Assassins creed unity- another diversity post

[dumbseizure]

I'm gunna be honest.

Ubisoft didn't kick up the shit storm, thin skinned people did because Ubisoft didn't give them EXACTLY what they wanted.
Somehow, because the Co-op shows your customised version of Arno, they are excluding women.

They had a specific character in mind for the game, and you can customise how that character looks and what weapons he uses,so they decided "how about we let people show off their customised Arno in the co-op?".

But because this customisation doesn't include setting the Gender of the character they based the story around, or assigning them random female skin #2121 in the co-op, people are complaining?

I'm sorry, but its just completely ludicrous.

Wow... can't there be a single topic discussing equal representation in which those of us who want to see more games with our sex/gender aren't put down, or accused of being the root of the entire problem?

Thanks for using my lighthearted post to trash people like me. Much appreciated.

You serious?

If this was a thread ABOUT equal representation in games, sure go right ahead, talk all you like about.

But it isn't, this was a thread solely about why Ubisoft didn't put a female playable character into a game for the co-op, which has already been explained why, in cinematics you see your own variation of Ando, and even though it is co-op, the story of the game still revolves around the character Ando, thats the character they had in mind, and they don't want to compromise the story by having co-op characters be other people.

Oh yes, your light hearted post about Ubisoft kicking up a shitstorm over diversity for having a specific character in mind, with also just a hint, a soupcon, of heavy sarcasm.

 

[Something Amyss]

Wow... can't there be a single topic discussing equal representation in which those of us who want to see more games with our sex/gender aren't put down, or accused of being the root of the entire problem?

Meanwhile, the hot threads include like, 3 with people complaining about how they're going to flip tables over X game only running at 30 FPS.

 

[Vault101]

OH! Did Arno have multiple personality disorder?
.

now THAT would be a cool implementation of co-op

So tell me why wanting, even demanding diversity, is so crazy when the community standards aren't exactly high.
.

because people put in a lot of effort to say that they don't care and others shouldn't care

But it isn't, this was a thread solely about why Ubisoft didn't put a female playable character into a game for the co-op, which has already been explained why, in cinematics you see your own variation of Ando, and even though it is co-op, the story of the game still revolves around the character Ando, thats the character they had in mind, and they don't want to compromise the story by having co-op characters be other people.
.

you know you should work for Ubisofts PR because this is waaaaaay more belivable than the bullshit they tried to serve us

it still suvks and is indicative of some larger issues but you know...its less of a slap in the face

and no I'm not joking

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

You serious?

If this was a thread ABOUT equal representation in games, sure go right ahead, talk all you like about.

But it isn't, this was a thread solely about why Ubisoft didn't put a female playable character into a game for the co-op, which has already been explained why, in cinematics you see your own variation of Ando, and even though it is co-op, the story of the game still revolves around the character Ando, thats the character they had in mind, and they don't want to compromise the story by having co-op characters be other people.

Oh yes, your light hearted post about Ubisoft kicking up a shitstorm over diversity for having a specific character in mind, with also just a hint, a soupcon, of heavy sarcasm.

Keep trashing me if it makes you feel better.

My post was about the game, and what you said in response is exactly in line with what we idealists get when we hope for parity of the sexes in anything gaming-related, be it this particular game or games in general. And for the record, my post was an example of how I jokingly theorize about things that make no sense. I do that all the time in real life. It's how I exercise my creativity.

OT - I ask again, how should we diagnose Arno's fractured personalities? I'm failing to wrap my brain around it.

 

[Darkmantle]

This thread should have ended at post three.

I'm not going ot pretend to be an expert, but I consider myself an amateur developer, I have a working knowledge of the workflow and co-designed/assisted on several small modding projects. I'm not the best, I dare say I'm not even "good", I'm just saying I have experience and an understanding of what's required.

That said, in 48 hours, and dealing with models as detailed as the newest assassin's creed games, I would be very impressed to have one completed and textured in that time frame. To give some perspective, Ezio, just the one character, had 5 modelers start to finish. I would expect Arzo here is in a similar workflow.

And let me assure you, modeled and textured is not remotely finished, especially not for a character you wish to have as a protagonist. They name checked most of them in the article, like animation, but I don't think most people here know what those processes actually entail. In modern triple A games, animation includes getting motion capture data to use as a base for your animations. So in order for them to add a female protagonist, they would need to hire an mo-cap actress (not to mention tie up their expensive mo-cap studio) and have her do everything that the character is going to do in game. Those animations then have to be imported onto a custom built skeleton of the model (a "rig") and then edited and smoothed to work in the game engine. The animation section could not be done in the same 48 hours as the modeling, as you need the model first to create the rig, and you need the rig to "mill" the mo-cap data into a usable state. If you attempt to create the rig without the completed model,it will not function. Believe me, I've made this error myself, several times.

That's not to mention the voice acting that would have to be re-done. Not just on the part of the new female voice actress. Any line that was recorded with a gendered word in it would have to be rerecorded to match the new gender of the protagonist. That would get expensive fast, especially considering the sheer amount of dialog a protagonist character generally has. Y

In short, 48 hours is all it would take to create a model, but to put a character in a game takes far longer.

And on to another point, to save time, the co-op characters are just copy pasted arzo clones, with a little bit of technical wizardry. From what I read, when you look at your co-op partners, the game just slaps a random male face on it, one that already had to be modeled for other characters. but on your screen, you always appear as arzo. So to have those female characters in co-op, you would have to go through the whole process described above, there is no shortcuts to putting in a protagonist.



That concludes the more technical part of the post now for the ranty part.




And even if the devs went through ALL that, most people would still not be satisfied, they would still make a stink about it. Look in this very thread, there are people who are bitching about femshep just being a different modeled maleshep. All of that process I discussed above would ONLY get you the same thing, a female arzo.If you wanted a truly unique experience based on the gender you chose for your protagonist, you could triple that workload, easily.

Quite frankly, were I the developer, I wouldn't bother, some people are just going to complain. I think ubisoft made a huge misstep in even responding to this "controversy" it only gave it a legitimacy it did not deserve. The worst part is though, their response was legitimate. The problem is that most people have no idea how much work these things are, so they'll say shit like "well why can't you just PUT a female model in there". Let me assure you, you can't "just put" a new protagonist in the damn game. Let me assure you, I wish it were that easy.

Hell even if they were determined to respone, they should have been more diplomatic, that should have been clearer, being too blunt about the issue seems to get too many people's knickers in a twist.

 

[Vault101]

Look in this very thread, there are people who are bitching about femshep just being a different modeled maleshep.

excuse me?

did you read what I said or do you just interperet anything from one side of this whole mess as "bitching" please....read it again


[quote/]game stuff.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is expecting them to do it half and half mass effect style, I think the issue here is that they saw those "co-op" charachters as mute Avatars....when it comes to that kind of thingd having a female option should really be the deault

now obviously the reasons have been stated...and you know I could actually get behind them..but being told "its too hard" well thats just a big slap in the face...like were a god damn charity case that will only ever get rerpesentation via the good hardwork and charity of a developer...

as I said, their bullshiting is worse than the initial problem

 

[bug_of_war]

I thought they all saw themselves as their Arno, hence all the character customization that Ubisoft was whining over adding for women among other things?
Heck, if you end up seeing pre-set characters as co-op characters, then, IMO, Ubisoft has even less excuse to exclude them as we can just pick a female preset as a preference, and just go.
Thing is, though, in single player you HAVE to be a guy. From my understanding, you could've been a woman, but nope! Ubisoft had to be lazy. Or just scared. They said they're dodging any lead that isn't straight, too. On an off note, that makes me feel a bit like a 3rd class citizen to them.
You wanna talk immersion? Being blank slate dude breaks my immersion. The game had better be something fantastic for me to take my mind off that. Assassin's Creed isn't that amazing, frankly. It doesn't help Ubisoft went from being a new favorite company of mine to near full repulsive in just a few months.

That's a very fair point, however it still doesn't address having to remodel the body and animations itself and how dynamic the clothes would act on said body. If you watch AC multiplayer the animations of the bodies and clothing are quite average, nothing that special. They could be better with more work done but this is a yearly franchise (for better or worse) and thus once they get a certain distance into making the game they will have to drop some ideas.
To address the lead character always being male, yeah they don't have to be, and yeah it'd be nice for some people to have a female protagonist, no arguments there. As for their sexuality though...they are ancestors of people, which means they kinda have to be straight, otherwise they wont have descendants...

The franchise itself isn't amazing, I agree, but it's still pretty interesting. Also, how do you know the protagonist of this game is going to be a blank slate? It's had 1 teaser trailer and one game play segment that was used more to show off the new features.

The fact that there were women doing fighting, and what not is the perfect excuse to allow gender select. Just because they were the minority shouldn't mean anything. If it did mean something, then women will NEVER see much representation because they're locked in a never ending game of catch up since they'll never likely be the majority of combatants.
This is why I really like Koei. They give a crap enough about representation to take some liberties with history while at least trying to remain somewhat true to the flow of historical events.

Considering Arno is going to be customizable, IIRC, odds are you CAN have a black Arno, or prolly any other ethnicity.

Just because Ubisoft had some variety in the past, it doesn't excuse the present. They don't get a free pass to say "Awww, close but no cigar! No gender select for you, after all!"
Seriously, being progressive, to me, is like drinking from a straw. When you stop, when you quit trying, the drink in the straw doesn't just stay where it is, it goes back down. Ubisoft's dropping the ball, here.

I agreed with you that women fought in the French Revolution, what I said though was that it doesn't mean a small band of Assassin's made up of all men is wrong or misrepresenting in any way. As for Arno being black...WHAT!? When was that stated? As far as I'm aware their idea of customization is different costumes and pallet swaps. No AC game has ever had a character whose race/gender was changeable, so it seems unfair of you to make that claim (unless of course they specifically said that his skin tone could be changed, then colour me wrong).

But there's always a third option with the straw. If you stop sucking but keep your mouth enclosed around the top of the straw/put your finger on top the drink will stay put. Ubisoft's Assassin's dev team have done a great job at being pretty diverse with their characters and I find it unfair to jump on them right now. How many games before hand had you playing as an Arab? Or a Native American? Or an African? In my eyes they've done quite a fair bit to deserve some leeway right now.

 

[Darkmantle]

Look in this very thread, there are people who are bitching about femshep just being a different modeled maleshep.

excuse me?

did you read what I said or do you just interperet anything from one side of this whole mess as "bitching" please....read it again


[quote/]game stuff.

I don't think anyone is expecting them to do it half and half mass effect style, I think the issue here is that they saw those "co-op" charachters as mute Avatars....when it comes to that kind of thingd having a female option should really be the deault

now obviously the reasons have been stated...and you know I could actually get behind them..but being told "its too hard" well thats just a big slap in the face...like were a god damn charity case that will only ever get rerpesentation via the good hardwork and charity of a developer...

as I said, their bullshiting is worse than the initial problem[/quote]

"femshep is just kinda there" is not normally something that carries with it positive connotations. Neither is "taking what you can get". It seems to imply you wouldn't like her if you could get something better, and that is definitely a sentiment I have heard echoed quite frequently (especially around the time of the ME3 ending disaster.)

Now as I said, Ubisoft either should have not said a damn thing, or worded it better. Technically it is too hard, they just needed to finish the sentence. It's too hard to drop in a second select-able protagonist at this stage in the game. Same reason there is only one dude really, if they made a second dude, there would be almost as much extra work that would have to be done, and game creation is on a very tight schedule and budget at this level.

Now, as much as you might be surprised by this, I'd like to see more female characters and protagonists in games. But people taking this much issue with this case in particular, for these reasons? This is a silly controversy that doesn't even really address the issue. If the idea was that people think an assassins creed game should be designed with a female protagonist, sure, valid cause, valid request, but that's not what people are asking here.

 

[King Billi]

Just because Ubisoft had some variety in the past also does not mean that they are obligated to provide it to you now.

I don't think anyone's actually said they are obligated to do anything.

Doesn't mean people can't criticise a commercial product for not doing something. And that's what people, far as I see, are doing. They dislike it. They are disappointed. They are annoyed. And just as Ubisoft has no obligation to make a female character, consumers have no obligation to be okay with or quiet about that choice.

I would hope that anyone voicing their criticism would at least have some valid reasoning behind it apart from "It's just not what I personally would have liked."

Honestly though I'm getting the impression that alot of the criticism here is due to a misunderstanding of what the coop and customisation in this game will actually entail.

 

[Vault101]

"femshep is just kinda there" is not normally something that carries with it positive connotations. Neither is "taking what you can get". It seems to imply you wouldn't like her if you could get something better, and that is definitely a sentiment I have heard echoed quite frequently (especially around the time of the ME3 ending disaster.)
.

....that?

...thats "bitching" oh I'm sorry, perhaps I should criticize the Balance in an RPG or the 30fps lock in another game or the DRM in another...that wouldn't be bitching would it?

[i/]thank you ever so much videogame masters....I do apreciate the great effort and charity it is to recognise the fact that feeeemales exist....and that they are able to wear cloths unlike our Ferengi sisters...thank you ever so much and while I dare not say a thing that could be considered insubordinate...please sir?...may I have some more?[/i]

actually no, do you want to hear some "actual Bitching" well I hate the word "Bitchting" its just a few rungs under "buthurt" of the "bullshit people say" ladder.....an example of societys disdain and deamonazation of the "feminine" "bitching" its not having a valid issue...no its inane illogical pointless yammering done by feeeeemales for no aparent reason

ok "bitching" over

in regards to Femshep....seriously? am I not allowed to say anything? I was being HONEST for fucks sake, if you read correctly I LIKE femshep [footnote/]even if I didn't....because I don't HAVE to be "satisfied" with every pathtic bone the good and charitable game people throw at me[/footnote], but she hasn't much of a definded personality, thats because shes more or less a projection charachter...which is fine because mass effect gives you options, so would I change mass effect?...well...yes not not THAT in particular....[sub/]well mabye I would give her a few more quirks but thats just me[/sub]

in fact my point was that I didn't care, I didn't care that they didn't animate her any differently, it looks a bit odd in some cases but ultimatly its just a part of her charachter

ultimatly Femsheps existance does not mean we can all wash our hands of the issue and say "yep! were done!" nether does having one non optional female protagonist in a game that was relgated to a struggling handheld mean the Assasincs Creed is making an actual effort in regards to inclusivity (hint:it isn't)

I'm honestly at a loss for words...like if I said ANYTHING a tiny bit critical that would be "Bitching" acording to you

fuck it...what do they say? women should be seen and not heard?

 

[Vault101]

I would hope that anyone voicing their criticism would at least have some valid reasoning behind it apart from "It's just not what I personally would have liked."

mabye if people actually read what people had to say instead of....reacting to it although:

[quote/]Honestly though I'm getting the impression that alot of the criticism here is due to a misunderstanding of what the coop and customisation in this game will actually entail.[/quote]

that....might actually be true to some extent

 

[mecegirl]

I'm gunna be honest.

Ubisoft didn't kick up the shit storm, thin skinned people did because Ubisoft didn't give them EXACTLY what they wanted.
Somehow, because the Co-op shows your customised version of Arno, they are excluding women.

They had a specific character in mind for the game, and you can customise how that character looks and what weapons he uses,so they decided "how about we let people show off their customised Arno in the co-op?".

But because this customisation doesn't include setting the Gender of the character they based the story around, or assigning them random female skin #2121 in the co-op, people are complaining?

I'm sorry, but its just completely ludicrous.

Wow... can't there be a single topic discussing equal representation in which those of us who want to see more games with our sex/gender aren't put down, or accused of being the root of the entire problem?

Thanks for using my lighthearted post to trash people like me. Much appreciated.

You serious?

If this was a thread ABOUT equal representation in games, sure go right ahead, talk all you like about.

But it isn't, this was a thread solely about why Ubisoft didn't put a female playable character into a game for the co-op, which has already been explained why, in cinematics you see your own variation of Ando, and even though it is co-op, the story of the game still revolves around the character Ando, thats the character they had in mind, and they don't want to compromise the story by having co-op characters be other people.

Oh yes, your light hearted post about Ubisoft kicking up a shitstorm over diversity for having a specific character in mind, with also just a hint, a soupcon, of heavy sarcasm.

Yes Ten Foot Bunny is serious. Your original response to Ten Foot Bunny was needlessly combative. So was your second.

The only logical explanation is that the choice to not create other assassins is about letting players play with their customized Arno. The plot/story doesn't factor into that choice at all. So using the story as a justification for not having a female chracter is stupid. Have you seen the trailer and the co-op footage? What TFB is joking around about is exactally what that footage looks like. What TFB suggested is pretty much the only way having four Arnos is possible and have some consistency with the plot. Otherwise it would be impossible for four of the same man to be running around period, let alone helping each other on a mission.

People started complaining because it looks like a game where four individuals work together to accomplish a goal. Ubisoft is pushing this image of four dudes in the Assassins cloak. And it is giving the wrong impression of what the game, specifically the co-op mode, is about. Because if it is supposed to be four different people then why not include some diversity? They would do better to not push their co-op mode so much because it's not like they are doing anything ground breaking by just having everybody use the same chracter. Its unnecessary to show four dudes on the cover of their game since it is just one dude in the story.

People are continuing to complain because instead of standing by their product Ubisoft is giving lazy excuses. They should just say that they didn't want to create any other assassins(male or female, Black or White, ectera, ectera) because they wanted players to play with their own customized Arno's. As a pretty successful company saying that it would take too much time or money is laughable. They have the resources to create whatever they want, and thus should stand by their creations instead of making excuses.

 

[mecegirl]

Consistency with the plot?

I don't think anyone here has any fucking clue what the co-op of old used to be like. Player 1 is Masterchief. Player 2 is Mastercheif 2 with a different color. It does not need consistency with the plot because they aren't building a co-op campaign. They're adding co-op to the singleplayer campaign. It does not need a story revolving around 4 Arnos, or split personality. It does not need any logical reasoning behind it because it's doing exactly what it's set out to do. Your Arno will show up in the cutscenes and during missions you will be playing with others for the sole purpose of enjoying the game with friends.

Can you read? That's part of what I'm saying. There is no constancy with the plot,so using constancy with the plot as the reason why there couldn't be a female co-op player is stupid. But that is what people have been doing, and that is why Ten Foot Bunny made the post she did. Because if consistency with the plot makes a female chracter impossible is sure as hell makes four clones impossible. It's mocking the whole consistency with the plot idea.

This entire "shitstorm" over this is simply and utterly pathetic. After finally getting it through peoples heads that it is the exact same guy, not 4 the complaint immediately shifted to "well why wasn't he female in the first place?"

The answer is quite simple. It's the developers story and they can tell it however they fucking please, it's theirs, NOT YOURS.

Is this going to be the norm now? If a game is announced and the main character dare have a penis the developers must face this pathetic shitstorm?

Consumers are free to criticize whatever they want. Go rant on a thread about people complaing over dlc or pre order bonuses or something. Oh wait...you won't because you don't care about that. You only care when gender is involved.

And yes this just might be the norm. Welcome to not being the overwhelming majority of gamers. Different people have different priorities.

 

[Gankytim]

Play as a male character, then take that same character into another players world Dark Souls Invasion style, then you expect a sex change during the loading screen? I'm pretty sure sex changes weren't a thing in Revoloutionary France.

Look, diversity is all fine and all, in fact a wider array of character bases is the best thing in stories. But it's literally ONE CHARACTER, this is not something that needs to be defended and justified. But that being said, women did have a fairly large part to play in the French Revoloution if my understanding of history is correct so it wouldn't be a horrible stretch of imagination to have a female protagonist rather than Arno. There's two equally valid sides to this argument.

And to further adress your point OP, you say that they have a fem NPC beheaded, but haven't shown one wrecking shit and dropping bombs. AC has been fairly representative of women in the past, Ubisoft has a running history in recent games of having ass kicking female characters, who says Unity will be any different?

Now I'm gonna go vomit because I hate myself for defending Ubisoft of all companies.

 

[mecegirl]

You missed the point still. If having one of the four players female would ruin the consistency because you're still supposed to be seeing Arno. Not random assassin who happens to have tits. It's precisely why having 4 clones make perfect sense. Because you're supposed to be seeing your version of Arno during cutscenes.

Pre order bonuses and DLC have some warrant (I don't complain about it. I work enough to be able to afford what I want) but this complaint is mind boggling stupid I sincerely hope Ubisoft just ignores it. People are critsicing it for having a male lead instead of a female...so the fuck what? It's their story they are telling. Not yours. They shouldn't be condemned for making a game with a male lead, especially when every other game in the series has.

Would a female lead for AC make sense and be welcome? Yes it would. That isn't the issue here. The issue is that this game is being slammed for being sexist solely because they want a female character instead. What's even more stupid is that this has been well known for months. The first image that was leaked was of a male assassin. Yet because people can't be arsed enough to actually look up that the co-op is the exact same character but multiplied people created this shitstorm over nothing. Now you're all desperately trying to find something else to ***** about because reasons. And this is exactly what this shitstorm is, bitching because you didn't have your way.

It's their game, not yours. Don't like it or the fact that you play as a character who has a penis? Don't play it, don't buy it.

You are making the assumption that you even need to make a point. That doesn't explain why you can still see the three other Arnos. Did you watch the co-op footage? The other Arno's are clearly visible. That does not explain why in the trailer it looks like four men running around even though it is supposed to be just Arno. It's dumb to advertize the game in that way when everyone will be just using the same chracter. The plot involves a single man assassinating people, not a team. The playing as a team is just supposed to be a fun bonus. The reason why they are all Arno's is because the creators want players to have the chance to use their customized Arno in co-op play and that's it.

You haven't been paying attention. Go find me quote where anyone is calling the game sexist for having a male protagonist. They were being criticized for being lazy. At first people were under the impression that there were four separate characters. So the game was being criticized for creating four separate characters where the only difference were their goatees and cloak color. And if you'd take the time to look at the promotional images that is exactally what it looks like. Four dudes of the same race, with the same build, but with different facial hair and cloaks. People brought up female characters because creating one would be an easy visual difference for the co-op mode. And people have been responding to the idea of a female character saying that it would break immersion, be inconsistent with the plot, or be historically inaccurate.So that is where the talk of a female chracter is coming from. People are talking about the possibility of a female co-op partner or protagonist in light of actual history supporting woman's pivotal roles in the French Revolution. So stop blowing shit out of proportion.

Ubisoft is also being criticized for their lame ass excuse for not having a female chracter being that it would take too much time. As I said before, they would have done better to just say that they only wanted Arno playable.


No one needs you to tell them what to buy or not to buy. You do not have any authority over other human beings. You can not expect them to not voice their opinions. You will just have to either come up with a proper response or deal. Different people have different priorities. You not thinking it's important hasn't stopped complaints yet. So keep on complaining about the complainers. It won't get you anywhere.

 

[Vault101]

Fuck it, I guess you think women shouldn't be seen OR heard you misogynist fuck! Now that's how you strawman a guy. Really, where's the passion? You can misrepresent me so much more effectively if you just throw in some nasty adjectives that imply I'm a bigot. I expected more really.

ok my last comment was more out of frustration than anything...I knew thats not what you really meant, but I'm still baffled as to your complete misuse of the word "bitching"

[quote/]And oh, you like femshep do you? It sure as fuck doesn't sound like it.[/quote]
then you need to read what I said again

[quote/]If someone came up to me and said "hey, did you like SC2 HotS?" and my response was "it's just kinda there, I'll take what I can get" do you think that would come off like I really like it? Regardless of whatever lip-service I pay it afterwards. [/quote]
its called context

might I also point out you can actually enjoy/like something while recognising its flaws...I like Metro 2033 but how it handles women is.....not that great, and you know if someone was bothered by that to the point where they couldn't play the game I would understand.

[quote/]And hey, do you want to know what big, slow to change corporations do with new ideas?[/quote]
its a sad state of affairs where a female protagonist is considered a "new idea"...I'm not directing that at you I'm just saying

[quote/]relegate them to lower budget departments. And now do you think Ubisoft is going to want to try a full assassin's creed main release female protagonist if you bash the fuck out of the small scale attempt? Let me spell it out for you, fuck no. [/quote]
did I bash the fuck out of Liberation? no I don't think so, I meant that just because liberation exists does not mean that all issues with Assassin's creed lack of diversity are solved....far from it, the fact they relegated her to a struggling handheld, what does that say about what they think? female protagonists aren't good enough for the big boys? now of coarse I'm glad liberation exists and I comend them..but I'm not "gratful" cause thats bullshit

[quote/]and thanks for putting words in my mouth about that by the way, appreciate it. It's about understanding the reality of the situation. This is new territory for the gaming industry, and it's dipping a toe in the pool,[/quote]
really? you know I feel like we've gone backwards in recent years...at least back then we had like...Perfect Dark? again sad state of affairs and I'm actually pretty annyed when its treated like a big deal when it shouldn't be

[quote/]This is not a case of developers needing coddling[/quote]
really? beause....


[quote/]and let me tell ya, if you roar at it every time it starts to put it's foot in, it sure as fuck isn't going to learn to swim anytime soon. In other words, you have to know when to use the stick, and when to use the carrot, right now, reading your reply to me here, it's looking to me like you're all stick.[/quote]
thats what this sounds like.... and you know as much as I would love the idea of Ubisoft listening to me personally..I don't think thats the case...

if they can't tell the difference between legitimate criticism and pointless rage then thats their problem

[quote/]No one said you don't get to express your opinion, no one said you have to kiss the developers ass and beg on your knees to them.[/quote]
I say one thing about Femshep which you took out of context and you called it bitching because I wasn't thanking Bioware...

[quote/]This is not an all or nothing proposal. Me suggesting that this issue is not worthy of this amount of venom [/quote]

not the issue no

[b/]but the response[/b] THAT is worse than the issue....being told its "too hard" to do female characters in this way is condescending and frustrating and quite frankly I'm glad! lazyness is not an excuse...if it didn't fit in with what the co-op was suposed to be then fine..but laziness is just a slap in the face

 

[Genocidicles]

Here's what I don't understand: why aren't people saying that a game session with up to four Arnos would look silly, but they are saying that having a woman as a co-op character choice would be immersion-breaking since Arno is the game's protagonist? Where are the other Arnos coming from anyway? Were more modern people placed into the Animus, and if so, why do those people also have to be Arno and not one of Arno's assassin peers? How could Arno have been doing multiple things at the same time, and how did all those extra versions of himself get into his memory?

OH! Did Arno have multiple personality disorder?

I'm sure we'll learn more about this in time, but it doesn't make any sense at the moment and it doesn't do anything to quell the shitstorm that Ubisoft kicked up this week.

The co op is like Watchdogs' multiplayer.

Each player sees their character as Arno, and the other players as just generic assassin mooks.

 

[Gankytim]

[b/]but the response[/b] THAT is worse than the issue....being told its "too hard" to do female characters in this way is condescending and frustrating and quite frankly I'm glad! lazyness is not an excuse...if it didn't fit in with what the co-op was suposed to be then fine..but laziness is just a slap in the face

It's a fun bonus, you get to show off your customized avatar of the MAIN CHARACTER, ARNO in co-op. It's not problematic, it's not "lazy".

Maybe when I play Crusader Kings II, sometimes I want to play as the owner of a barony rather than playing as someone who owns a wide stretch of land. Is Paradox lazy for not including that content? Maybe I want to play as the Pope. Is Paradox lazy for not letting me play as the Papacy?

In Dwarf Fortress maybe I want my fort to be made by Elves or Kobolds or Spider People or Dragons, They're ALL in the game, but I can't play as them in Fortress mode. And I have to edit the game to be able to play as anything other than A Human, Elf or Dwarf in Adventure mode. Is that all lazy?

This is something that [b/]should not need defending.[/b]