Arguments used to defend games/movies etc. you're tired of seeing

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Basically, anything that amounts to a pretentious "you're a moron" response to me saying "I don't see the appeal," or "I just don't like it, here's why."
You can argue with me until you're blue in the face, but we're not talking fact here. We speak on subjectivity, personal preference, even PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE. When dealing opinion, your opinion is valid from your perspective, mine is valid from mine. There are no arguments that allow you to "win" an argument. No one WINS an argument. It is a waste of energy.
Now debating pros and cons of subject matter is much more healthy. It gives folks insight on how you see things and in turn, if you and the person you're having the debate with are open-minded enough, gives you insight on how the other side sees things. If you can't go into a debate with open-minds then you're just arguing and it won't do any good.
And your personal opinions do not make you better than the rest of the world, that is pretentious and actually lowers your outward value to other folks you come into contact with. We're all going to have different reasons for liking or disliking things, and those differences are what is called "diversity", what makes life interesting. But if you're just a jackass about your opinions, you aren't interesting.

 

[Nieroshai]

When you point out x,y or z and people just say "yeah that's fair enough, I enjoyed it despite x,y or z" or "I can see that, but I quite like x,y or z" it's like why can't they just agree with my opinion without adding their own.

Or possibly you yourself don't like it, therefore you don't want them to like it either. Most likely that person is simply making conversation.

 

[captainballsack]

I think this is more of a thread about common logical fallacies than it is about actual arguments used to defend films/games.

One argument I'm tired of seeing is to argue a game is good based on story. When you're telling me how good The Last of Us is, and you're only telling me plot to sell it, I'm going to think absolutely nothing of what you are telling me.

Plot does not make up for good game design. Plot might make bad game design more bearable, but not better. If the focus of the game IS the story, then tell me how the mechanics accentuate the narrative. Tell me how the narrative is expressed interactively and why the narrative is best communicated through the video game medium. Don't just tell me "this game is good because of this twist", tell me "this game is good because there is a twist in the plot and the whole dynamic of the game changes."

 

[Uhura]

I kinda wish people would make some kind of mental distinction between a) not getting something intellectually and b) not getting something emotionally. If someone doesn't like a specific film their reasons usually have nothing to do with poor intellectual capabilities. The dislike usually stems from the fact that the film just didn't emotionally resonate with the viewer and providing endless amounts of analysis doesn't usually change a thing. So yeah, I think the "you just didn't get it" can be a pretty lazy argument.

 

[bug_of_war]

"You just don't get the message it's trying to get across"

I don't care about the message, the movie itself was shit.

ooooh, I've seen that used too many times when someone tries to defend a terrence malick film. I had to watch tree of life with the insistence of my friend, and oh my, did that movie have an obnoxious amount of pretentiousness. According to my friend I would have like it more if I had understood what the film was trying to tell me.

Yeah...no.

This is especially annoying when the message they're talking about wasn't subtle in the least. Tree of Life's message isn't particularly hard to see, it's very thinly veiled, if at all. Everyone who saw the film understood the message, most of us just didn't care because the movie wasn't very good.

Yeah, see the film I was thinking about was "Killing Them Softly". It was supposed to have an underlying message showing how the economic situation of America effected everyone including criminals or some shit like that. All me and my old man could see was a boring as fuck movie that had far too much dialogue that had literally NOTHING to do with the overarching story.

First and foremost a movie should keep the audiences attention by remaining interesting, and too many "films with messages" forget about that. Then you've got people defending it because, "the message was good".

 

[Burgers2013]

[quote="Phasmal"
`Why do you HATE X?`
Criticism is not hate.
I see it this way, you can love something completely and still not have to love everything about it.[/quote]

I totally agree with this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with finding faults in games/movies/etc. that you enjoyed, even your favorites. It's actually a very important part of thoughtful criticism. I'd add that there's also nothing wrong with finding positive qualities in games or whatever that you otherwise disliked or found lacking. I really enjoyed Nazi Zombies from CoD. It is completely ridiculous and over-the-top, and I still think it is the most interesting thing to come out of the franchise since...maybe...Big Red One (whichever game you start out on the beaches of Normandy).

 

[rumdumconundrum]

"It's a popcorn movie" or "it's just a movie"

That phrase irritates me to no end. The Scary Movie franchise after 2 (and most recently the "Anything Else" Movie franchise) is rife with this argument. I don't care if it's not supposed to be taken seriously. They're BAD movies. They're badly scripted, follow absolutely no plot whatsoever, and they shoehorn in cameos (for no reason other than "Hi Random Pop Culture Guy! Bye Random Pop Culture Guy!") at such a rapid fire pace, that it quickly becomes dull.

What's even worse is that the "cameos" are so badly done, that they have to explain who the heck it is.
Joker, take it away:

As for games, a lot of MMO's peeve me badly. "Oh, well, it's supposed to be grindy. It's an MMO."
THEN. MAKE. IT. INTERESTING. For god's sake, I'm not going to shell out 15 bucks a month to developers to do HOMEWORK and get nothing but a "ding!" sound effect in return. Look at The Secret World. The combat is fun, the plotline is original, and the lore is fantastic (with tons of various bits of mythology for people like me who love those kinds of things), yet the game is failing. Why? Stagnation due to complacent gamers with that attitude.

And finally, most of the Final Fantasy games after 8: "It's just the Japanese culture". NO. NO IT'S NOT. I've studied Japanese culture out of interest for it for years, and I've got a fair grasp on it (more so than most), and I've never seen any records of Japanese people predominantly being obnoxious caricatures of human emotion. "Well, that's just the way animes are". That's not true at all. Some are, I will admit, but those are in the minority. Some of my favorite animes have subdued, believable characters who go through actual character development instead of being defined by a sole character trait. The writers of these games recently are just being LAZY. Oh, and the characters aren't voiced well, either (PICK AN ACCENT, VANILLE!). The Final Fantasy series has sat on its laurels and tried to capitalize on fanboy nostalgia for years. However, that's slowly starting to change, and I'm happy for it. Also, they need to cut down on their cutscenes. If they want to make movies, that's fine, go ahead and do that. But I'm not paying 60 bucks for a video game that will just play itself.

 

[sageoftruth]

My most hated one is anything that attacks my credibility as a speaker. Things like "fanboy" or "mindless sheep". It may have some merit if the so-called fanboy is refusing to listen to any arguments, but instantly whipping out the "fanboy" accusation the moment someone tries to criticize something is definitely a cop out in my book.

 

[sageoftruth]

I kinda wish people would make some kind of mental distinction between a) not getting something intellectually and b) not getting something emotionally. If someone doesn't like a specific film their reasons usually have nothing to do with poor intellectual capabilities. The dislike usually stems from the fact that the film just didn't emotionally resonate with the viewer and providing endless amounts of analysis doesn't usually change a thing. So yeah, I think the "you just didn't get it" can be a pretty lazy argument.

Especially when the statement ends there.

 

[rumdumconundrum]

I kinda wish people would make some kind of mental distinction between a) not getting something intellectually and b) not getting something emotionally. If someone doesn't like a specific film their reasons usually have nothing to do with poor intellectual capabilities. The dislike usually stems from the fact that the film just didn't emotionally resonate with the viewer and providing endless amounts of analysis doesn't usually change a thing. So yeah, I think the "you just didn't get it" can be a pretty lazy argument.

I've actually gotten into long and brutal arguments with people when they say that. I usually reply with, "Okay then. Tell me, oh wise and powerful Sensei. What deep underlying meaning was I not getting, seeing as I am but a lowly intellectual subnormal that is incapable of understanding deeper meanings and coherent thought?" I mean, it's just an offensive statement in general.

 

[sageoftruth]

There's the argument where one states something along the lines of "It's fiction" to justify plot holes. It's okay to break the laws of reality. In fiction, a gunslinger can hit a target while running at full speed no problem, but breaking the laws set by the movie/game itself is pushing it, unless it's one of those crazy ones that openly tries to do it for the sake of being funny/crazy/awesome.

 

[superpandasauras]

I'm surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet. It's the classic "Let's see you do better" argument. You don't need to be a five star chef in order to say food tastes like shit, and you don't need to be a game designer in order to call a game out on it's flaws. Another bad one is "It was good for it's time". I hate this argument because, well, odds are, until time travel is invented, we aren't in it's time. Just because it's gameplay was wonderful for it's time, doesn't mean it holds up today. Looking at you, Goldeneye.

 

[Zhukov]

Tree of Life's message isn't particularly hard to see, it's very thinly veiled, if at all. Everyone who saw the film understood the message, most of us just didn't care because the movie wasn't very good.

I saw Tree of Life and I most certainly did not understand its message.

Care to enlighten me?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Tree of Life's message isn't particularly hard to see, it's very thinly veiled, if at all. Everyone who saw the film understood the message, most of us just didn't care because the movie wasn't very good.

I saw Tree of Life and I most certainly did not understand its message.

Care to enlighten me?

What I got out of it is that no matter what you do, whether you're successful or not, you're going to die, everyone you know and love is going to die, and the world will eventually end. So don't be a dick to people, that takes too much energy and frustration.

Not exactly the most complex or high minded of messages. I think people overlook it because they're trying too hard to find something deep and meaningful in this movie just because it's weird, but truth be told, I really don't think there's anything too deep or meaningful there.

 

[The Wykydtron]

"It had a twist ending so it's good" or "it makes sense once you think about it"

Yes, i'm talking about Bioshock Infinite. Yes, the ending is incoherent. Yes, the entire game is at odds with itself on several levels and yes it totally deserves Gaem of da Yayer so hype \o/ lol

I have to go back to what that one guy said about not getting something emotionally rather than intellectually since that is the whole reason I keep getting into back and forths with Last of Us fanboys. Yeah I get that the entire universe is *supposed* to be a total clusterfuck of shitty moral values, Joel is *supposed* to be a selfish shitlord and Ellie... well not much bad I can say about her apart from i'm getting really sick of Ellen Page's face.

You can go on about themes and "that's the point lol" all you want and while I do understand from a story level, I will never get around to its preferred way of thinking because i'm far too positive a person to accept a universe that is so consistently morally bankrupt.

As you probably can guess, I was firmly in the "what the fuck is this?" camp concerning the ending.

Spoiler

It seems I have a real hatred of important characters in games doing really selfish stuff concerning death, I have three solid examples as of last night and I don't really know why. Other than that, I think it's rather obvious that essentially dooming the entire human race because you have daughter issues is ridiculously unacceptable but yes, it fits the theme of the game so hands tied >.>

 

[Ironbat92]

Am I the only one who is sick and tired of "you suck at the game" when a game is criticized for bad level design. I'm sorry, if I'm having too much trouble getting past a certain area, it's not that it's challenging, it's just bad level design. Stop thinking you're so awesome just because you finished Dark Souls without dying. Oh, and can we also stop with "You were payed off by activision" because they make Call of Duty? If Activision makes Billions of Dollars off of Call of Duty, why would they care what people on the internet think about it.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

One that really rustles my jimmies (jimmy.jpg) is "well if it's so bad then you make a movie/game and see how you go." This argument is a multi-fallacy approach. For a start, it doesn't even begin to address any criticisms levelled at it. Secondly, I am in no position to make a game or movie even if I could do better. Thirdly, I do not need to do anything to prove that my opinion is valid apart from make reaonsable observations. I am comparing the movie to other movies that I have experienced. I don't need to know how to make one.

Also, while it is to a smaller degree and comes up less often, I don't like it when people suggest I'm not allowed to want a satisfying climax or more action when the media opts to make a point instead (a la ME3 and the final Hunger Games).

 

[The Feast]

Can't give a statement example but I'm frustrated with the people who still defend company like Gearbox Software that give two terrible game which are Duke Nukem Forever and Alien Colonial Marines.

Saying that their game is still fun and enjoyable. Terrible game mechanics with loads of bug that demands a full price, and they still taking trash at you for hating these two games, saying Borderlands 2 as a prime example of their good game, and such.

 

[Johnny Impact]

`Why do you HATE X?`
Criticism is not hate.
I see it this way, you can love something completely and still not have to love everything about it.

Bingo.

Case in point: I love, love, LOVE the Avengers movie. At the same time, I can recognize it is a formulaic, bombastic piece of thoughtless popcorn fluff that offers zero surprises (no, Thanos pulling Loki's strings isn't a surprise). Considering thoughtless popcorn fluff was exactly what they were trying to make, I consider it a rousing success and a worthy addition to my shelf. Well-made fluff is still well-made.

Makes me wonder what the people who DO hate it would have done differently. That's not a "you never made a movie so what do you know about anything" argument. I would seriously like to know how their version of the story goes.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I kinda wish people would make some kind of mental distinction between a) not getting something intellectually and b) not getting something emotionally. If someone doesn't like a specific film their reasons usually have nothing to do with poor intellectual capabilities. The dislike usually stems from the fact that the film just didn't emotionally resonate with the viewer and providing endless amounts of analysis doesn't usually change a thing. So yeah, I think the "you just didn't get it" can be a pretty lazy argument.

I think it'd be useful if people said "I didn't really connect or feel anything for these characters/because of the story" instead of "I just didn't get X". That'd go a long way towards clearing up the confusion you're talking about. I try to make that distinction whenever I mention my dislike for certain aspects of whatever media I'm referring to. It's rare where I don't "get it" intellectually when it comes to movies and such (things can be a bit more confusing if there are some cultural conventions I'm not familiar with, for example) so I don't like it when people assume I "just don't understand" some item.