Assassins Creed 4: Far Cry?

[J Tyran]

With the success of Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon Ubisoft said they will make more projects like that, basically making a tweaked and reskinned version of an existing game. The new Assassins Creed is pretty fun but what if they used that to make another similar game? Would you buy it?

I was thinking it might be fun to play Assassins Creed 4 in the modern day, say in the Pacific with small and medium motor boats, launches and cutters, firearms, shanty towns and avoiding whatever the authorities try to throw at you. I chose Far Cry as the game because the feel of the islands is what I was thinking of and imaging how much fun it would be if you played as the pirates, boarding & looting ships off shore and protecting your resources and "farms" instead of having anything to do with Far Cry 3 except for a similar location and theme.

Would you want to play that? Or does anyone else have a cool idea?

 

[stroopwafel]

Definitely. I think a game about a 'modern' pirate(off the coast of Somalia or whatever) would be really awesome. A Far Cry/AC hybrid would work really well in this context. Yeah you'd be outnumbered and outgunned by all the convoys and PMC's roaming the waters but that would bring the challenge. You could have a progression system of like starting in a fishing boat attacking small merchant vessels and then later moving up to attacking entire container ships to even military vessels. You could start as like a local thug and then 'move up' to say a player in some kind of local/regional conflict.

AC4 and Far Cry 3 are both games I love so yeah, a combination of those two definitely sound like music to my ears.

 

[GoaThief]

I'd love a period piratical game in first person. The first person segments in AC4 really drives home how much more immersive it is than third. Platforming and melee combat have proven to be successful in it too so with the right team it could be very special indeed.

I wouldn't be interested in a game featuring modern piracy for obvious reasons and I don't think any major publisher would like to be seen glorifying often quite horrific crimes against innocents.

 

[SeeIn2D]

I loved Blood Dragon and it helped me get through my last couple weeks of school last year during my stressful finals so I would love a sequel that could do the same this year.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

As long as it kept the satirical, totally not serious about itself at all tone to it, I would be for it.

 

[J Tyran]

I wouldn't be interested in a game featuring modern piracy for obvious reasons and I don't think any major publisher would like to be seen glorifying often quite horrific crimes against innocents.

I can see why you feel that way but is that the only line you draw? We have games that glorify war, torture, murder, theft, robbery, drug production & dealing and consumption, kidnapping and just about every nasty aspect of life. Games like Grand Theft Auto for instance or all of the MMS that turn mirrors of very nasty real life conflicts with heavy civilian casualties into

Spoiler: playgrounds

Then you have other games like Saints Row which make all of the above into a joke thats delivered with all the subtlety of a 4ft long purple dildo to the face, even Assassins Creed 4 itself glorifies a brutal and lawless period in history. Innocents where killed and tortured and communities where destroyed, Assassins Creed 3 dealt with some of the greatest crimes against humanity and turned slavery and ethnic cleansing into entertainment. I am not trying to call you out, I am genuinely curious why you draw the line with modern day piracy or to see if you avoid games that deal with dreadful real life actions and events altogether.

 

[BrotherRool]

I wouldn't be interested in a game featuring modern piracy for obvious reasons and I don't think any major publisher would like to be seen glorifying often quite horrific crimes against innocents.

I can see why you feel that way but is that the only line you draw? We have games that glorify war, torture, murder, theft, robbery, drug production & dealing and consumption, kidnapping and just about every nasty aspect of life. Games like Grand Theft Auto for instance or all of the MMS that turn mirrors of very nasty real life conflicts with heavy civilian casualties into

Then you have other games like Saints Row which make all of the above into a joke thats delivered with all the subtlety of a 4ft long purple dildo to the face, even Assassins Creed 4 itself glorifies a brutal and lawless period in history. Innocents where killed and tortured and communities where destroyed, Assassins Creed 3 dealt with some of the greatest crimes against humanity and turned slavery and ethnic cleansing into entertainment. I am not trying to call you out, I am genuinely curious why you draw the line with modern day piracy or to see if you avoid games that deal with dreadful real life actions and events altogether.

You make an interesting point. I had the same gut reaction that I would find Somalian piracy something that went way too far but you're examples are pretty reasonable. For example would I be so touchy about a game with a Sierra Leone warlord? There must be games out there which have them as a villain, but I think I would find that a bit tasteless too. One with them as a protagonist probably would be outrage worthy.

I think MMS' genuinely are a bit despicable, and that's with them dealing with very vague unspecific and fantastical conflicts in Fakistan or with Russian villains. ACIV has some of the benefit of history on it's side, I think the idea that somalian pirates are something that's causing people to suffer right now is the line. At least even with the Vietnam war games, the people who died in that conflict are already dead.

I haven't played Saints Row 4, but at least their whole world is ludicrous and they're only parodying things instead of simulating them (I'm on my own though in thinking that Saints Row 2 was way too brutal for the type of game it was being). The same goes for GTA, but I haven't played that either and would probably be a bit annoyed about the torture scene if I did.

It's such a messy and horrible conflict, anyone trying to do a serious work about it is at risk at simplifying a situation they can't really grasp. Making something fun and challenge-based around it with extra damage for headshots is in bad waters

 

[J Tyran]

I wouldn't be interested in a game featuring modern piracy for obvious reasons and I don't think any major publisher would like to be seen glorifying often quite horrific crimes against innocents.

I can see why you feel that way but is that the only line you draw? We have games that glorify war, torture, murder, theft, robbery, drug production & dealing and consumption, kidnapping and just about every nasty aspect of life. Games like Grand Theft Auto for instance or all of the MMS that turn mirrors of very nasty real life conflicts with heavy civilian casualties into

Then you have other games like Saints Row which make all of the above into a joke thats delivered with all the subtlety of a 4ft long purple dildo to the face, even Assassins Creed 4 itself glorifies a brutal and lawless period in history. Innocents where killed and tortured and communities where destroyed, Assassins Creed 3 dealt with some of the greatest crimes against humanity and turned slavery and ethnic cleansing into entertainment. I am not trying to call you out, I am genuinely curious why you draw the line with modern day piracy or to see if you avoid games that deal with dreadful real life actions and events altogether.

You make an interesting point. I had the same gut reaction that I would find Somalian piracy something that went way too far but you're examples are pretty reasonable. For example would I be so touchy about a game with a Sierra Leone warlord? There must be games out there which have them as a villain, but I think I would find that a bit tasteless too. One with them as a protagonist probably would be outrage worthy.

I think MMS' genuinely are a bit despicable, and that's with them dealing with very vague unspecific and fantastical conflicts in Fakistan or with Russian villains. ACIV has some of the benefit of history on it's side, I think the idea that somalian pirates are something that's causing people to suffer right now is the line. At least even with the Vietnam war games, the people who died in that conflict are already dead.

I haven't played Saints Row 4, but at least their whole world is ludicrous and they're only parodying things instead of simulating them (I'm on my own though in thinking that Saints Row 2 was way too brutal for the type of game it was being). The same goes for GTA, but I haven't played that either and would probably be a bit annoyed about the torture scene if I did.

It's such a messy and horrible conflict, anyone trying to do a serious work about it is at risk at simplifying a situation they can't really grasp. Making something fun and challenge-based around it with extra damage for headshots is in bad waters

One point that's worth mentioning is that depiction =/= glorification, it does sometimes and in some cases I agree but not always. The point when something goes to far all comes down to the individual, I think that anything could be a good subject or element in a game plot as long as its handled right. Even traditionally taboo subjects like sexual abuse and rape are possible in the right game, like in narrative focused titles in a similar style to Cart Life or Papers Please and covering a victims day to day struggle of picking up the shattered pieces of their life. It would be uncomfortable for most people and down right distressing for others (some people might be better off not playing it at all even, for obvious reasons), it could be compelling and insightful. New perspectives can help people further develop their sense of empathy and understanding.

When it comes down to games like Saints Row I feel the "parody" and "satire" excuse is wearing thin, with GTA there was a lot of argument whether it was satire or not but I don't think it matters because Saints Row in particular was turning murder into entertainment for the lowest common denominator. Now with GTA it plays it a bit straighter but with Saints Row 3 (not played 4 yet so can't comment) it went beyond parody and turned into making serious and unpleasant issues crude locker room level jokes, it was on the same level of Duke Nukems crass and crude "humour" like the infamous "you're fucked" scene.

With historical events like Assassins Creed 3 and 4 I feel there is no real difference for most players, whether a ships crewman was disemboweled with a Rapier in 1715 or by a Machete in 2015 the event is just as distant for most people playing the game. Somebody still died painfully, they still left family or friends behind. There are people all around the world that are directly affected by horrific things like that but whether a ships crewman was disemboweled by a Machete in 2015 or by a Rapier in 1715 such a depiction is still too close to be comfortable for those people. A game about modern piracy would have to be done right though, it could be interesting as well as entertaining. Seeing the various ways people end up becoming pirates, seeing their hopes and fears and experiencing the perverse thrill and excitement of such a dangerous lifestyle. Having a first person perspective of living hand to mouth in an impoverished community watching ships pass by carrying hundreds of millions of Dollars worth of goods to the more economically developed regions, then watching the lions share of goods they risked their life for and possibly killed for being taken away by the heavily organised international crime syndicates. Same goes for a game about a warlord in Sierra Leone, getting an interactive perspective about how people end up like that and the way they live would be compelling if done right.

Ubisoft are pretty good at making games on hard hitting themes, as much as they annoy me as a publisher I do have to give them that. It worked well in Assassins Creed and the Far Cry series although they do romanticizes that type of activity somewhat I don't feel it glorifies it and I think they could pull off a game about modern piracy.

Edit: Fixed some of my terrible grammar and spelling.

 

[Tanis]

So, basically, you want to play a Black Lagoon game...with the AC4 engine?

 

[BrotherRool]

When it comes down to games like Saints Row I feel the "parody" and "satire" excuse is wearing thin, with GTA there was a lot of argument whether it was satire or not but I don't think it matters because Saints Row in particular was turning murder into entertainment for the lowest common denominator. Now with GTA it plays it a bit straighter but with Saints Row 3 (not played 4 yet so can't comment) it went beyond parody and turned into making serious and unpleasant issues crude locker room level jokes, it was on the same level of Duke Nukems crass and crude "humour" like the infamous "you're fucked" scene.

If we're talking about the human trafficking stuff in Saints Row 3, I stopped playing the game about that point. I hope there aren't many people who defend it, and I think it was the reason why for more people who disliked SR3 than they knew.

With historical events like Assassins Creed 3 and 4 I feel there is no real difference for most players, whether a ships crewman was disemboweled with a Rapier in 1715 or by a Machete in 2015 the event is just as distant for most people playing the game. Somebody still died painfully, they still left family or friends behind. There are people all around the world that are directly affected by horrific things like that but whether a ships crewman was disemboweled by a Machete in 2015 or by a Rapier in 1715 such a depiction is still too close to be comfortable for those people.

I think this is why the more recent event is more horrible though, because to most people it would be exactly the same, yet the modern event should resonate more because this is something going on right now that we even have the potential to care about and stop but generally don't.

And even if in practical terms it doesn't happen, the idea that there are people in the world who could be told that there are humans on the other side of the atlantic treating the events that caused their daughter to kill herself exactly the same as events long in the past or entirely fantastical where no-one alive to get hurt by it anymore... that feels so First-World isolating and uncaring.

A game about modern piracy would have to be done right though, it could be interesting as well as entertaining. Seeing the various ways people end up becoming pirates, seeing their hopes and fears and experiencing the perverse thrill and excitement of such a dangerous lifestyle. Having a first person perspective of living hand to mouth in an impoverished community watching ships pass by carrying hundreds of millions of Dollars worth of goods to the more economically developed regions, then watching the lions share of goods they risked their life for and possibly killed for being taken away by the heavily organised international crime syndicates. Same goes for a game about a warlord in Sierra Leone, getting an interactive perspective about how people end up like that and the way they live would be compelling if done right.

Ubisoft are pretty good at making games on hard hitting themes, as much as they annoy me as a publisher I do have to give them that. It worked well in Assassins Creed and the Far Cry series although they do romanticizes that type of activity somewhat I don't feel it glorifies it and I think they could pull off a game about modern piracy.

Edit: Fixed some of my terrible grammar and spelling.

Don't worry about the spelling, I never noticed it. It's always what the words mean that's important.

I will grant you that I feel their is the potentiality for an interactive experience to meaningfully solve these problems, but where I differ is I don't believe there is a game yet made (including stuff like Spec Ops) that is sincere and honest enough to pull it off, and whats more I don't think the audience (and I include myself in this) is ready to receive it in a non-terrible way either. We've still been tottering around the idea that maybe games don't have to 'be fun' and I think we're still in a mindset where functionality is almost as important at anything else. If it's still possible that someones going to play a Sierra Leone warlord game and then say 'the shooting didn't feel very tight', then we're not ready for the game yet.

To put it another way, Far Cry 3 was a game with a lot of depth, but at the same time a good portion of the audience went away thinking of it as 'fun time shooting people' and completely missed some of it's messages. If people came away from a nasty real word simming game with those thoughts, then you would literally be causing some harm in the world. And at the moment I don't think the designers nor the audience could guarantee that more people would have their minds opened to the awfulness and reality of the conflict than people who wouldn't

Of course if you add layers of abstraction it becomes easier, so we're already in a position where I think some indie games can delve into these sort of conflicts. 2D card games/management games etc. But not a HD first-person shooter


I've been pretty strong in my disagreeing, but I hope it doesn't come off as personal, I'm finding this conversation interesting and you're putting forward some compelling arguments.