Artificial intelligence-why?

[General Twinkletoes]

The same reason we just landed a big ass rover on Mars.
Because progress is cool.
Also the thousands of applications that more advanced computers have.

 

[Lukirre]

Yes. I absolutely hope that we will have sentient artificial beings. I also believe that, even if similar to us intellectually, they will be far superior to us in the same way that we are superior to other animals on this planet.

People watch too many movies or read too many bad science fiction novels and somehow come to the conclusion that evolution means survival of the fittest and the destruction of everything else. Logically, there is no value in destroying a planet and its inhabitants with a full-scale war. The only reason an AI would come to the conclusion that, yes, this is absolutely what must happen, is because it was either programmed in or the AI has been subjected to horrible treatment/brainwashing while it was developing.

And I know what people are thinking. "Humans have been horrible to other species on this planet! We abuse/murder them constantly!"

And that's true. Humans have been horrible to other species and its own, but as humans have become more intelligent, the need for violence and intentional suffering has faded. It's not like they're going to need to herd us like livestock for food.

I look at AI's as being nothing other than very advanced human beings. Far more intelligent and less dependent on violence and war.

There's also the question of whether or not human beings themselves could be upgraded as a sort of cyborg to the state of AI's/androids. Although I don't think that humans would treat that power very well, unless of course it also upgraded their intelligence to the point where they saw the uselessness of corruption and violence.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

I need someone to love me and people won't, thus we need AI's.

purely for my benefit.

 

[Lukirre]

Your human arrogance disgusts me. Can you fly? Do you have sonar? Can you regenerate lost limbs? Are you coated in a crunchy exoskeleton to protect your squishy insides? No? You have a big brain and opposable thumbs, and that's it?

*squishes the human*

You're definitely right, and I didn't mean to say that there aren't other impressive species on this planet. But as a whole I think that humanity has proven itself more capable in its ability to provide creations to make up for its lack of interesting features.

Maybe I just hope that we develop AI's because I fear the day insects gain sentience. I mean, I've seen Starship Troopers, man. I have seen some shit.

 

[chadachada123]

An AI, if created by science, would be objective and unbiased. It could coordinate resources from a wide range of sources and determine the best allocation while leaving politics out of it.

Give it some input, and it'll spit out the best option for maximizing whatever it is you're looking to maximize.

It could, for example, figure out the cheapest way to end world hunger (and could even do so with constraints like 'don't directly kill any humans in the process'). This is something that humanity has a hard time with because we are greedy, power-hungry fucks. Give the power to a machine, though, and it will give the best option for ALL of humanity and not just individual humans.

 

[II2]

Good video, semi related. Automated "algo trading" or "black box trading" on Wallstreet and Hong Kong. Scary and interesting.

 

[Palfreyfish]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

 

[DoPo]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

Hmm, I'm not going to outright say "No", but I'll go for "very unlikely". As I said, I have to look into it more, to answer properly, but the large portions of the Internet are certainly not predisposed to "awakening" to intelligence. They are even less capable than cockroaches or whatever-else-low-life-form-have-you's brain, which also does roughly what the human one does. The information is there, but never regarded as a whole cohesive body. It gets a great leap of logic to get from an FTP server with techno MP3s and a Wikipedia article on Mozart to the concept of "music", as a very simple example. There needs to be something working on top of that information, so it can "understand" it. But even then, it's a lot of things to understand. You're looking at an approximate shitload of bytes, all of it completely random to whatever observer. One sequence of bytes is a song, another - a video, a third - just some letters, fourth - might not have any meaning. And there is no inherent way to "guess" which is which. You can see how it's easier for something else to use the Internet - the information is there, but it only needs to operate inside to get to it.

However that's not all of the Internet - it's a large place after all. It might be possible that portions of it are capable of becoming self-aware. But that's pure speculation on my part - I'm saying that it's possible the conditions are there but I have no idea if they are. It could be something like cloud computing - you have a portion of the Internet, sure, but you can have some meta-operations on top of it easily. Over time, the meta-operation gradually starts to see itself as a whole (or close enough) and gains "understanding" of some sort about "everything else". Thus self-awareness. Although, I find it also unlikely to be an accident - it could be that some AI people set it up and were waiting for results.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Why? Because we're people. It's instinctive for us to push boundaries and mass with shit. If people had never done anything unless they could clearly see a logical payoff to doing it we'd have barely discovered anything at all. We are programmed to experiment and take risks. Some experiments can go wrong and have horrific unseen consequences, but it's all part of the big evolutionary game of snakes and ladders, and trying to get us not to play is like trying to get a sparrow not to fly.

 

[Wado Rhyu]

couple of things are wrong with your post.

for off: your definition of a A.I. we dont know what it is.

but to continu with your definition. it could do those things if we let him but the systeems you are talking about are better of with a deticated control systeem.

so what can we use it for? we could let it think. now this doesnt sound so special but we will have something that can think and live forever. so it can advance our understanding of everything threw sience. we could have a systeem that can teach us new things.

also it would be cool.


srry for bad grammar

 

[Palfreyfish]

That's what I was getting at. What are your thoughts on the internet one day perhaps becoming sentient?

The Internet itself - no, I don't see it happening at least not soon or easy. However, being used as vehicle, or cradle, if you will, for sentience - yes, that is more of a possibility. I did mention agents before, they could very well crawl the net and pull enough information together to create something that thinks.

Well, I haven't actually looked into it enough, but that's just the general feeling I have - the Internet itself is largely...well, unconnected in the ways that would predispose it to self awareness. There is information exchanged but very predictable and boring. Something operating from inside there has a better shot.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Although at the same time, the internet is not dissimilar to a brain, in that it's lots of interconnected nodes which store information, but as it is there's nothing that connects it in the way you mentioned. Is something like that even possible?

Hmm, I'm not going to outright say "No", but I'll go for "very unlikely". As I said, I have to look into it more, to answer properly, but the large portions of the Internet are certainly not predisposed to "awakening" to intelligence. They are even less capable than cockroaches or whatever-else-low-life-form-have-you's brain, which also does roughly what the human one does. The information is there, but never regarded as a whole cohesive body. It gets a great leap of logic to get from an FTP server with techno MP3s and a Wikipedia article on Mozart to the concept of "music", as a very simple example. There needs to be something working on top of that information, so it can "understand" it. But even then, it's a lot of things to understand. You're looking at an approximate shitload of bytes, all of it completely random to whatever observer. One sequence of bytes is a song, another - a video, a third - just some letters, fourth - might not have any meaning. And there is no inherent way to "guess" which is which. You can see how it's easier for something else to use the Internet - the information is there, but it only needs to operate inside to get to it.

However that's not all of the Internet - it's a large place after all. It might be possible that portions of it are capable of becoming self-aware. But that's pure speculation on my part - I'm saying that it's possible the conditions are there but I have no idea if they are. It could be something like cloud computing - you have a portion of the Internet, sure, but you can have some meta-operations on top of it easily. Over time, the meta-operation gradually starts to see itself as a whole (or close enough) and gains "understanding" of some sort about "everything else". Thus self-awareness. Although, I find it also unlikely to be an accident - it could be that some AI people set it up and were waiting for results.

Aside from a thank you for such a fantastic reply, I don't really have much to respond with, as you countered your own points in the second paragraph.

 

[FantomOmega]

If it follows Ghost in the Shell in how we handle technology then I'm ALL for it

But if some Idiot decides to copy Judgement Day well Fuck THAT!!

We have probably thought up all possible scenarios in movies and video games on a robot apocalypse to NOT be able to prevent it OR fight the robots before they could get a decent foothold to overrun us

We as a species (humans) cant even get along with each other well because of differences (skin color, religion, culture, even your own opinions) so I would hate to see how we would react to the cold shiny automaton with the capability to crush every bone in your body like wet cardboard and IF they somehow made themselves to look so human-like that we cant tell the difference we will stall hate them for outperforming us in everything and taking our jobs (heck! they already doing that and they're not even sentient yet!)

 

[FantomOmega]

we will stall hate them for outperforming us in everything and taking our jobs (heck! they already doing that and they're not even sentient yet!)

Ho ho would you kook at that!

 

[renegade7]

By the way, in response to some of the more...opinionated?...quotes I've received, I'm not saying AI is in itself a bad thing (I actually think it's a good thing), I'm just pointing out that from some points of view it may not be entirely realistic.

 

[renegade7]

And a few other points:

Higher level jobs (creative work, legal work, analysis, etc.) may be lost to AIs, potentially leaving a lot of people without work. This could create a whole new unemployment problem, this time among even well trained and experienced professionals.

Do you really have the right to just shut down (ie KILL) an AI that isn't doing what you want?

If it's an AI that is only built to do one thing and not ask questions, why not just have a non-sentient computer? I suppose the programmer wouldn't put a will to live in such a machine.

But if it's an AI created to be like a human being, and have a range of emotions similar to that of a human, it will probably want to continue living.

 

[tautologico]

It's a very interesting topic, one I don't have time to contribute to much at this moment. Most people here seem to have very limited ideas about what a sentient program or robot would be, however. The whole "we program it so it will only do as programmed" is patently false even for "simple" artificial intelligence programs we do today. For example, a neural network learns how to classify objects, but we don't exactly know how it classifies, and the network itself can't express how it does it. This is similar to our brains, actually; we can do lots of stuff (semi-)automatically (like read this text), but we can't articulate how our brains do it. Can you explain exactly what your brain is doing to decode these words and sentences?

Anyway, I recommend some reading for people really interested in the subject. There are tons of good books about conscience, the philosophy of "strong AI", sentience, free will, artificial intelligence techniques, machine learning, etc. One mind-blowing example for starters is "Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter, which seems to be about a lot of things in the beginning but it's really about consciousness and the possibility of a "strong AI".

 

[tautologico]

Would cost a whole lot of money.

They would cost a lot of research money to achieve, but once achieve it could (possibly) be far cheaper to reproduce. This is speculation, but your claim that true AI machines would cost a lot has no basis in reality either.

So even though AIs COULD exist, do you think they actually will?

Even if the benefit of a truly intelligent, sentient machine is not enough to justify its costs, at least some will be built on the way to understand our own brain and our own consciousness. Learning how to create a truly intelligent being would make us learn a lot about our own intelligence, even if it wouldn't mean we would know everything about intelligence and consciousness. This has already happened to some degree, there is an interplay between neuroscience, cognitive science and artificial intelligence research that goes way back.

I think most people would agree that understanding more about our intelligence and brains has huge potential benefits. Some risks too, of course, but it's the same with every technology. In the long run, the research costs would be offset by the possibility of curing Alzheimer, other degenerative diseases, and even developing drugs that would make us smarter, healthier, and live longer.