As I recall the Supreme Court is supposed to make a decision soon.

[Silas13013]

Bear in mind, the threat of this bill IS NOT that M rated games will be banned for minors, but VIOLENT games; where the definition is decided by the government.

Now, in my years I've seen all of the "governments is evil!" arguments and nothing has ever really panned out from it. However, because this bill is so poorly worded, it has the ability to be abused like no other. For example;
I let my kids play on my steam account if they ask. I tend to watch them because seeing them play reminds me of when I was their age and it really takes me back. However, I keep the mature games on a different steam account so that they don't accidentally play something like Amnesia and have to sleep with the lights on for the next month.

However, we had some of the neighbors over and I let my kids and some of the neighbor kids play Plants vs Zombies, which is my youngest boy's favorite. After about ten minutes of laughter coming from the other room, I led to guests to the computer room to watch the kids play, when all hell broke loose.

The cutesy plants appealed to one mother in particular until she saw the zombies. She was in the middle of voicing her concern about having zombies on the screen when the pea shooters popped his head off. With that, she screamed, slammed the laptop lid down and shoved her startled child into the arms of his father and began screeching about how I could be so stupid as to let such a violent game be played by young kids. My oldest (who is a little over eighteen now) groaned at her reaction and she turned her wrath against him as well. At that point, she was asked to leave and given very obvious hints that she was not to come back until her attitude was adjusted.

What I'm getting at here is that the ban isn't against M games, it's against violent games. While objecting to plants vs zombies is completely out of line (they just want a dance party!) the fact that they do want to eat your brains and their heads do pop off when killed could be spun as too violent for kids. Now we are in a situation where a store cannot sell a game from some arbitrary list that could change daily. Who will want to carry video games in general after that?

And another good point someone brought up is Steam. You can't verify age over the Internet easily and because of parents either giving kids credit cards early, or simply "borrowing" mommy and daddy's, you have a situation where kids have access to violent games without even going to the store. And make no mistake, Steam WILL be sued numerous times if this law passes because of that, unless they make some serious overhauls to their current system of buying games.

tl;dr (first off, quit being so lazy) but it's the wording of the bill that is worrisome. I'm all for restricting the sale of M rated games, but not "violent" ones since violence is in the eye of the beholder. Also Steam.

 

[Canid117]

You apparently don't know the ramifications; you do realize that in other countries, games can be banned outright, don't you? That's not legal in the US, but if the supreme court rules in favor of California, it would be. I'm going to refer you to this guy's post:

As I said before I do know what the alleged ramifications are. I see it all as your standard stereotypical US paranoia. Im not trying to be insulting here but honestly look around at the countries that have had video games banned in, look at the number of games banned and then look at what they were.

Think of it this way. Steam will have to shut down because the fines from this bill will bankrupt Valve. Then you do not get to access any of the games you have on there. That is not paranoia that is an almost guaranteed outcome.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

You apparently don't know the ramifications; you do realize that in other countries, games can be banned outright, don't you? That's not legal in the US, but if the supreme court rules in favor of California, it would be. I'm going to refer you to this guy's post:

As I said before I do know what the alleged ramifications are. I see it all as your standard stereotypical US paranoia. Im not trying to be insulting here but honestly look around at the countries that have had video games banned in, look at the number of games banned and then look at what they were.

Let me put it this way: It is quite literally un-American for the government to censor or ban anything. It violates the First Amendment, which is the most dearly held American principle. I honestly can't think of an equivalent in any other country; you're talking about things you don't understand.

Tell me do you know the definition of insanity?

I really do get it. You feel that this is only the beginning and if this law in enacted it will create a chain reaction of events that will undermine the entire first amendment. I am looking at it as an independent third party and seeing nothing but paranoia and fearmongering.

Think of it this way. Steam will have to shut down because the fines from this bill will bankrupt Valve. Then you do not get to access any of the games you have on there. That is not paranoia that is an almost guaranteed outcome.

Steam will not get closed down due to fines in fact if valve in intelligent there would be no fines at all. Do you know why all porn sites have not been shut down or why there is still online gambleing. It is because people are not all stupid and they know how to deal with something as minor as this law.

It's not just the chain reaction part; the law is illegal under any interpretation of the First Amendment. If the supreme court upholds it, they will have undermined our First Amendment freedoms, end of discussion. The chain could stop with videogames, and the First Amendment will still have been weakened. But the thing is, it won't stop there, because that's just not the way the American legal system works.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

EDIT: Explanation of which case in particular is linked three posts down. HINT: Its important to gaming in the United States and the rest of the world.

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

Not entirely true. Film is art, but under the miller test, individual films can still be censored. The miller test looks for three things:

Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,

Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,

Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value

It can only be applied to individual works, and the individual work has to fail on all three points. The vast majority of video games would not have failed the artistic merit portion even before the NEA added videogames to the list of things that it would fund -- and, relevantly, it is conceivable that a game that would fail it could be made even after the NEA's new policy. (For the record, the games I'm thinking of that exist and might fail the artistic merit portion are all Japan-only porn games, none of which have been released in the US, to my knowledge.)

Edit: It should, however, be overturned on principle, because it violates the first amendment. Besides, while individual works can be censored under the Miller test, you can't do it to an entire medium.

 

[Canid117]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

EDIT: Explanation of which case in particular is linked three posts down. HINT: Its important to gaming in the United States and the rest of the world.

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

The Supreme Court is more powerful than the NEA.

 

[Jodah]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

A decision about what exactly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association

Also known as Schwarzenegger v. Entertainment Merchants Association for those too lazy to follow the link.

Well what's the problem with this? Minors should be restricted from playing games that are innapropriate for them...

EDIT: Read the above post...HUH WHAT? No more M rated games? Even for 18+?

Because it puts video games into the same category as porn. No other media is legally restricted. Movies and music have systems similar to the ESRB, but are less enforced. Video game sales to minors are already heavily enforced by retailers, this is just an unnecessary, and offensive, law.

The no more M-Rated games is a worst case scenario theory. Because retailers would be punished for selling them to minors, they may refuse to carry them. If retailers refuse to carry them, developers won't make them.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

This is a court case I am watching very closely. Could have some serious spillover consequences for film and written works, depending upon how broadly the Court rules (though I doubt they'll go broad on this one). Considering almost a dozen states have passed overturned legislation like California's in the past and two are already on record as willing to reintroduce similar legislation should California win, this is a highly important case considering prohibition of M-rated game sales to minors will limit the economic feasibility of making those games, as others have stated.

Plus, it's very much in the air who will win: Sotomayor and Kagan have definite communitarian-liberal stances, Scalia went amazingly pro-EMA (I nearly shat myself when I heard about his systematic tearing petitioner's counsel a new one during oral) and Alito and Thomas can be all but guaranteed to stick with Scalia, despite Thomas' overwhelming stupidity which makes me think he'll rule in favor of petitioner; I'd put cash on Kennedy leaning in favor of EMA given the double whammy of libertarian policy and corporatism, and Ginsburg and Breyer are definitely big on the First Amendment; and god only knows what goes through Roberts' head.

Personally, my money is on a 6-3 or 7-2 ruling in favor of EMA, based on the vagueness of "violence" in said legislation and the appropriateness of the Miller test as a bar for what constitutes "violence". I'll be very surprised if we see a broad ruling that video games are considerable as art.

 

[Canid117]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

EDIT: Explanation of which case in particular is linked three posts down. HINT: Its important to gaming in the United States and the rest of the world.

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

The Supreme Court is more powerful than the NEA.

And the first amendment is more powerful than the Supreme Court. The congress may be able to change it, but the people are more powerful than any government. If they piss them off, government by consent makes the U.S. no longer a nation. If no one wants to be governed by you, you will soon fall to the wrath of the people as they storm government buildings calling for blood. It happened before, and it will happen again.

Alas the first amendment has been broken before by a government backed by an ignorant or biased public. Hell one of the people whos names appears on the deceleration of independence passed a law saying it was illegal to criticize the government with popular support. Google the alien and sedition acts. I dont want Video Games to have to go through what movies went through with the Hays Code and what Comics went through with the Comics Code and books went through with bonfires. It has happened before and it might happen again.

 

[Canid117]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

EDIT: Explanation of which case in particular is linked three posts down. HINT: Its important to gaming in the United States and the rest of the world.

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

The Supreme Court is more powerful than the NEA.

And the first amendment is more powerful than the Supreme Court. The congress may be able to change it, but the people are more powerful than any government. If they piss them off, government by consent makes the U.S. no longer a nation. If no one wants to be governed by you, you will soon fall to the wrath of the people as they storm government buildings calling for blood. It happened before, and it will happen again.

Alas the first amendment has been broken before by a government backed by an ignorant or biased public. Hell one of the people whos names appears on the deceleration of independence passed a law saying it was illegal to criticize the government with popular support. Google the alien and sedition acts. I dont want Video Games to have to go through what movies went through with the Hays Code and what Comics went through with the Comics Code and books went through with bonfires. It has happened before and it might happen again.

That was due to the people not caring. When the people don't get to twitter their facebooks, shop for bad music in Itunes, or be inconvenienced in any way they become angry as hell. When video games become a child's toy with elmo because they are scared of the law, that entire industry, as big as the movie industry, will collapse causing the biggest recession we have ever seen in America. An entire industry worth of jobs become worthless and it all goes to hell. They won't let it pass because it fucks with the status quo, fucks the economy, and will piss off the population when their halo game is canceled. No one in the government wants that, especially when the republicans are trying to make America to look like a tyrannical force because of democrats. For the sake of votes, it will die due to back room politics so they can keep their cushy office with their busty mistresses hidden in the closet.

This law wasnt just passed by a half dozen old men in a room. It was voted in by the public of the state of California. That means that plenty of people still dont care.

 

[Canid117]

And by soon I mean sometime this month. Anyone else anxiously waiting for the result?

EDIT: Explanation of which case in particular is linked three posts down. HINT: Its important to gaming in the United States and the rest of the world.

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

The Supreme Court is more powerful than the NEA.

And the first amendment is more powerful than the Supreme Court. The congress may be able to change it, but the people are more powerful than any government. If they piss them off, government by consent makes the U.S. no longer a nation. If no one wants to be governed by you, you will soon fall to the wrath of the people as they storm government buildings calling for blood. It happened before, and it will happen again.

Alas the first amendment has been broken before by a government backed by an ignorant or biased public. Hell one of the people whos names appears on the deceleration of independence passed a law saying it was illegal to criticize the government with popular support. Google the alien and sedition acts. I dont want Video Games to have to go through what movies went through with the Hays Code and what Comics went through with the Comics Code and books went through with bonfires. It has happened before and it might happen again.

That was due to the people not caring. When the people don't get to twitter their facebooks, shop for bad music in Itunes, or be inconvenienced in any way they become angry as hell. When video games become a child's toy with elmo because they are scared of the law, that entire industry, as big as the movie industry, will collapse causing the biggest recession we have ever seen in America. An entire industry worth of jobs become worthless and it all goes to hell. They won't let it pass because it fucks with the status quo, fucks the economy, and will piss off the population when their halo game is canceled. No one in the government wants that, especially when the republicans are trying to make America to look like a tyrannical force because of democrats. For the sake of votes, it will die due to back room politics so they can keep their cushy office with their busty mistresses hidden in the closet.

This law wasnt just passed by a half dozen old men in a room. It was voted in by the public of the state of California. That means that plenty of people still dont care.

Except it was truck down by the federal government. If it goes through, expect a shit storm from republicans about how its turning into Nazi Germany and how its over regulation and tramples on rights. People listen to those who can yell the loudest, and alarmists yell louder than family values in all things.

You mean those same republicans who claim that video games are solely responsible for every youth crime in America today?

 

[guchifaN7]

Its going to be over turned because games are now recognized as art. You can't censor art.

The Supreme Court is more powerful than the NEA.

And the first amendment is more powerful than the Supreme Court. The congress may be able to change it, but the people are more powerful than any government. If they piss them off, government by consent makes the U.S. no longer a nation. If no one wants to be governed by you, you will soon fall to the wrath of the people as they storm government buildings calling for blood. It happened before, and it will happen again.

Alas the first amendment has been broken before by a government backed by an ignorant or biased public. Hell one of the people whos names appears on the deceleration of independence passed a law saying it was illegal to criticize the government with popular support. Google the alien and sedition acts. I dont want Video Games to have to go through what movies went through with the Hays Code and what Comics went through with the Comics Code and books went through with bonfires. It has happened before and it might happen again.

That was due to the people not caring. When the people don't get to twitter their facebooks, shop for bad music in Itunes, or be inconvenienced in any way they become angry as hell. When video games become a child's toy with elmo because they are scared of the law, that entire industry, as big as the movie industry, will collapse causing the biggest recession we have ever seen in America. An entire industry worth of jobs become worthless and it all goes to hell. They won't let it pass because it fucks with the status quo, fucks the economy, and will piss off the population when their halo game is canceled. No one in the government wants that, especially when the republicans are trying to make America to look like a tyrannical force because of democrats. For the sake of votes, it will die due to back room politics so they can keep their cushy office with their busty mistresses hidden in the closet.

This law wasnt just passed by a half dozen old men in a room. It was voted in by the public of the state of California. That means that plenty of people still dont care.

Except it was truck down by the federal government. If it goes through, expect a shit storm from republicans about how its turning into Nazi Germany and how its over regulation and tramples on rights. People listen to those who can yell the loudest, and alarmists yell louder than family values in all things.

You mean those same republicans who claim that video games are solely responsible for every youth crime in America today?

If it gives them a chance to get back into power, they will backstab it and claim they saved America from the evil nazis. Normal people wont even check.

And people who actually understand this stuff will have realized that it was crap from the very beginning.