astral projection.

[BrassButtons]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.

I hate to be the eternal sceptic, but that sounds suspiciously like a Wake Induced Lucid Dream [http://lucid.wikia.com/wiki/Wake_Initiated_Lucid_Dream].

the two work on similar logic, i know it's weird, i think it's weird. but that's how it is i'm afraid.

How do you know that you're not just experiencing a lucid dream? What tests have you run?

 

[Generalissimo]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.

I hate to be the eternal sceptic, but that sounds suspiciously like a Wake Induced Lucid Dream [http://lucid.wikia.com/wiki/Wake_Initiated_Lucid_Dream].

the two work on similar logic, i know it's weird, i think it's weird. but that's how it is i'm afraid.

How do you know that you're not just experiencing a lucid dream? What tests have you run?

using the standard "that wasn't there before!" test, i determined it wasn't a lucid dream.

 

[BrassButtons]

using the standard "that wasn't there before!" test, i determined it wasn't a lucid dream.

I'm not sure what this means, so I can't comment on if it's actually a valid test or not.

 

[Daverson]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting. An obvious candidate would be the local sewage system, as I doubt anyone here has ever paid a visit to the network of tunnels that prevent cities and whatnot from being huge mounds of poop. (I'd say sh*t, and be all edgy, but honestly, poop is just a much funnier word!). You'd have to map out a small portion, draw it down, don't forget to repeat your experiment, for scientific reasons! Once you've got a nice map of the sewer system from your astral projections, you can compare it to a map of the sewer (which you've never actually seen before) and see if it's right.

If the actual map has little in common with your projected map, congratulations, publish your work and you've got yourself scientific validation. Get it in a journal and whenever someone says "OMG astral projection is just nonsense" you can say "well, actually if you read the article in Respected Scientific Journal, you'll see that's not the case". If it's wildly off, then you've proved that you aren't doing astral projection, which is a minor victory on your behalf, I guess.

 

[BrassButtons]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting.

That's like saying the only way to prove you can juggle is by doing it with chainsaws.

Here's on possible test:

First, the person who wishes to astral project puts a blindfold on. THis is to remove the chance of them simply cheating (though if the person claims to be able to project into other rooms, the helper could set up everything in another room). The helper then overturns a few cards. When the person projecting 'wakes up' they list what cards they think were shown.

By making a record of hits and misses, the accuracy of the guesses could be compared to random chance. If the person doesn't guess any better than random chance, it means they aren't actually projecting. IF the guesses are better than chance, it means there may indeed be something going on. Then better tests can be devised to try and rule out other possible factors that could lead to false-positives.

 

[him over there]

believing in things that aren't just supernatural, but outright insane.

Er...wouldn't believing in anything that is supernatural be about as wrong and worthy of the term "delusion" (which is what I think you mean by "insane") as believing in anything else supernatural?

The term believing in itself means to purposely perceive false or unproven things as true. So It probably would. As for astral projections? prove it and I will agree with you. If not its the same as psychics and readings etc. Not real, just duplicate it in a laboratory setting. Plus there is no such thing as a spirit and even if there was then you would only be able to internally think as one. Since you have no nerves to process information, and that is whimsical on its own because it implies you can think without a brain

 

[Robert632]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.

Can anyone do this? Alright, im biting, ill give this a try. Does the word or sound matter? Id pick project i guess, to focus? Can i go anywhere from floating around? Could i win this prize with this? Can i definitively prove i can see things? For example with my eyes closed and blindfolded, could i read something written on a note on my body? How long can i project for? Does time pass? How long do i need to do this for?

I WILL try this. Honestly. Does it take practice or can i do this first go?

to answer your questions:
1. it doesn't matter, but preferably simple.
2. you can't go too far, otherwise the link to your body will be severed, making it an open target for other spirits to hijack.
3. you can (to a limited extent) manipulate physical objects.
4. your astral form is unbound by your physical form, so a blindfold shouldn't hinder your astral self.
5. you reading skill is unchanged
6. only at night, when you see the sun coming up, get back to your body double time.
7. time does pass.
8. not everyone gets it first time, so be patient with it.

Out of curiosity, what happens if your out of your body during the daytime?

 

[Generalissimo]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.

Can anyone do this? Alright, im biting, ill give this a try. Does the word or sound matter? Id pick project i guess, to focus? Can i go anywhere from floating around? Could i win this prize with this? Can i definitively prove i can see things? For example with my eyes closed and blindfolded, could i read something written on a note on my body? How long can i project for? Does time pass? How long do i need to do this for?

I WILL try this. Honestly. Does it take practice or can i do this first go?

to answer your questions:
1. it doesn't matter, but preferably simple.
2. you can't go too far, otherwise the link to your body will be severed, making it an open target for other spirits to hijack.
3. you can (to a limited extent) manipulate physical objects.
4. your astral form is unbound by your physical form, so a blindfold shouldn't hinder your astral self.
5. you reading skill is unchanged
6. only at night, when you see the sun coming up, get back to your body double time.
7. time does pass.
8. not everyone gets it first time, so be patient with it.

Out of curiosity, what happens if your out of your body during the daytime?

you die.
sounds harsh, but it has been known to happen.

 

[Maze1125]

i can provide a step by step of how to AP,

it is NOT a lucid dream.
it is NOT self hypnosis.
it is NOT a lie.

Fantastic! What are the steps?

lie down in a bed, or sit in a chair, but you must be comfortable, start repeating a word or sound constantly in your head, until you no longer need effort to keep repeating that thought. (this can be a bit tricky) you will after a short while feel a slight sinking feeling, and then your body going stiff and unmoveable, do not resist this. once paralysis is complete, ensure the thought or sound is still looping. you should start to feel a tingling sensation, when it gets to the point of being spread throught your body. it's time to leave. know (don't visualise, just know that it is there) there is a rope hanging above you, with your mind, grasp the rope and pull your self hand over hand out of your body. get up and open your eyes, if you have done it right, you can look at your unconcius whilst being in astral form. to re-enter your body, simply go into contact with it, and you will wake up in physical form.

I hate to be the eternal sceptic, but that sounds suspiciously like a Wake Induced Lucid Dream [http://lucid.wikia.com/wiki/Wake_Initiated_Lucid_Dream].

the two work on similar logic, i know it's weird, i think it's weird. but that's how it is i'm afraid.

Okay, so take the challenge posted earlier in the thread. Prove you're doing one you say you are and not the other.
There's a $1,000,000 in it for you. Why on Earth wouldn't you do it?

 

[Daverson]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting.

That's like saying the only way to prove you can juggle is by doing it with chainsaws.

Here's on possible test:

First, the person who wishes to astral project puts a blindfold on. THis is to remove the chance of them simply cheating (though if the person claims to be able to project into other rooms, the helper could set up everything in another room). The helper then overturns a few cards. When the person projecting 'wakes up' they list what cards they think were shown.

By making a record of hits and misses, the accuracy of the guesses could be compared to random chance. If the person doesn't guess any better than random chance, it means they aren't actually projecting. IF the guesses are better than chance, it means there may indeed be something going on. Then better tests can be devised to try and rule out other possible factors that could lead to false-positives.

I guess. It was just an example off the top of my head, tbh.

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics, could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream. Of course you could say that of wandering around somewhere you've never been in an astral projection (obviously there are people who know what the sewers are like!), you'd really need to have a good think to come up with a reliable experiment to prove or disprove this sort of thing... I'll admit I don't know much about what astral projection may or may not be, so I won't comment on what this experiment might entail.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting.

That's like saying the only way to prove you can juggle is by doing it with chainsaws.

Here's on possible test:

First, the person who wishes to astral project puts a blindfold on. THis is to remove the chance of them simply cheating (though if the person claims to be able to project into other rooms, the helper could set up everything in another room). The helper then overturns a few cards. When the person projecting 'wakes up' they list what cards they think were shown.

By making a record of hits and misses, the accuracy of the guesses could be compared to random chance. If the person doesn't guess any better than random chance, it means they aren't actually projecting. IF the guesses are better than chance, it means there may indeed be something going on. Then better tests can be devised to try and rule out other possible factors that could lead to false-positives.

I guess. It was just an example off the top of my head, tbh.

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics, could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream. Of course you could say that of wandering around somewhere you've never been in an astral projection (obviously there are people who know what the sewers are like!), you'd really need to have a good think to come up with a reliable experiment to prove or disprove this sort of thing... I'll admit I don't know much about what astral projection may or may not be, so I won't comment on what this experiment might entail.

i thought of a test that completely removes the human element. in the next room, have a computer set up. right click the spider solitaire shortcut and hover your mouse over the Open option. then, set up one of those water drinking bird things over the mouse. eventually, the bird will click the mouse, opening up a screen of spider solitaire that nobody has seen yet. the projector then AP's into the room and remembers the cards in order. then after they return and "wake up" the observer and the AP'er both look at the screen, and see how it compares.

 

[Daverson]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting.

That's like saying the only way to prove you can juggle is by doing it with chainsaws.

Here's on possible test:

First, the person who wishes to astral project puts a blindfold on. THis is to remove the chance of them simply cheating (though if the person claims to be able to project into other rooms, the helper could set up everything in another room). The helper then overturns a few cards. When the person projecting 'wakes up' they list what cards they think were shown.

By making a record of hits and misses, the accuracy of the guesses could be compared to random chance. If the person doesn't guess any better than random chance, it means they aren't actually projecting. IF the guesses are better than chance, it means there may indeed be something going on. Then better tests can be devised to try and rule out other possible factors that could lead to false-positives.

I guess. It was just an example off the top of my head, tbh.

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics, could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream. Of course you could say that of wandering around somewhere you've never been in an astral projection (obviously there are people who know what the sewers are like!), you'd really need to have a good think to come up with a reliable experiment to prove or disprove this sort of thing... I'll admit I don't know much about what astral projection may or may not be, so I won't comment on what this experiment might entail.

i thought of a test that completely removes the human element. in the next room, have a computer set up. right click the spider solitaire shortcut and hover your mouse over the Open option. then, set up one of those water drinking bird things over the mouse. eventually, the bird will click the mouse, opening up a screen of spider solitaire that nobody has seen yet. the projector then AP's into the room and remembers the cards in order. then after they return and "wake up" the observer and the AP'er both look at the screen, and see how it compares.

What if they're a technopath, though?

Maybe combine several experiments? It wouldn't remove the possibility of another effect, but it would minimize it.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Sorry I'm late coming to this discussion:


Everyone watch this. It explains what I think perfectly.

 

[BrassButtons]

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream.

At that point the test will have shown that there is something to investigate. If the helper claims psionics, another test can be devised to see if psionics are real. If they are, more testing is needed to tell if the first test was psionics or astral projection.

But step one is to see if there's even something to investigate.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

double posts are the works of brain slugs.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

Presumably, the only way to be certain would be to visit somewhere you've never been before in real life, while astral projecting.

That's like saying the only way to prove you can juggle is by doing it with chainsaws.

Here's on possible test:

First, the person who wishes to astral project puts a blindfold on. THis is to remove the chance of them simply cheating (though if the person claims to be able to project into other rooms, the helper could set up everything in another room). The helper then overturns a few cards. When the person projecting 'wakes up' they list what cards they think were shown.

By making a record of hits and misses, the accuracy of the guesses could be compared to random chance. If the person doesn't guess any better than random chance, it means they aren't actually projecting. IF the guesses are better than chance, it means there may indeed be something going on. Then better tests can be devised to try and rule out other possible factors that could lead to false-positives.

I guess. It was just an example off the top of my head, tbh.

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics, could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream. Of course you could say that of wandering around somewhere you've never been in an astral projection (obviously there are people who know what the sewers are like!), you'd really need to have a good think to come up with a reliable experiment to prove or disprove this sort of thing... I'll admit I don't know much about what astral projection may or may not be, so I won't comment on what this experiment might entail.

i thought of a test that completely removes the human element. in the next room, have a computer set up. right click the spider solitaire shortcut and hover your mouse over the Open option. then, set up one of those water drinking bird things over the mouse. eventually, the bird will click the mouse, opening up a screen of spider solitaire that nobody has seen yet. the projector then AP's into the room and remembers the cards in order. then after they return and "wake up" the observer and the AP'er both look at the screen, and see how it compares.

What if they're a technopath, though?

Maybe combine several experiments? It wouldn't remove the possibility of another effect, but it would minimize it.

okay, i got it. send a blind person into room and have them do the 52 pickup things, and just spray cards everywhere. kill the blind person. the ap'er then goes into the room and looks at the cards, remembering which ones landed face up. then, they return, and the reviewer and the AP'er go in together to see how accurate he was.

 

[Daverson]

It wouldn't need a helper though, which could cause problems, for example, a sceptic of astral projection, but a believer in psionics could simply say that he wasn't really astrally projecting into the room, just unconsciously reading the mind of the helper and letting that influence his lucid dream.

At that point the test will have shown that there is something to investigate. If the helper claims psionics, another test can be devised to see if psionics are real. If they are, more testing is needed to tell if the first test was psionics or astral projection.

But step one is to see if there's even something to investigate.

I'd agree with you, but the point of the experiment would be to prove or disprove astral projection. We're not just throwing science at the wall and seeing what sticks!

(Hey, you joined the same day as me! We're like twins or something! =D )

okay, i got it. send a blind person into room and have them do the 52 pickup things, and just spray cards everywhere. kill the blind person. the ap'er then goes into the room and looks at the cards, remembering which ones landed face up. then, they return, and the reviewer and the AP'er go in together to see how accurate he was.

Pointless murder, I like it! Though... if we're going to kill them anyway, why bother with a blind person? (We can rule out necromancy, right?) Not that I'd give blind people positive discrimination by simply not killing them, but we do have less of them than sighted people, and there are experiments that need blind people to work properly.

Of course, that said, we can simply manufacture blind people using ocular scalpel implantation techniques, so maybe this is an unfounded concern.

 

[Beryl77]

People claiming to be able to do something without any kind of scientific prove? Of course I'm going to believe that, hey why not just believe anything that people claim to be able to do, see, etc,?

I'm sorry about the sarcasm but writing what I actually want to say is considered rude by most people and could get me banned here.
Also, using my psychic powers, I can totally see you and what you're wearing looks really bad on you. You should wear something else.

 

[the Dept of Science]

If you take away the spiritual language and just research "out of body experiences" you will find that they are a not-uncommmon and fairly well documented psychological phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

 

[Grospoliner]

Tried it once, then I almost got my silver cord cut by Githyanki. Those guys are jerks.

Be grateful you didn't meet The Lady.