 Xbone.
A fact you have yet to actually provide any real evidence for.

I wouldn't doubt it if Big Publishers wanted hardline DRM in a mass-market system; they've proven that's what they would do if not for consumers getting rightly mad every time they try to do it.

But I need evidence of that actually happening; not hypothesis and "what if" scenarios based on pure assumptions.