As I recall the Supreme Court is supposed to make a decision soon.

[Novijen]

I like the math part, but your actual logic is just sooo flawed.

There are fines on Cigars and liquor when sold to minors, BUT WAIT! Walmart sells both.

So does this mean that not for sale to minors =! won't sell it? In fact yes.

It's already against company policy to sell M rated games to kids, this new law would change nothing. All it would do is make it so companies would be LEGALLY forced to attempt to verify age. Since they already do it isn't a big deal.

This reminds me of chicken little, running around talking about how the sky is falling.

Two things.

1) Video games are not cigars and alcohol. To equate a medium of visual stimulation(Movies, books, and TV are akin) to consummations products is not only flawed, but degrades video games to that below cigars and alcohol.

2) Do you see Adult/Porn/NC-17 items in places like Walmart, Target, Costco, etc? No, those stores do not sell Adult material. Video games would be Porn/NC-17 items.

Videogames already are 17+ items for M rated games.

I think the basic debate we have here is that you think this will change things, while I see no logical reason for why it would. Maybe you could give a source or some solid reason for why you think it would matter? Not trying to sound pretentious, and there is no reason you need to win me over. It just sounds pretty crazy/childish to compare videogames to porn but not alcohol.

Personally I think it will be more like R rates movies, which again are sold in Walmart.

That is what we gamers treat them as, but unfortunately, the majority of none gamers see every game as "kids stuff". It's like how animation is treated.

Honestly, I can see us losing the case. It'll be rough for the next couple years after the verdict, and it would probably kill the fps genre outright.

Let's pray that the old guys in robes are able to see it as the same as movies and books.

 

[Tiger Sora]

Well lucky me I'm in Canada. And thought American law may have influence in my countries law making. Something like this would get shot down like when they tried to put in caps on our internet. Well this was Ontario but yeh still.

It's kinda like. I'm gona bring this up. A lady was going door to door in whatever town. With a petition to get street hockey banned in their neighborhood. (this is from a comedian btw). To which the comedian replied to her "Lady have you looked at a map of where you live. Your in Canada".

Kinda the same situation here that California wants to ban violent video game sales for children. I mean for gods sake the politicians wanting this grew up playing the game every child has played WAR. Your national anthem is violent. Americas involved in like 10 wars. Face it Americas violent and your kids are gona be exposed to it. So don't take it away, they're just gona want it all the more than. Instead educate them on this. Have them understand it and it's implications. Don't go shouting its for the sake of the children, thats Helen's job from the Simpsons.

I'm gona stop going on about this now. I need a drink.

 

[MajWound]

Let's have a math class regarding this. Games are $63 (including tax) here in the US. One fine is $1,000. Now, what is the cut retailers get from that $63? About 10/15%? Retailers get over $7 from that one game.

1,000/7 = 142.86 games. A retailer has to sell 142.86 NEW games to cut into that fine they received. Now, statistics say that there is a, roughly, 15% chance for a minor to buy a M game. That means 3 out of 20 tweens. If that is monthly, maybe the fine will not be all that much, but if that's daily, then the retailer's literally screwed.

It's all math people. Continual fines are a risk to retailers, and places like Wal-Mart, Costco, Target, and big chains don't want that risk. Gamestop and other purely game stores may take it, but the big chains won't.

At our Gamestop on campus, which has over 50,000 students, they would make that money back in the half hour after Modern Warfare 3 drops. And I'm sure a good portion of that fine comes out of the employee's asshole (read: paycheck).

I have no problem with keeping mature games away from kids. If I think the game is safe enough for my kid to play, I'll buy it myself and rent it to the little bastard. But I don't want my kid sneaking a copy of "Blood Fuck: Orgasm 5" into the house without my consent. You know, for the same reason that I wouldn't let him watch Saw, but would be fine with something like District 9.

As for the fines, I'm sure their company policies will be more than sufficient to keep employees from fucking up out of the risk of losing their job and their last 3 paychecks. And if the government can make money off of this, even better. Christ knows we need it.

 

[Novijen]

Let's have a math class regarding this. Games are $63 (including tax) here in the US. One fine is $1,000. Now, what is the cut retailers get from that $63? About 10/15%? Retailers get over $7 from that one game.

1,000/7 = 142.86 games. A retailer has to sell 142.86 NEW games to cut into that fine they received. Now, statistics say that there is a, roughly, 15% chance for a minor to buy a M game. That means 3 out of 20 tweens. If that is monthly, maybe the fine will not be all that much, but if that's daily, then the retailer's literally screwed.

It's all math people. Continual fines are a risk to retailers, and places like Wal-Mart, Costco, Target, and big chains don't want that risk. Gamestop and other purely game stores may take it, but the big chains won't.

At our Gamestop on campus, which has over 50,000 students, they would make that money back in the half hour after Modern Warfare 3 drops. And I'm sure a good portion of that fine comes out of the employee's asshole (read: paycheck).

I have no problem with keeping mature games away from kids. If I think the game is safe enough for my kid to play, I'll buy it myself and rent it to the little bastard. But I don't want my kid sneaking a copy of "Blood Fuck: Orgasm 5" into the house without my consent. You know, for the same reason that I wouldn't let him watch Saw, but would be fine with something like District 9.

As for the fines, I'm sure their company policies will be more than sufficient to keep employees from fucking up out of the risk of losing their job and their last 3 paychecks. And if the government can make money off of this, even better. Christ knows we need it.

It'd be easier just to raise taxes.

If the was a law that had that high a fine, M rated games would be very hard to find. The big chains would be loathe to risk losing that much, unless the fine was directed to the cashier, not the store.

 

[The Code]

I think we're looking at this in too much of a negative light. Let's take into account the fact that people have been bitching left and right about retailers selling games to kids 'too young' to view such materials. If this passes, games of such violence will be held back from anyone not 18 years or older. This could (hopefully) cut back on several problems in the future, such as listening to racist 13 year old brats talking smack over multiplayer, "the effect of violent video games on children", and other such issues. It will also require parents to actually come into the store to see the desired material so they know what their kid is trying to get, and it could potentially force a decline in violent video games, making games with nothing but gore very few and far between (I'm looking at you, Splatterhouse).I will admit, however, that a violent game can be rather cathartic at times, especially after a very bad day and you feel as if you could tear the next asshole you meet in two with your bare hands.

That being said, I'm just as intrigued by the coming result as the rest of the country.

 

[MajWound]

It'd be easier just to raise taxes.

If the was a law that had that high a fine, M rated games would be very hard to find. The big chains would be loathe to risk losing that much, unless the fine was directed to the cashier, not the store.

If I had a business and it became risky to sell what is conservatively 1/2 of my product, I would just be a hell of a lot more careful. Game stores rely too heavily on selling M games to truncate their sales. Anyway, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to check for IDs at the counter. I haven't run into a store in my city that doesn't already. As for bigger stores like Wal-Mart or Target, they don't necessarily need that revenue but I doubt they would stop stocking M games either. They sell smokes, bullets, and sometimes booze, for which they are fined if they're sold to minors. For retailers I don't think it would be that big of a deal to be harder on their employees. Also, in my hypothetical game store, I would absolutely take the fine out of the cashier. I would make damn sure they all sign policy waivers that let me do exactly that. It's the same waiver that lets you bleed the shelf-stocker's salary for knocking over a pile of mayonnaise jars.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I'm sorry, but I'm missing what this is actually doing...

So M-rated games can't be sold to minors without parental approval? What is this changing?

 

[Cavan]

The number of people who misunderstand, and talk about the unsubstantiated fear, is worrying..

Let me put it in example form:
-Seller A makes money from selling games.
-A large proportion of their profits come from selling violent games due to the nature of what is popular.
-They might possibly lose $1000 for every time they are caught selling games to minors even though they are quite rigid in their own rules about selling to minors.
-They lose far more money by not selling those games because any staff members who do not understand the basic rules do not keep their jobs very long.
-Said games can also be bought online and the competition will pull ahead easily.

about what... ya dunce

*points at post 4*

honestly guys there is only one supreme court decision that is open right now that would be postable in gaming discussion.

Yes, and everyone on the interwebz is Americaring...

Also this, thread comes across quite heavily on the "random thing which happens in America is going to screw over the whole wooorrrrrrrrlldddd" fearmongering front.

While I do not personally care for this law I think that too many kids do get access to games they shouldn't, in these cases it is almost always the parents fault anyway.

 

[EkurioX]

...

Listen... I goin say somthn too you and you can take this lil bit of info... an use it like u know alll about it.

Media=video games
Media=TV
media=magazine
media=music
media=movies
media=cartoons


Do you see a trend there... Thats why anyone that hates video games--because their monopoly is plumitting frm video games--is not being listen too.
You can't rewrite legistations fr media because MEDIA Is everything.

Its not about the first bill of right -- ITS THAT MEDIA IS ANYTHING YOU READ, SEE, OR HEAR on a electronic device.

 

[demoman_chaos]

Wouldn't change much really. All places I've seen require a parent to be present when a M rated game is bought so you'd still have the 12 year olds calling you words that would make a sailor cringe because you beat them because their mom just wanted to shut them up.

But could also mean doom. Since games would become a controlled substance without first amendment protection, outright bans in other states might come around or worse. We may end up with a video game prohibition with many mafia families bootlegging games and shooting up each other.

Then again, if the tide is forced away from mature games, Kinect might actually have some use. It is a conspiracy so MS can get people to actually use that worthless camera contraption of theirs! I KNEW IT!! IT IS SO OBVIOUS!!

 

[OutforEC]

I don't see any problem with this. Restriction systems have been in place in other countries for a very long time and there's no kind of interference with game releases or availability in those territories because of it.

Might wanna check on the veracity of that statement with Australian gamers.

And OT: Really Ahnold? You off all people talking about violent media? I guess he never saw Commando, Predator, Terminator, Last Action Hero; the list goes on. Hell, a vast majority of the man's filmography is a violent videogame!

 

[infohippie]

Why are they passing a half-formed, vague bill in the most powerful court on the planet?

That's like a gourmet restaurant selling chicken Mcnuggets; its not supposed to happen.

Hahahaha, oh that's funny and touchingly naive. You are obviously not familiar with how laws (in any country, although it's most noticeable in the US) are passed and interpreted. I don't mean this as any kind of insult to you, by the way. I can see you're young and not exactly conversant with the ways of politics, but laws are often made vague, especially powerful ones, so they can be interpreted in whatever way is most beneficial to the government at the time. Courts can occasionally unpleasantly surprise governments in their interpretations of laws, but this is why politicians go to so much effort to stack courts with sympathetic judges.

Laws are like sausages - if you love either, it is best not to watch them being made.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

Hahahaha, oh that's funny and touchingly naive. You are obviously not familiar with how laws (in any country, although it's most noticeable in the US) are passed and interpreted. I don't mean this as any kind of insult to you, by the way. I can see you're young and not exactly conversant with the ways of politics, but laws are often made vague, especially powerful ones, so they can be interpreted in whatever way is most beneficial to the government at the time. Courts can occasionally unpleasantly surprise governments in their interpretations of laws, but this is why politicians go to so much effort to stack courts with sympathetic judges.

Laws are like sausages - if you love either, it is best not to watch them being made.

I'm sorry but I think you're the one being 'touchingly naive'.

Please don't assume that the US is the benchmark for the rest of the world, your political and judicial system is quite different from mine.

I have done an A-level in UK politics; I understand my political system much better than yours, but I know that they are different.

 

[Jake Lewis Clayton]

I just want to show a little bit of love to the american idiots, by helping them out with a few misconceptions.

- Stores over here (UK) have to ask for ID.

- Not verifying age can lead to a fine of up to 5000 pounds. (8184 us Dollars)

- Stores like walmart (asda as its called here) still stock 18+ games, infact asda and tesco, made quite alot of money out of the last black ops launch event at their 24 hour stores.


Also the most powerfull court in the world, nah i wouldn't say that about the supreme court. Heres why.

Courts like the hagues international court of justice have power over any UN members citizins in theory.

Courts like the European court of justice, and the european court of human rights, both sit with absolute authority over more than 500 million people, america has a population of what? 300.

Then theres courts like the indian supreme court, which makes ruleings which affect 4 times more people population wise than the american surpreme court can.


This is the problem with america, yes they are still a super power, but they really think they are the be all and end all when it comes to the world.

 

[RatRace123]

I really hope the bill get's thrown out. I'd rather not have M and some T rated games equated to porn, that would make them a lot harder to buy. (which as an adult, I can do just fine now.)

I don't get why I should have to suffer just so "THE CHILDREN CAN BE SAFE FROM THE EVILS OF VIDEOGAMES". Maybe if I had a child and thought of them as more than a huge annoyance, I'd feel differently.

 

[infohippie]

I'm sorry but I think you're the one being 'touchingly naive'.

Please don't assume that the US is the benchmark for the rest of the world, your political and judicial system is quite different from mine.

I have done an A-level in UK politics; I understand my political system much better than yours, but I know that they are different.

Oh, they're different alright. However, in the UK vague laws are still passed with the same shady intentions as in other nations. You have watched Yes, Minister, I take it? I think that was a lot closer to the truth than Parliament would rather you believed.

Incidentally, my political system is the Australian one, I'm an Aussie, not a Seppo. I did, however, assume you were probably American as at least half the people here are, so I pitched my comment at that level. Also, I apologise for that "naive" bit - I didn't intend to cause offence with it.