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BlueHighwind

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Jan 24, 2010
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I think that we could probably just remove the term "RPG" because it doesn't mean anything, instead we can redefine the games that were within that list based upon the actions of the characters within them (i.e. the main combat system). Merely being a game in which customizable stats are included does not make a game an RPG anymore, because too many games now have kinds of stats.

1. Row Game: Absolutely no control of movement in combat - which generally exists outside of the outer exploration system and world like its another dimension or something. The placement of the characters is completely or almost completely meaningless to the actions of the games. You could be placed in rows, or something else equally arbitrary. Combat is turn-based or semiturn-based. (Ex. every main Final Fantasy game except for the MMOs and XII, about a billion others).

2. Action-Adventure: Complete free-roaming combat with direct control of the playable characters. Usually no difference between out-of-combat gameplay and in-combat gameplay. (Ex. Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, God of War, FFXII)

3. Turn-Based Tactics/Strategy: Combat exists on a field with turn-based tactical control of all or most playable characters. Real gameplay beyond menus and cutscenes is limited only to the battlefield itself. (Ex. Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Fire Emblem)

4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.

I haven't played that many other games that people call "RPGs", so honestly I can't think of anything that would be outside these categories. Any further suggestions?
 

TetsuoKaneda

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Feb 11, 2009
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BlueHighwind said:
I think that we could probably just remove the term "RPG" because it doesn't mean anything, instead we can redefine the games that were within that list based upon the actions of the characters within them (i.e. the main combat system). Merely being a game in which customizable stats are included does not make a game an RPG anymore, because too many games now have kinds of stats.

1. Row Game: Absolutely no control of movement in combat - which generally exists outside of the main combat system like its another dimension or something. The placement of the characters is completely or almost completely meaningless to the actions of the games. You could be placed in rows, or something else equally arbitrary. Combat is turn-based or semiturn-based. (Ex. every main Final Fantasy game except for the MMOs and XII, about a billion others).

2. Action-Adventure: Complete free-roaming combat with direct control of the playable characters. Usually no difference between out-of-combat gameplay and in-combat gameplay. (Ex. Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, God of War, FFXII)

3. Turn-Based Tactics/Strategy: Combat exists on a field with turn-based tactical control of all or most playable characters. Real gameplay beyond menus and cutscenes is limited only to the battlefield itself. (Ex. Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Fire Emblem)

I haven't played that many other games that people call "RPGs", so honestly I can't think of anything that would be outside these three categories. Any further suggestions?
TTS (Tabletop Sim): Fairly open world with the ability to do what one wants, but with an overarching story and all that means: Beginning, Middle, and End still have to happen, but anything in between those points is up to you.
 

Tharwen

Ep. VI: Return of the turret
May 7, 2009
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Personally, when I hear 'RPG', I think of Fable and Dragon Age. I think 'RPG' should be limited to that typical western levelling up/customising gear/fantasy world sort of game.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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SuperChurl said:
Cool. But then couldn't all games with storylines be considered RPGs?
Not really, besides my idea is that an RPG is an RPG if it allows you to choose how you want to finish the story. Conquer the Galaxy or save it, like in Knights of the Old Republic.
 

TetsuoKaneda

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Feb 11, 2009
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BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
I'd suggest you try playing some of the great '90s-era PC RPGs, but for modern day examples of this, I'd suggest The Witcher (every quest you complete and everything you do has a consequence, some smaller than others, also a pretty cool battle gimmick) and the pretty decent GeneForge series. I don't know of any good console RPGs, as I try to stick to PC gaming (easier for me to get a monitor than a TV) and particularly roleplaying on a PC, where it's a little "bigger" of a thing.

Anything I missed? Misrepresented? Feel free to back me up/tear me down.
 

TitsMcGee1804

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Dec 24, 2008
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whats the big deal? why are people getting so worked up about it? does it matter what genre a game fits into? if you have fun playing it i dont care if its empire: total war or chuffing sims 2

if you ask me, an rpg is any game that involves building a distinct character the way you want the character to work (i.e. choice), and you people seem to have trouble with the term 'hybrid', bioshock is an fps rpg hybrid, why take it further than that? it might not do rpg as well as baldurs gate but who cares? its fun thats all that matters...
 

TitsMcGee1804

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Dec 24, 2008
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to the guy who said diablo was not an rpg...stfu...

just because you cant customize every part of your god damn face doesnt mean you cant get immersed in a character...
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
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I think the running theme that distinguishes RPGs from other gaming genres--whether table top or computer--is the ability to empower your character with abilities and gear as you like, such that different players can develop their character in different ways and still overcome the challenges the game delivers. Poor development of your character leads to a long and painful game, whereas wise development leads to easy pwnage, massive destruction, and pure domination over your fantasy realm.

Story telling and strategy aren't really specific to RPGs. It is important to strategize your abilities and gear in an RPG, but all games will hopefully have strategy and story telling to some degree.

If there is no sigificant material choice in how you develop and outfit your character, like FFXIII, I think it is fair to call into question whether it is actually an RPG. No doubt there is a lot of story there, silly as it may be.

Freedom to explore and tackle the gaming world when and how you see fit is another important element, without which the RPG distinction comes into question. As high costs of cutscenes and voice acting herd players down more narrow and focused pathways, this becomes a worsening problem for RPGs in particular.

Interactivity with the NPCs, I can see that as a common theme of the genre, but not essential. Without a human dungeon master or game master, having to rely on computer algorithms gets a little wierd. It's nice when it's done well, adding flavor to the game world, but not an essential pillar to the gameplay.
 

theamazingbean

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Dec 29, 2009
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BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
They will exist as soon as we invent a robot dungeon masters. From what I've seen, 4th edition is attempting to make this easier.
 

theamazingbean

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Dec 29, 2009
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I agree with the author, but trying to express complex ideas in short phrases is usually doomed to failure. Just keep the term RPG with all it's haphazard association and slap anybody who complains about jrpgs.
 

SpaceCop

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Feb 14, 2010
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008Zulu said:
Not really, besides my idea is that an RPG is an RPG if it allows you to choose how you want to finish the story. Conquer the Galaxy or save it, like in Knights of the Old Republic.
Ah, I'm sorry. I thought you were suggesting that Diablo could be considered a full-on RGP if we imagined it had a backstory with player decisions involved.

But yeah; I'd agree with you that choice is an important aspect of the genre.
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
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Last quick thought: There is a contradiction between a game telling a story and a game letting you freely interact with the gaming world.
 

Toeys

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Mar 30, 2010
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TitsMcGee1804 said:
whats the big deal? why are people getting so worked up about it? does it matter what genre a game fits into? if you have fun playing it i dont care if its empire: total war or chuffing sims 2
We're gamers, ofcourse it matters :). Besides, i don't like buying games promising to be something that in my opinion they're not. I think it would be great if we could have better labling on games. FPS games are FPS games. RPGs are Bioware games, or Square Enix games, or....
 

BlueHighwind

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Jan 24, 2010
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TetsuoKaneda said:
BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
I'd suggest you try playing some of the great '90s-era PC RPGs, but for modern day examples of this, I'd suggest The Witcher (every quest you complete and everything you do has a consequence, some smaller than others, also a pretty cool battle gimmick) and the pretty decent GeneForge series. I don't know of any good console RPGs, as I try to stick to PC gaming (easier for me to get a monitor than a TV) and particularly roleplaying on a PC, where it's a little "bigger" of a thing.

Anything I missed? Misrepresented? Feel free to back me up/tear me down.
Of course, I'd rather never play another video game again than deal with the manmade Hell of PC gaming.
 

Grey_Focks

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Jan 12, 2010
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BlueHighwind said:
Of course, I'd rather never play another video game again than deal with the manmade Hell of PC gaming.
This site has a very high number of PC fanboys. I suggest equipping your Flame Resistant Shield +1.

What makes an RPG- choice. And NO, I do not mean if your choice affects the story, though that counts, too. I mean if you can decide how your character evolves throughout the course of the game (whether by skill points, new weapons and armor, making story-based decisions) then it is an RPG.

To this regard, EVERY game like Diablo, every Final fantasy (though I haven't played 13, so I dunno about that one), every game made by Blizzard, BioWare, Black Isle, Obsidian, etc, etc. They can ALL be called RPGs.

There. I think that's as good a definition as we're going to get. Disagree if you want, but that will forever be MY definition of an RPG.

EDIT- I just realised that also makes games like Devil May Cry RPGs. I accept that. In a way, they kinda are. You "level up" by getting orbs throughout the game, your constantly changing weapons, and your deciding what skills you level up with your orbs. I'm still satisfied with my definition of an RPG.
 

TetsuoKaneda

Regular Member
Feb 11, 2009
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TitsMcGee1804 said:
to the guy who said diablo was not an rpg...stfu...

just because you cant customize every part of your god damn face doesnt mean you cant get immersed in a character...
Better read the post again, there, sonny Jim. That wasn't even a point that was brought up.

BlueHighwind said:
TetsuoKaneda said:
BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
I'd suggest you try playing some of the great '90s-era PC RPGs, but for modern day examples of this, I'd suggest The Witcher (every quest you complete and everything you do has a consequence, some smaller than others, also a pretty cool battle gimmick) and the pretty decent GeneForge series. I don't know of any good console RPGs, as I try to stick to PC gaming (easier for me to get a monitor than a TV) and particularly roleplaying on a PC, where it's a little "bigger" of a thing.

Anything I missed? Misrepresented? Feel free to back me up/tear me down.
Of course, I'd rather never play another video game again than deal with the manmade Hell of PC gaming.
Well, you know the old quote. Better to reign and luxuriate in Hell (even a man-made one) than suffer and serve in heaven, lol.

Now I'm a little curious...why do you say man-made Hell? DRM? Sysreqs? Just can't be arsed, also you have a TV readily available to you? All three?
 

BlueHighwind

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Jan 24, 2010
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TetsuoKaneda said:
TitsMcGee1804 said:
to the guy who said diablo was not an rpg...stfu...

just because you cant customize every part of your god damn face doesnt mean you cant get immersed in a character...
Better read the post again, there, sonny Jim. That wasn't even a point that was brought up.

BlueHighwind said:
TetsuoKaneda said:
BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
I'd suggest you try playing some of the great '90s-era PC RPGs, but for modern day examples of this, I'd suggest The Witcher (every quest you complete and everything you do has a consequence, some smaller than others, also a pretty cool battle gimmick) and the pretty decent GeneForge series. I don't know of any good console RPGs, as I try to stick to PC gaming (easier for me to get a monitor than a TV) and particularly roleplaying on a PC, where it's a little "bigger" of a thing.

Anything I missed? Misrepresented? Feel free to back me up/tear me down.
Of course, I'd rather never play another video game again than deal with the manmade Hell of PC gaming.
Well, you know the old quote. Better to reign and luxuriate in Hell (even a man-made one) than suffer and serve in heaven, lol.

Now I'm a little curious...why do you say man-made Hell? DRM? Sysreqs? Just can't be arsed, also you have a TV readily available to you? All three?
Mostly the fact that I don't like the endless digital protection codes you have to go through in order to play the game. When I buy a game, I should OWN the game, not have to find some kind of one-use-only code to get through and install it. Plus, I really can't be bothered to put in all the effort that is required to play a game on the PC. I could get Civilization 5, and download half-a-billion things... or I could get Super Mario Galaxy, which takes five minutes from the moment I put it into my Wii until I'm jumping on Gombas.

Plus, there are no PC games that are anything near the type of games I play. I like bright, colorful games without buckets of blood or moral ambiguity (though GTA is a guilty pleasure).
 

TetsuoKaneda

Regular Member
Feb 11, 2009
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BlueHighwind said:
TetsuoKaneda said:
TitsMcGee1804 said:
to the guy who said diablo was not an rpg...stfu...

just because you cant customize every part of your god damn face doesnt mean you cant get immersed in a character...
Better read the post again, there, sonny Jim. That wasn't even a point that was brought up.

BlueHighwind said:
TetsuoKaneda said:
BlueHighwind said:
4. "True" RPG: A game where the main point is literally to play a "role". You ARE the character, and the end-results of the storyline is entirely your choice. It isn't just a combat game with a storyline tacked-on, the game IS the storyline. Of course, as far as I know, no such game exists, so this category is pointless.
I'd suggest you try playing some of the great '90s-era PC RPGs, but for modern day examples of this, I'd suggest The Witcher (every quest you complete and everything you do has a consequence, some smaller than others, also a pretty cool battle gimmick) and the pretty decent GeneForge series. I don't know of any good console RPGs, as I try to stick to PC gaming (easier for me to get a monitor than a TV) and particularly roleplaying on a PC, where it's a little "bigger" of a thing.

Anything I missed? Misrepresented? Feel free to back me up/tear me down.
Of course, I'd rather never play another video game again than deal with the manmade Hell of PC gaming.
Well, you know the old quote. Better to reign and luxuriate in Hell (even a man-made one) than suffer and serve in heaven, lol.

Now I'm a little curious...why do you say man-made Hell? DRM? Sysreqs? Just can't be arsed, also you have a TV readily available to you? All three?
Mostly the fact that I don't like the endless digital protection codes you have to go through in order to play the game. When I buy a game, I should OWN the game, not have to find some kind of one-use-only code to get through and install it. Plus, I really can't be bothered to put in all the effort that is required to play a game on the PC. I could get Civilization 5, and download half-a-billion things... or I could get Super Mario Galaxy, which takes five minutes from the moment I put it into my Wii until I'm jumping on Gombas.

Plus, there are no PC games that are anything near the type of games I play. I like bright, colorful games without buckets of blood or moral ambiguity (though GTA is a guilty pleasure).
I think you're playing in to a few too many horror stories there...think of it more as an ongoing siege: Some games have ridiculously bad DRM, others have only a CD check and then you own it for good. Gained ground and lost ground. I can understand being cowed by the thought of having to google-search each game you want to buy, though. I just can't stand getting motion-sick when I play FPSes (it happens a lot on consoles to me), and I like using a mouse to play strategy games and Sims. To each their own, though. I like PC, you like consoles, and here we are, two rational people having a conversation. Nothing wrong with any of this.

Tell me, have you ever played Elder Scrolls III or IV? It's a little tightly-railed, but that's more the direction I'm driving towards with my "true" RPG argument: Big open world, lots of choice (even if NONE of it has consequences), and eventually you have to complete the main story, but it's only ever "eventually".

Still not as great as the classics, but closer, and it's on consoles.
 

LordWalter

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Sep 19, 2009
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Doesn't really bug me. Even "RPGs" that are fundamentally different still have a certain "stats" based combat going on, even if the details vary. I think that's the main hallmark of an RPG.

Also, this is going into my "Awesome Quotes of Gratuitous Awesomeness" open office file:

"The English language is open source, but submitting your changes is problematic."