At least 40 killed in Mexico in 24 hours

[lSHaDoW-FoXl]

Just Legalize the fucking drugs already! Who gives a fuck how unhealthy these drugs are, thousands of people have died! It amazes me how incompetent the government is in every-single-country.

Drug overdoses from legal painkillers killed over 30,000 people in the United States in 2005 alone. You think that making heroin and cocaine legal is going to decrease those numbers? Sure a few thousand people killed by Cartels is really really fucking awful but legalizing drugs is A) not going to stop their other illegal businesses and B) not going to stop people dying. If you really want your money to stop supporting these assholes then maybe you could just not buy the shit that makes them rich enough to fight the Mexican army in the first place?

Now, I am completely confused. You're supposedly a canid and yet you have a beaver as an avatar, that makes absolutely no sense. My short attention span and ADD aside . . .

I suppose some of my ideas were a tad extreme, but regardless I disagree with a great deal of your points.

1. Legalizing is usually what diminishes crime. Take a look at Prostitution and Liquour for example, legalizing the two of them had positive effects. Yes, it won't stop their business, but it'll probably have a positive effect against crime. I'll refrain from my early statement in 'legalizing everything' but I'll still hold my stance on the legalization of lesser drugs. Sure, it may not be their main focus (such as crack and all that lovely stuff) but every little bit helps.

2. Your second argument is basically demanding that everyone stops doing drugs all together, which is basically impossible. Speaking as a fellow that's never even touched a drug, we just can't expect that kind of responsibility from a great number of people. It's not 'just quit buying drugs!' It's more like convincing everyone in at least two countries to quit doing them all together.

For example, despite all the health problems with meat I bet if I rallied for people to ban it I doubt there'd be a great deal of progress.

3. Illegalizing drugs will not lower the number of all the people that died from overdose. And hell, your examples were legal drugs anyway. So these deaths were, in fact, from legal substances. Slapping 'illegal' on anything doesn't deter people from taking it, if they want it that badly enuough they'll do it. Healthy life styles cannot be enforced, they can only be promoted.

Illegalizing drugs will only make people pay more for it, make criminals kill people for it, and find alternatives in pharmaceuticals which basically do the exact same thing. Sure, a lot of people die from overdose. But we simply don't live in a world where we can get everyone to quit drugs. 30k people died from overdose, but due to certain substances being illegal we have even more people dying. We can't fix that 30K over night, but we can however at least take some steps in stopping innocent people from being gunned down simply because they chose to eat at the wrong place.

 

[zehydra]

The Cartels are really fighting over stuff like Crack and Heroin, and Marijuana, but Heroin and Cocaine are a far more profitable business for criminal syndicates (and they're extremely addictive).

Legalizing Marijuana may help some, but it won't eliminate the problem.

 

[WhiteShadow2401]

Being Mexican - and living in one of the worse cities of the country right now (Durango, if you are wondering) - I'd say 40 killed in 24 hours its a slow day.

Here, in Durango, we have had worse... (Not to mention the six mass graves (so far) we have found... with around 320 bodies... plus the mass graves in other cities... yeah) And I myself have been in the middle of one gang fight, and one other time another gang fight erupted just outside my university.

Not ALL Mexico has gone to hell... just the north. The south is "safe" (Safer than the north, at least)... but for how long? I do not know.

The good news (for me) is that just one more year of extreme survival, and I'm off to Europe =D.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

And it's even worse that i can't get the image of the gangs dressed up on mules with ponchos and bandanas.

You have that image in your head too? Some of mine have big, thick moustache and sombreros as well.

But seriously, it's exactly like prohibition. Your outlawing something everyone wants therefore giving power to people who shouldn't be in a position to hold it.

 

[Gindil]

Just Legalize the fucking drugs already! Who gives a fuck how unhealthy these drugs are, thousands of people have died! It amazes me how incompetent the government is in every-single-country.

Drug overdoses from legal painkillers killed over 30,000 people in the United States in 2005 alone. You think that making heroin and cocaine legal is going to decrease those numbers? Sure a few thousand people killed by Cartels is really really fucking awful but legalizing drugs is A) not going to stop their other illegal businesses and B) not going to stop people dying. If you really want your money to stop supporting these assholes then maybe you could just not buy the shit that makes them rich enough to fight the Mexican army in the first place?

The best way is legalization. This is why the organization of LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) has a lot of research into why the ban has made the US a lot more dangerous.

Google "The US drug policy has failed" on Youtube or look at the new commission report that says the exact same thing.

Of the people that have overdosed on drugs in other countries, it's mainly in the single digits rather than ODing here, which is more like a death sentence.

 

[ultratog1028]

People tend to forget that mexico is currently at ar with itself, even if it isn't "Official"

 

[WhiteShadow2401]

People tend to forget that mexico is currently at ar with itself, even if it isn't "Official"

For those of us innocents here, in the middle of the war, a memo telling us that shit was about to hit the fan would have been nice =P

 

[Beautiful End]

Well, I'll start off by saying I'm Mexican. I lived in Mexico City up until I was around 11 years old. I loved the place and it wasn't that bad back then (10 years ago). Violence, people looking over their shoulders, not being able to trust a stranger, that has always been around. But all that is the government's fault.

Cops can't be taken seriously. You just KNOW cops are corrupted and ignorant about their job, rules don't apply, not even at stop signs, government offices are a joke when it comes to helping the consumer, people blame each other for whatever and well, it's not going anywhere. The government knows that people are getting peed off about this so they're trying to compensate this fact by adding a bunch of useless features to their system. But it's still not working.

The problem is that the cartel and all those organized gangs have reached control over the government to the point where no high-ranked government official would dare make a move against a gang because they just know they wouldn't live up to see tomorrow. So what do they do?
"Fuck it. I come first. I got my money and I'm alive. Fuck everything else."
It's a fight or flight response that would eventually take over anyone, especially if you have a family. Not too long ago, there was this small little town somewhere near the border. No one dared take on the sheriff's position. So a woman took on that position, fed up with the crimes and wanting to make a difference. She had the best intentions. In the end, she was forced to seek refugee here in the US after she and her family got a death threat.
Point is, it's impossible to do anything right now. Making a move involves blood being spilled. And no one is willing to go through that?

Why? Because, believe it not, Mexico is still a civilized country. Go to Mexico City and it feels a little like NY. You'll be hard pressed to find gangs killing each other or something like that, stuff that you'd see at the movies. It's not like Afghanistan where you see people carrying guns everywhere, seeking refugee under destroyed cars or people starving to death. People go on with their lives the best they can. It's bad, yes, but not THAT bad.

As a matter of fact, I live next to Ciudad Juarez, now considered the most dangerous city in the world. People do die there everyday on a daily basis. I still go there each week to visit some friends. But again, it's not like I've even seen a dead body in the middle of the street or people running away from a gunfight or something. Have I heard of friends and my friend's family members dying because of this? Yes, quite often, actually. But these gangs are smart enough to keep the important people under their control and the government is as dumb as to try and keep the citizens as oblivious to this as possible. Bottom line: It's still a city. You know what's going on, you're still afraid it might happen to you, but it's still a city. Doesn't look like a battlefield or anything, just a city. Until they reach that point where they realize this is a serious situation and something must be done about this, things will stay the same.

As much as I'd love to see an uprising, I would be afraid of seeing the government crash and burn. I mean, we all know that would happen. But then what? A civil war? Maybe it's because I'm Mexican but the idea just sounds absurd. If the US intervened, then it would be a different story. but I've always said that the US kinda meddles with enough foreign brawls as it is, so I'd be one to talk. So up until then, things will remain the same. People will keep on dying, those who dare make a move will die, sadly.

 

[Canid117]

Just Legalize the fucking drugs already! Who gives a fuck how unhealthy these drugs are, thousands of people have died! It amazes me how incompetent the government is in every-single-country.

Drug overdoses from legal painkillers killed over 30,000 people in the United States in 2005 alone. You think that making heroin and cocaine legal is going to decrease those numbers? Sure a few thousand people killed by Cartels is really really fucking awful but legalizing drugs is A) not going to stop their other illegal businesses and B) not going to stop people dying. If you really want your money to stop supporting these assholes then maybe you could just not buy the shit that makes them rich enough to fight the Mexican army in the first place?

Now, I am completely confused. You're supposedly a canid and yet you have a beaver as an avatar, that makes absolutely no sense. My short attention span and ADD aside . . .

I suppose some of my ideas were a tad extreme, but regardless I disagree with a great deal of your points.

1. Legalizing is usually what diminishes crime. Take a look at Prostitution and Liquour for example, legalizing the two of them had positive effects. Yes, it won't stop their business, but it'll probably have a positive effect against crime. I'll refrain from my early statement in 'legalizing everything' but I'll still hold my stance on the legalization of lesser drugs. Sure, it may not be their main focus (such as crack and all that lovely stuff) but every little bit helps.

2. Your second argument is basically demanding that everyone stops doing drugs all together, which is basically impossible. Speaking as a fellow that's never even touched a drug, we just can't expect that kind of responsibility from a great number of people. It's not 'just quit buying drugs!' It's more like convincing everyone in at least two countries to quit doing them all together.

For example, despite all the health problems with meat I bet if I rallied for people to ban it I doubt there'd be a great deal of progress.

3. Illegalizing drugs will not lower the number of all the people that died from overdose. And hell, your examples were legal drugs anyway. So these deaths were, in fact, from legal substances. Slapping 'illegal' on anything doesn't deter people from taking it, if they want it that badly enuough they'll do it. Healthy life styles cannot be enforced, they can only be promoted.

Illegalizing drugs will only make people pay more for it, make criminals kill people for it, and find alternatives in pharmaceuticals which basically do the exact same thing. Sure, a lot of people die from overdose. But we simply don't live in a world where we can get everyone to quit drugs. 30k people died from overdose, but due to certain substances being illegal we have even more people dying. We can't fix that 30K over night, but we can however at least take some steps in stopping innocent people from being gunned down simply because they chose to eat at the wrong place.

Actually its an obese Gopher.
1)The mob still exists and still does illegal stuff. making one of their sources of income illegal has not destroyed them. The only thing that will stop the Cartels in Mexico is a widespread shift in the populace. The people of Mexico need to stand and say "enough." The Mexican government is too corrupt and over extended to fight the problem effectively. Sorry but legalizing pot isn't going to stop a gang war. It just means they will fight over something else.
2)I was actually commenting on the tendency of people demonizing the government for banning drugs (half of which are much nastier than marijuana) while they are just as a fault for what is happening. The government may have allowed a supply to pop up but it is the stoners who create the demand. They are just as responsible and have no right to try and take a moral high ground in this situation.
3)Illegalizing is not a word. I think you were looking for a variation on the word "ban."
4)The point I was making is that you said "thousands of people have died" implying that drug related death would stop if they were legalized. That is not the case. Heroin and Cocaine are the most items sold after marijuana and likely the most profitable due to the increased price. Legalizing the drugs that these Cartels use to make money would only make it easier to OD on these more dangerous drugs. Thousands would still die in Mexico and even more would die here. How does that make anything better?

Of the people that have overdosed on drugs in other countries, it's mainly in the single digits rather than ODing here, which is more like a death sentence.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but what I was trying to say is that lots of people OD everywhere drugs are readily available. (you can look up the stats the numbers are in the thousands for other developed countries as well) How would making Cocaine and Heroin (two of the most lucrative drugs that the Cartels sell due to high price and high volume sold)more readily available reduce that number? If you really wanted to rob the Cartels of their drug based profits (not their only source of income btw) you would have to legalize all of them.

 

[headshotcatcher]

I thought one person disappeared from Mexico City every hour/day, so this is minor compared to that

 

[Yoshisummons]

Come back when there is maybe four digits on the death toll to reach the radar on a morality by numbers man.

 

[Gindil]

Of the people that have overdosed on drugs in other countries, it's mainly in the single digits rather than ODing here, which is more like a death sentence.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but what I was trying to say is that lots of people OD everywhere drugs are readily available. (you can look up the stats the numbers are in the thousands for other developed countries as well) How would making Cocaine and Heroin (two of the most lucrative drugs that the Cartels sell due to high price and high volume sold)more readily available reduce that number? If you really wanted to rob the Cartels of their drug based profits (not their only source of income btw) you would have to legalize all of them.

I don't have much time right now, but when drugs are legalized and regulated by the government (Sweden, Amsterdam, etc) the ODs went down. I mainly base it on this data in this video (~43:00 into it).

If you want a fuller answer, I'll write it out later on today.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_18468816?source=most_viewed

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/10/world/la-fg-mexico-violence-20110710

 

[Ironic Pirate]

...
Um, that's bad.
And it's even worse that i can't get the image of the gangs dressed up on mules with ponchos and bandanas.
But judging from this, they really need to crack down on gang crime.
But 40 people dead!?
That's really quite a lot.

I think legalizing marijuana would help cut into the gangs profits which would make them less effective (which would save law enforcement lives, because if you get shot at while trying to arrest somebody for marijuana, let's face it, you're fighting a gangster not a stoner), but at some point law enforcement has to be part of the solution.

And the gangs will sell anything that's contraband. If they legalized weed and outlawed hotdogs, the gangs would all be smuggling hotdogs and killing one another over hotdog vending turf.

It's like the real world version of the Transfat episode of King of the Hill.

This... is not about weed. Think more along the lines of heroin, or cocaine. General hint, if you can grow it in your backyard, people probably aren't going to kill each other smuggling it out of another country.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

1 dead is a tragedy. 40 dead is a statistic. 40 dead Mexicans is a good punchline.

A mangled Call of Duty quote plus racism. Classy.

...
Um, that's bad.
And it's even worse that i can't get the image of the gangs dressed up on mules with ponchos and bandanas.
But judging from this, they really need to crack down on gang crime.
But 40 people dead!?
That's really quite a lot.

I think legalizing marijuana would help cut into the gangs profits which would make them less effective (which would save law enforcement lives, because if you get shot at while trying to arrest somebody for marijuana, let's face it, you're fighting a gangster not a stoner), but at some point law enforcement has to be part of the solution.

And the gangs will sell anything that's contraband. If they legalized weed and outlawed hotdogs, the gangs would all be smuggling hotdogs and killing one another over hotdog vending turf.

It's like the real world version of the Transfat episode of King of the Hill.

That won't work, most of the time those gangs sell guns and other drugs like cocaine to gangs in california. Pot is a side business compared to the variety gangs have at their disposal.

What is really the problem is lack of government control. Cops are corrupt, and so is the government. It wont do a single bit of good to legalize pot when the cartels are free to roam.

Very wrong on Marijuana being a side business since it is the most sold drug. http://listverse.com/2009/08/12/top-10-most-popular-recreational-drugs/

Eh? Because all drugs come from Mexico, right? Oh, wait, no. Marijuana is sold by Steve the pothead, who grows it in his backyard. The closest Steve has come to violence would be getting pulled over by a cop one time. Cocaine is sold by drug cartels. These are the guys who kill 40 people in a day.


Also, sidebar. Dear Jet company, I will never buy your any of your stupid shitty products. Because you made me watch a video ad just to post something, while I was listening to music. Anyone who subjects me to an ad that is even half as annoying as a video captcha can go fuck right off, they don't need my money. Satan is clearly providing for all their bills.

 

[Littlee300]

1 dead is a tragedy. 40 dead is a statistic. 40 dead Mexicans is a good punchline.

A mangled Call of Duty quote plus racism. Classy.

...
Um, that's bad.
And it's even worse that i can't get the image of the gangs dressed up on mules with ponchos and bandanas.
But judging from this, they really need to crack down on gang crime.
But 40 people dead!?
That's really quite a lot.

I think legalizing marijuana would help cut into the gangs profits which would make them less effective (which would save law enforcement lives, because if you get shot at while trying to arrest somebody for marijuana, let's face it, you're fighting a gangster not a stoner), but at some point law enforcement has to be part of the solution.

And the gangs will sell anything that's contraband. If they legalized weed and outlawed hotdogs, the gangs would all be smuggling hotdogs and killing one another over hotdog vending turf.

It's like the real world version of the Transfat episode of King of the Hill.

That won't work, most of the time those gangs sell guns and other drugs like cocaine to gangs in california. Pot is a side business compared to the variety gangs have at their disposal.

What is really the problem is lack of government control. Cops are corrupt, and so is the government. It wont do a single bit of good to legalize pot when the cartels are free to roam.

Very wrong on Marijuana being a side business since it is the most sold drug. http://listverse.com/2009/08/12/top-10-most-popular-recreational-drugs/

Eh? Because all drugs come from Mexico, right? Oh, wait, no. Marijuana is sold by Steve the pothead, who grows it in his backyard. The closest Steve has come to violence would be getting pulled over by a cop one time. Cocaine is sold by drug cartels. These are the guys who kill 40 people in a day.


Also, sidebar. Dear Jet company, I will never buy your any of your stupid shitty products. Because you made me watch a video ad just to post something, while I was listening to music. Anyone who subjects me to an ad that is even half as annoying as a video captcha can go fuck right off, they don't need my money. Satan is clearly providing for all their bills.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-02-21-2221217072_x.htm AHA!
Was I late?

 

[Ironic Pirate]

1 dead is a tragedy. 40 dead is a statistic. 40 dead Mexicans is a good punchline.

A mangled Call of Duty quote plus racism. Classy.

...
Um, that's bad.
And it's even worse that i can't get the image of the gangs dressed up on mules with ponchos and bandanas.
But judging from this, they really need to crack down on gang crime.
But 40 people dead!?
That's really quite a lot.

I think legalizing marijuana would help cut into the gangs profits which would make them less effective (which would save law enforcement lives, because if you get shot at while trying to arrest somebody for marijuana, let's face it, you're fighting a gangster not a stoner), but at some point law enforcement has to be part of the solution.

And the gangs will sell anything that's contraband. If they legalized weed and outlawed hotdogs, the gangs would all be smuggling hotdogs and killing one another over hotdog vending turf.

It's like the real world version of the Transfat episode of King of the Hill.

That won't work, most of the time those gangs sell guns and other drugs like cocaine to gangs in california. Pot is a side business compared to the variety gangs have at their disposal.

What is really the problem is lack of government control. Cops are corrupt, and so is the government. It wont do a single bit of good to legalize pot when the cartels are free to roam.

Very wrong on Marijuana being a side business since it is the most sold drug. http://listverse.com/2009/08/12/top-10-most-popular-recreational-drugs/

Eh? Because all drugs come from Mexico, right? Oh, wait, no. Marijuana is sold by Steve the pothead, who grows it in his backyard. The closest Steve has come to violence would be getting pulled over by a cop one time. Cocaine is sold by drug cartels. These are the guys who kill 40 people in a day.


Also, sidebar. Dear Jet company, I will never buy your any of your stupid shitty products. Because you made me watch a video ad just to post something, while I was listening to music. Anyone who subjects me to an ad that is even half as annoying as a video captcha can go fuck right off, they don't need my money. Satan is clearly providing for all their bills.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-02-21-2221217072_x.htm AHA!
Was I late?

I have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't see what bearing the latest stories from USA today have on this discussion. Unless this debate was secretly about Colleges boosting student fees, because that's what you linked me too.

 

[Griffolion]

Wow, I haven't even heard of this til' now! This is really bad!