Ashamed to be part of the gaming community some days (like today).
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How does this criticism make any sense? By far the most common criticism of BioWare that I hear is that they're NOT FOCUSING ENOUGH on the story elements recently, focusing more on engineering a combat experience that's familiar to the broadest demographic possible. The option to skip combat seems to be coming from a very different camp.
I also think it's incredibly naive to think that BioWare assumes it can do no wrong and pays no attention to criticism whatsoever. Criticism is a fundamental part of improvement, anyone with half a brain knows that, and in all likelihood BioWare certainly hasn't forgotten that - maybe they don't care about it as much, maybe they're weighing it against the praise they get for doing the exact same things, maybe they don't see viable alternatives, I don't know. But there seems to be a tendency to pretend they just live in their own little world and spew out games, when it seems incredibly unlikely that's the case.
Her attitude towards games is pretty contradictory.
- She's a writer, so she's allowed to not play games. Her skills and interests pertain to the narrative, and nothing else.
- But then she will have an opinion on controversial issues like being able to skip gameplay sections.
Actually, come to think of it, that's probably perfectly logical: writer ego. Skip the boss battles so we can enjoy her mediocre prose some more.
I don't like her attitude, it's typical Bioware, and like someone above me pointed out, it's Bioware that's keeping the myth alive that they have some of the best writing in the industry, by use of a clever PR machine and shooting voices of dissent down on their own forums. Hell,I like their games (though they are getting worse IMO), but some of their dialogues are freakin' horrible!
So, yes. I think Jennifer Hepler is in the wrong job. But it makes me sad how so many people can't express this in a mature way.
That's the freedom of the internet for ya though. It has the same asshole/nice people ratio and respective loudness levels as the rest of the planet.
If I were her, I wouldn't pay attention to it (though some of those attacks are harsh, man. Poor girl.) She should just let it blow over, stay the hell off shit like Twitter, and spend her time practicing her writing. I wish her all the best with that.
- She's a writer, so she's allowed to not play games. Her skills and interests pertain to the narrative, and nothing else.
- But then she will have an opinion on controversial issues like being able to skip gameplay sections.
Actually, come to think of it, that's probably perfectly logical: writer ego. Skip the boss battles so we can enjoy her mediocre prose some more.
I don't like her attitude, it's typical Bioware, and like someone above me pointed out, it's Bioware that's keeping the myth alive that they have some of the best writing in the industry, by use of a clever PR machine and shooting voices of dissent down on their own forums. Hell,I like their games (though they are getting worse IMO), but some of their dialogues are freakin' horrible!
So, yes. I think Jennifer Hepler is in the wrong job. But it makes me sad how so many people can't express this in a mature way.
That's the freedom of the internet for ya though. It has the same asshole/nice people ratio and respective loudness levels as the rest of the planet.
If I were her, I wouldn't pay attention to it (though some of those attacks are harsh, man. Poor girl.) She should just let it blow over, stay the hell off shit like Twitter, and spend her time practicing her writing. I wish her all the best with that.
Why... Oh, why in the fuck... Would anyone give as much respect to reply back towards those fucknuts that roam the Internet and spew self-entitled bullshit so much, that not even all the septic tanks in the world could fill?
Once they drop good manners, why would you grace them with your viewpoints? It's only going to get worse. It's better to just shut your clapper and shake your head to the sides at all those hateful comments, shut down the laptop and play tennis in peace.
That's what I would do (given I would be popular enough to have a fan-hate base following me and a tennis field in my back yard or in the vicinity).
Once they drop good manners, why would you grace them with your viewpoints? It's only going to get worse. It's better to just shut your clapper and shake your head to the sides at all those hateful comments, shut down the laptop and play tennis in peace.
That's what I would do (given I would be popular enough to have a fan-hate base following me and a tennis field in my back yard or in the vicinity).
I agree completely that the people harassing her and attacking her personally* are dipshits, but I'm so fucking sick of "self-entitled" being thrown around in every single thread as a catch-all insult.Still Life said:
Self-entitled applies to those kids who cried about not getting their Christmas iphones or cars in the right color, it doesn't apply to someone just being an asshole on the internet.
They're hiding behind computer screens, put them in the same room with the woman and they would be much more polite.
*Not to be confused with attacking her work. She's a professional writer, she needs to be able to handle people critiquing her work on she's in the wrong business.
Meh, people are dicks. If you feel ashamed to be part of Group X which aint even a fucking group at all then thats your problem. I only feel ashamed of shit that *I* have done.
As for Hepler, don't know her, don't know her work but if she is responsible for the drastic drop in quality of Bioware games then fuck her, fuck her in her stupid fucking ass. If it aint her fault then okay, good for her for not being the reason they now suck.
As for Hepler, don't know her, don't know her work but if she is responsible for the drastic drop in quality of Bioware games then fuck her, fuck her in her stupid fucking ass. If it aint her fault then okay, good for her for not being the reason they now suck.
this also happens alot with normal people.
justin beiber......TROLLLLLLLLL HIMMMMMMMM HES A GIRL NOT A GUY
selena gomez........BAD MUSIC VIDEO = SHE'S THE DEVIL
the leave brittany alone guy/girl.......BURN HER AT THE CROSS
(I don't love my examples I don't hate them ethier)
Seriosuly humanity take a step back look at the shit that you are throwing and come to the realisation that you've thrown so much shit at certin people that your hands, feet and bodies are covered with it. grow the fuck up >.< it will never be cool to hate somebody.
And hating for such petty fucking reasons to.
justin beiber......TROLLLLLLLLL HIMMMMMMMM HES A GIRL NOT A GUY
selena gomez........BAD MUSIC VIDEO = SHE'S THE DEVIL
the leave brittany alone guy/girl.......BURN HER AT THE CROSS
(I don't love my examples I don't hate them ethier)
Seriosuly humanity take a step back look at the shit that you are throwing and come to the realisation that you've thrown so much shit at certin people that your hands, feet and bodies are covered with it. grow the fuck up >.< it will never be cool to hate somebody.
And hating for such petty fucking reasons to.
The whole reason for this shitstorm is DA2's fake critical reception. People were assured they were getting a 10/10 game, but instead got something that was disappointing at best if they liked DA:O, and a goddamn insult if they ever played RPGs before 2007.
Exactly the same thing happened with SW:TOR. It was obvious from the start it would be another short-lasting mediocrity like WAR, yet it was hailed as the MMO revolution to change MMOs forever because of the EA stamp on it. People looked for an explanation, weren't given one, so they found a scapegoat.
Yes, this event is unfortunate and disgraceful, but it's only a symptom of a dysfunctional and detatched mainstream media that keeps testing its audience's patience.
I hope the ad revenue, press packages and invitations are worth it.
Exactly the same thing happened with SW:TOR. It was obvious from the start it would be another short-lasting mediocrity like WAR, yet it was hailed as the MMO revolution to change MMOs forever because of the EA stamp on it. People looked for an explanation, weren't given one, so they found a scapegoat.
Yes, this event is unfortunate and disgraceful, but it's only a symptom of a dysfunctional and detatched mainstream media that keeps testing its audience's patience.
I hope the ad revenue, press packages and invitations are worth it.
I say let those wankers wank. Nothing lasts forever and disillusionment will gradually set in as people (gamers and BioWare employees) grow older and see the trend for what it is.Anthraxus said:
Mass "Exodus" imminent...exit BioWare. Thank you for the good times.
The gaming community? seriously what is this? I am just a person who happens to enjoy gaming it does no good for gamers to cut themselves off like this and pretend they are part of something that only exists in the eyes and minds of some people `the gaming community` is now a phrase that has little meaning actually who hasnt played a game ever in their lifetime very few I bet.
Anyway back to the article I honestly have never heard of her before this so I have no preformed opinions of her but I am inclined to like her in some way she seems to speak honestly even if she would have done better to keep her mouth shut and I like that in people as long as they are being honest and not going out of their way to be rude so much talk is hampered by politics and PR bullshit its untrue.
As for spamming her twitter account well that seems fair thats what twitter allows and if you put yourself in the firing line expect to get hit, her rebuttal was also perfectly fair and quite amusing in my eyes it you cant argue with thousands of people shouting it just incites them more (which is why I liked her rebuttal) and TBH all she could do is either keep quiet (best thing for PR) or respond in the way she did while she could actually be attacked in a much more literal way if someone is crazy (stupid) enough to do so.
I also like how the Bioware fanboys have singled her out (or so it seems) and used her as a scapegoat for why Bioware games suck now even though of course they have great writing and gameplay, er contradiction there people. Do they suck or are they great is the writing good or bad if its good whats the problem if its bad and she left would the writing suddenly become great? almost certainly not but I bet the fans would kid themselves that it would at least until they get dissapointed again and need another scapegoat.
Anyway back to the article I honestly have never heard of her before this so I have no preformed opinions of her but I am inclined to like her in some way she seems to speak honestly even if she would have done better to keep her mouth shut and I like that in people as long as they are being honest and not going out of their way to be rude so much talk is hampered by politics and PR bullshit its untrue.
As for spamming her twitter account well that seems fair thats what twitter allows and if you put yourself in the firing line expect to get hit, her rebuttal was also perfectly fair and quite amusing in my eyes it you cant argue with thousands of people shouting it just incites them more (which is why I liked her rebuttal) and TBH all she could do is either keep quiet (best thing for PR) or respond in the way she did while she could actually be attacked in a much more literal way if someone is crazy (stupid) enough to do so.
I also like how the Bioware fanboys have singled her out (or so it seems) and used her as a scapegoat for why Bioware games suck now even though of course they have great writing and gameplay, er contradiction there people. Do they suck or are they great is the writing good or bad if its good whats the problem if its bad and she left would the writing suddenly become great? almost certainly not but I bet the fans would kid themselves that it would at least until they get dissapointed again and need another scapegoat.
Absolutely, people shouldn't bully her this way. It's not right to harass another human being like this, and there isn't really anything to gain, except making someone else miserable.
But the reason for doing it, the way I see it, isn't that wrong, and it surprises me people seem to dismiss all those reasons in this thread.
The bad thing is not her claim that she doesn't like videogames. She is a writer, and as long as that's what she does, writes, it doesn't matter that she doesn't play videogames, as long as she can make the narrative work in what is a very different media from books.
The bad thing is not that she wants to be able to skip gameplay. Sure, it's retarded, and it makes you wonder what the purpose of the game then would be, instead of releasing the story as an animated film or perhaps just a book. Yes, some games have had such an option before, but it was as a bailout option, only availabe after several tries, as to not slow the player down, mired in frustration. That is not what she means, and you know it. What she suggested was a button that she can press instantly, so she only has to read dialogue and watch cutscenes. Still, not bad, just stupid.
The bad thing isn't even when she said that she considered Twilight some of the best books of this decade. Not in a "Clever marketing and manipulating of a target audience" kind of way, but in a "I can't get enough of Bella and Edward" kind of way. It makes you wonder what kind of writer Hepler is, and what she herself wants to put in her stories. Doesn't take long to make some conclusions on just why everyone in DA2 suddenly was like JRPG protagonists, dark and brooding - and yet, everyone and everything could have their pants romanced off, and(and bear with me, I'm not sure if this is true for DA2 or was just rumored for ME3) everyone can be romanced by same-sex PC's, regardless of their personality. That is not why she is hated either. While this makes you wonder about her competency, but you could technically be a fan of the worst drivel(we all have guilty pleasures, after all), and still create amazing art.
No, what makes her hated, what is so bad about her, is that ever since she has arrived at Bioware, things have gone downhill. Now, some people have said in this thread that they have liked every Bioware game they have made of late, and that's cool, I am glad you enjoyed them and had fun. But a lot of us didn't. To me, Dragon Age II was by far the worst game last year, already incredibly bad on it's own, the trash bin-quality was only compunded further when you remembered it was a sequel. To a pretty damn good game that, while not Baldurs Gate, was still good enough(hell, I've completed it 4 times) to give people a lot of hope, hope that there was still some good to be found among the big studios, hope that Bioware would never abandon us, keep making their amazing story driven games. Mass Effect did the same, though people were a bit more divided there. But when DA2 was released... oh man. It was like a punch in the balls. It was OFFENSIVE to play, and not even because I had paid money for something so horrible, but because I had loved Bioware, loved Dragon Age: Origins, and had been looking so much forward to what should have been an amazing return to Ferelden... And then I got this... this... I don't even know what it was. My belowed WRPG mechanics that had already been dumped down in DA: O was dumped down even further, to a level where it was hard to see whether the game wanted to be an RPG or God of War. Still, I could live with it. The mechanics were not bad. Oh, and the fact that I ran the same dungeon 3876541541 times, patrolled the same coast area 1451 times, climbed the same mountain 155 times... Yeah. What the hell was that about? Still, I could live with it.
No, where everything really turned to shit, was in the story. Ho. Ly. Crap, that was bad. A completely one-dimensional cast of characters(especially Fenris and Anders), a disjointed plot cut in three unrelated parts fraught with loose ends, terrible dialogue, and god. Damn. Romance. Everywhere. Don't get me wrong - I think romance options can provide a great tool for roleplaying. But it needs to make sense. Not everyone around you should be instantly in to you, regardless of sex, race and so on. It doesn't make sense. And the route there shouldn't just be "by being nice". Yahtzee exagerrates a lot, for comedic purposes, but something he wasn't wrong about, which I experienced myself, was that simply being nice to Anders, a man you have a lot of reason to be nice to when he tells you of how he and his fellow mages are hunted, opressed and enslaved, will suddenly decide that people who are humane to him must be his big love, and then, when you try to tell the man that you not shitting all over his tortured existence isn't an attempt to "make advances" then he turns into a pouting, insufferable *****. I mean, more than he already was. God i hated Anders.
It was the writing that truly ruined Dragon Age II, at least for me. It felt more like a piece of internet fan fiction, that a masterpiece from the company associated with great stories and complex plots. Mass Effect 2, while still very good IMO, really suffered story wise as well, compared to the first. And from what I have played of SW:TOR, it's a repetition of the same, ruining the otherwise very interesting PC-centered storytelling.
Now, take that dissapointment, that HATE of the story, the thing that Jennifer Hepler is very much responsible for, and suddenly, those three other problems suddenly aren't so forgivable anymore, because it's hard to not look at them and go "Well, of course she would ruin the game, look at this!"
Fair enough if you liked DAII, and if you did then indeed, it'd be hard to understand why people hate her so, but try for a moment to imagine that you agreed with what I have just wrote. Try to imagine the greatest dissapontment in years(I'm not counting DN:FOREVER, we all knew that would be bad), imagine seeing your former heroes plummet into the abyss, and imagine that at the center of it all, sits that woman. At least, as far as visible targets stand. She is not the only writer, and we don't know how the writing process was.
And to the guy saying she receives hate because she is fat: No. Go away.
Of course, there are other reasons why Bioware is fucking things up lately. EA is probably a big factor.
But the reason for doing it, the way I see it, isn't that wrong, and it surprises me people seem to dismiss all those reasons in this thread.
The bad thing is not her claim that she doesn't like videogames. She is a writer, and as long as that's what she does, writes, it doesn't matter that she doesn't play videogames, as long as she can make the narrative work in what is a very different media from books.
The bad thing is not that she wants to be able to skip gameplay. Sure, it's retarded, and it makes you wonder what the purpose of the game then would be, instead of releasing the story as an animated film or perhaps just a book. Yes, some games have had such an option before, but it was as a bailout option, only availabe after several tries, as to not slow the player down, mired in frustration. That is not what she means, and you know it. What she suggested was a button that she can press instantly, so she only has to read dialogue and watch cutscenes. Still, not bad, just stupid.
The bad thing isn't even when she said that she considered Twilight some of the best books of this decade. Not in a "Clever marketing and manipulating of a target audience" kind of way, but in a "I can't get enough of Bella and Edward" kind of way. It makes you wonder what kind of writer Hepler is, and what she herself wants to put in her stories. Doesn't take long to make some conclusions on just why everyone in DA2 suddenly was like JRPG protagonists, dark and brooding - and yet, everyone and everything could have their pants romanced off, and(and bear with me, I'm not sure if this is true for DA2 or was just rumored for ME3) everyone can be romanced by same-sex PC's, regardless of their personality. That is not why she is hated either. While this makes you wonder about her competency, but you could technically be a fan of the worst drivel(we all have guilty pleasures, after all), and still create amazing art.
No, what makes her hated, what is so bad about her, is that ever since she has arrived at Bioware, things have gone downhill. Now, some people have said in this thread that they have liked every Bioware game they have made of late, and that's cool, I am glad you enjoyed them and had fun. But a lot of us didn't. To me, Dragon Age II was by far the worst game last year, already incredibly bad on it's own, the trash bin-quality was only compunded further when you remembered it was a sequel. To a pretty damn good game that, while not Baldurs Gate, was still good enough(hell, I've completed it 4 times) to give people a lot of hope, hope that there was still some good to be found among the big studios, hope that Bioware would never abandon us, keep making their amazing story driven games. Mass Effect did the same, though people were a bit more divided there. But when DA2 was released... oh man. It was like a punch in the balls. It was OFFENSIVE to play, and not even because I had paid money for something so horrible, but because I had loved Bioware, loved Dragon Age: Origins, and had been looking so much forward to what should have been an amazing return to Ferelden... And then I got this... this... I don't even know what it was. My belowed WRPG mechanics that had already been dumped down in DA: O was dumped down even further, to a level where it was hard to see whether the game wanted to be an RPG or God of War. Still, I could live with it. The mechanics were not bad. Oh, and the fact that I ran the same dungeon 3876541541 times, patrolled the same coast area 1451 times, climbed the same mountain 155 times... Yeah. What the hell was that about? Still, I could live with it.
No, where everything really turned to shit, was in the story. Ho. Ly. Crap, that was bad. A completely one-dimensional cast of characters(especially Fenris and Anders), a disjointed plot cut in three unrelated parts fraught with loose ends, terrible dialogue, and god. Damn. Romance. Everywhere. Don't get me wrong - I think romance options can provide a great tool for roleplaying. But it needs to make sense. Not everyone around you should be instantly in to you, regardless of sex, race and so on. It doesn't make sense. And the route there shouldn't just be "by being nice". Yahtzee exagerrates a lot, for comedic purposes, but something he wasn't wrong about, which I experienced myself, was that simply being nice to Anders, a man you have a lot of reason to be nice to when he tells you of how he and his fellow mages are hunted, opressed and enslaved, will suddenly decide that people who are humane to him must be his big love, and then, when you try to tell the man that you not shitting all over his tortured existence isn't an attempt to "make advances" then he turns into a pouting, insufferable *****. I mean, more than he already was. God i hated Anders.
It was the writing that truly ruined Dragon Age II, at least for me. It felt more like a piece of internet fan fiction, that a masterpiece from the company associated with great stories and complex plots. Mass Effect 2, while still very good IMO, really suffered story wise as well, compared to the first. And from what I have played of SW:TOR, it's a repetition of the same, ruining the otherwise very interesting PC-centered storytelling.
Now, take that dissapointment, that HATE of the story, the thing that Jennifer Hepler is very much responsible for, and suddenly, those three other problems suddenly aren't so forgivable anymore, because it's hard to not look at them and go "Well, of course she would ruin the game, look at this!"
Fair enough if you liked DAII, and if you did then indeed, it'd be hard to understand why people hate her so, but try for a moment to imagine that you agreed with what I have just wrote. Try to imagine the greatest dissapontment in years(I'm not counting DN:FOREVER, we all knew that would be bad), imagine seeing your former heroes plummet into the abyss, and imagine that at the center of it all, sits that woman. At least, as far as visible targets stand. She is not the only writer, and we don't know how the writing process was.
And to the guy saying she receives hate because she is fat: No. Go away.
Of course, there are other reasons why Bioware is fucking things up lately. EA is probably a big factor.
I think you are a bit off there. The biodrones, as they are often called, do not hate Hepler. It's those of us who are not fanboys, who can see when the company does wrong, that does. The bioware fanboys are completely oblivious to the failures of Bioware. You should see their forums some time, especially the SW:TOR boards. Oh man, the denial.dimensional said:
"I just figure they're jealous that I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either." ROFL, she brought it!
Yea some gamers take things way too seriously. Listen, I worship some games, but its not my fricken religion. Some gamers take something thats so minor, yet so different that they blow it out of proportion. Skip actions scenes, how dare they! Its an option, you don't have to skip them.
Now if I play ME3 and Shepard goes out and finds some ancient weapon that causes all the Reapers to self destruct at a push of a button then I would be a pretty pissed off.
But this minor OPTIONAL changes shouldn't have created such a mass of hatred as it did. As a gamer I say to you all who are a part of this go outside and get a life so you finally have something real to ***** about. God knows I do.
Yea some gamers take things way too seriously. Listen, I worship some games, but its not my fricken religion. Some gamers take something thats so minor, yet so different that they blow it out of proportion. Skip actions scenes, how dare they! Its an option, you don't have to skip them.
Now if I play ME3 and Shepard goes out and finds some ancient weapon that causes all the Reapers to self destruct at a push of a button then I would be a pretty pissed off.
But this minor OPTIONAL changes shouldn't have created such a mass of hatred as it did. As a gamer I say to you all who are a part of this go outside and get a life so you finally have something real to ***** about. God knows I do.
She wrote the Anvil of the Void questline in DA:O, as well as most of the dwarven dialogue. She also did Anders, Bethany, Leandra, Elthina, Cullen, and Sebastian Vael in DA2 (thanks Dragon Age wiki).Littaly said:
I try not to rant at the Internet, there seems very little point in a place where anonymity is king, but reading what Hepler has had to put up with really gets my back up. The sheer number of people holding on to a belief of self-entitlement is staggering. The "I don't like it therefore it's shit" mentality. I'm right, everyone else is wrong. Urgh. Whether or not these people trolling her agree with the opinion she voiced doesn't give them the right to spout vitriol over it. Bioware is not ruined. The writing isn't a death knell. They may just have not liked it all that much, so really need to just get over themselves.
And if they can't even craft an insult that doesn't rely on criticising someone elses' appearance or gender...?
Buy you know what? I actually think her "skip the combat" idea has its merits. My other half and I play a lot of games, and it's not something we'd consider using. But I'm not thinking about us. I'm thinking about his mum who, whilst she loves the stories, characters, mysteries and puzzle solving in games like Tomb Raider or Uncharted, doesn't have the manual dexterity to pull off all the running, jumping or shooting required to advance the plot, thanks to arthritis inher fingers. What exactly would be so inherrently wrong with having a game mode that meant she didn't have to rely on pixel perfect moves? Why shouldn't even more people be able to get enjoyment out of the medium of games?
Uhh... one question.
WHY HER!!???
Out of all the people in the game industry who deserved slander and harassment, it is sad and pathetic that a writer for BioWare is getting it instead. Here is a crazy idea, and just bare with me here: Why not go after someone who deserves it? Ya know, like the people who punish you for buying a game legitly by infecting it with horrible DRM. Or that guy at Activision who said, "There is nothing wrong with Call of Duty, everyone who says otherwise is just a hipster contrarist". Or the people responsible for Nintendo localization? You know, the ENGLISH games they refused to bring to the USA but they released in Europe anyway? There was a movement and everything for it.
The point is, I would sure like to see this level of passion and hate over something relevant.
WHY HER!!???
Out of all the people in the game industry who deserved slander and harassment, it is sad and pathetic that a writer for BioWare is getting it instead. Here is a crazy idea, and just bare with me here: Why not go after someone who deserves it? Ya know, like the people who punish you for buying a game legitly by infecting it with horrible DRM. Or that guy at Activision who said, "There is nothing wrong with Call of Duty, everyone who says otherwise is just a hipster contrarist". Or the people responsible for Nintendo localization? You know, the ENGLISH games they refused to bring to the USA but they released in Europe anyway? There was a movement and everything for it.
The point is, I would sure like to see this level of passion and hate over something relevant.
The gaming community has alarmingly levels of misogyny that make me think that we shouldn't be taken seriously by the public yet.Zhukov said:
OP: What I said in the other thread:
Hehe, no, I'm not advocating some kind of totalitarian police state where free thought is bad.Longshot said:
I just object a little to the black and white standpoint, where shades of grey don't exist. It's "I don't like it so therefore it's terrible and everything is ruined forever", rather than "I don't like it, but other people might so... whatever". It feels... Shortsighted? I mean, I love Final Fantasy, but I know there's people out there who can't stand it. Live and let live, I'm not going to tell them they're wrong because they don't have the same taste I do.
