At what point does trying to stop racism CREATE racism?

[Fox12]

Oh dear. College is largely an improvement over highschool, but every once in a while you get something like this. I still remember having to read Feminist Fairytales for class. It was cringeworthy. They even felt the need throw in some environmentalist drivel as well. The writing was atrocious. The sad thing is that it's possible to have that kind of story be good. Go read The Bloody Chamber.

Out of morbid curiosity, how did your teacher respond to this?

 

[aba1]

Welcome to the Red Pill my friend XD.

I sure hope that isn't an introduction to MGTOW, because I'm nowhere near agreeing with their conclusions.

I also find it interesting that "white" people are considered the most privileged in western society despite the fact that "asians" are overwhelmingly the most successful as a group (not that there is anything wrong with that).

I don't think anyone really cares about this, on either side of the issue.
Why? Because people who'd try to use this as a counterpoint of "Asian privilege" superseding "white privilege" don't take this kind of thinking seriously to begin with, and people who do are willing to break out their "white privilege" ledger and provide hundreds of examples that put whites back on top of the oppression pyramid.

Haha no you don't have to be MGTOW nor agree with them. I think they have some interesting things to say on occasion but typically I disagree with them specifically their conclusions on things much like yourself.

Good point on the whole "Asian Privilege" thing too. Most people who recognize that sorta thing really don't play the whole privilege or oppression olympics games. Even with myself I only even really bring it up to make people who do question their perspective a little bit but I don't buy into it myself really.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

When people start asking for racial segregation on the grounds that it will reduce racism. And that's already happening.

 

[EternallyBored]

Edit: And reading all the rest, I support your endeavor to not become a social worker. I'd say that's the best course of action for everyone.

Why, exactly?

I get that I may have come across as frustrated and defensive, but the entire reason I am posting here is to listen to people who challenge what I say. I have a point to make, but I'm not stubbornly insisting that people should agree with me. As far as I can tell, the best way for me to come to terms with whatever problems I have as a potential social worker (I'm guess you think these are a propensity to get frustrated and defensive,) are to open myself to new perspectives and try to understand them.

So, do you say that because I'm taking the totally wrong approach to personal improvement, or do you really think I'd only ever make a negative impact in this field?

Based on what you have said so far I'm thoroughly concerned at the prospect of you being in a position of power over vulnerable people when you have demonstrated insensitivity to other people's struggles, and dismissed actual legitimate science based on your own feelings. Anyone can get "defensive" or "frustrated". The issue is why you feel that way, and in this case you have said several things that can easily be seen as sexist and racist.

Eh, as a social worker, I've met plenty of professionals that had issues similar to what the OP has, the main thing is just whether or not he can refrain from spewing his opinions all over his vulnerable clients. Social work is not sociology or anthropology, you are there to be an advocate for the client in most cases, not to study them or argue macro social principles with them, which means you have to accept what they tell you to a certain extent, if a client to is saying things you don't like you don't get to start challenging them just because you want to get defensive. There are options of course depending on what type of social work we are talking about, but generally, you need to be able to control your tongue around clients to a certain extent.

The main issue is how much power you have over them, depending on your position, you can easily sabotage pretty much any government assistance program they try to apply for, ruin their chances in court, break up their family by force of law, or even sabotage therapy similar to the power a therapist has over someone. You aren't there to debate their politics and getting defensive and frustrated in front of a client is a good way to lose their trust fast.

Clients are going to dismiss your view point, they are going to call you every nasty personal name or slur in the book, they will threaten you or try to manipulate you, and they will most definitely lie through their teeth to you. If OP believes that there is some point where someone's rhetoric may create genuinely racist thoughts in him, then he will likely burn out fast in the social work field as the clients will turn him into a bitter racist judgemental wreck, completely unable to put up even the pretenses of being unbiased or fair, I've seen that happen to multiple coworkers, and they usually end up leaving the field or sticking around and making both them and their client's lives miserable.

Now, if OP can keep that frustration and defensiveness to expressing his opinions to coworkers, academics, or other professionals, then he's probably mostly fine, everybody has their hangups, political biases, or just plain biased towards or against certain social theories, and macro level policy decisions are a good place for that kind of debate. While I don't agree with some of his conclusions, the field is still diverse enough to support a debate on the topic, just don't dump that shit on your clients.

More on topic: if your experiences with one or a couple of teacher biases are genuinely making you question your career, you might be better served doing more research into what you want to do with a social work degree, because almost all social work positions I've been in have not required me to use any sort of social theory that I don't agree with. If you think agreeing 100% with every social theory and test question you get in class is going to come into play in a social work job, you'll be sorely mistaken, honestly I've forgotten a lot of that stuff after graduation, most social workers tend to mix and match a lot of different parts of theories and methods that they like rather than adhering to everything they learned in school and add it to the much more valuable and career specific knowledge you learn on the job.

You know how much I've ever used Racial identity theory since I graduated, or worried about becoming a non-racist euro-American? Not once, my QA staff isn't there to check if I'm using a proper racial awareness model, they just make sure I'm filling out all my paperwork correctly. Anything beyond that is entirely up to me how much I use over the course of dealing with clients.

If I were you I'd worry more about whether or not you think you can handle the burn out inherent in this profession, because if you're serious that a bunch of generically progressive social theories you disagree with is making you actually question whether to drop your degree you likely spent considerable time and money on, then you might need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself how the hell your going to deal with much more emotionally charged situations with clients. Your clients will chew you up and spit you out if this amateur level crap is what makes you question your career.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

When black women start yelling at white dudes for having dreadlocks because its cultural appropriation and violence.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

"All of the above" is certainly and clearly the only correct answer to that question. I could tell you that without ever having taken a course like this in my life, not because I think I am especially knowledgeable of the subject but because it is so obviously the only possible correct answer in terms of taking a test.

Think about it completely dispassionately for a minute. The answers are all written in buzz words, but their meaning is fairly simple. A means you are aware of what race is. B means you understand that racism exists. C means you accept the idea that there are other points of view that are just as valid as your own. D means you intend to take the knowledge of A, B, and C and use it to not be racist.

A and B only cover the most basic requirements of acknowledging the existence of racism. Any member of the KKK has fully accomplished both A and B. That doesn't mean they are not racist, so clearly "A and B" cannot be the correct answer. And clearly knowing racism exists is required, so the only possible answer is all of the above.

Now, why the question mentioned white people specifically, I honestly think that it is a trick question. The point of the question is to provoke a passionate reaction in the student to get them to stop thinking rationally so they answer with their gut instead of running through the simple process of elimination to get to the obvious correct answer, or at least the answer your teacher wanted based on the clues given. You see this kind of question a lot from biology 101 professors who have to teach evolution to religious students that think with their faith instead of their brain.

In other words, you got triggered by one of the classic forms of trick questions and were fooled into answering poorly. You should probably brush up on your test taking skills.

 

[kenu12345]

When black women start yelling at white dudes for having dreadlocks because its cultural appropriation and violence.

Dear god, I remember that video. What are up with those sort of people

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

When black women start yelling at white dudes for having dreadlocks because its cultural appropriation and violence.

Dear god, I remember that video. What are up with those sort of people

I honestly thought it was a prank. Like an April fools day joke from College Humor or maybe the Onion. Something to purposefully trigger anti-SJWs at how extreme she was.

But no. It was real. She - and I'm going to use this term because its a micro-aggression and I know it'd piss her off - manhandled him, even as he tried to walk away.

 

[Breakdown]

As we all know it's impossible for a white person to become a non-racist, so this is a trick question. It's basically the social worker version of Star Trek's Kobayashi Maru test, and they're assessing how you cope with a no-win situation.

 

[Breakdown]

As we all know it's impossible for a white person to become a non-racist, so this is a trick question. It's basically the social worker version of Star Trek's Kobayashi Maru test, and they're assessing how you cope with a no-win situation.

So Rachel Dolezal is Captain Kirk?

Yep. She probably wears a wig as well.

 

[Veylon]

Looking at this mess, I'd just answer the question correctly/"correctly" for the purposes of getting the points needed to pass the test (and get your degree) and then complain privately about it later. I've seen teachers rework or eliminate questions on the basis of student feedback. If the teacher is some kind of ideologue, complain upwards and/or give the teacher a bad review at the end of the course.

Whether or not any of that works, get your grade and get out. Once you've got your degree, you can toss out whatever parts that you didn't like aside. Your only bothering with it so that you can get what you want out of them anyway.

Oh, and on the subject of whites not having any persecution cred? Pretend to have some ethnic blood. Mention that you're Irish or Jewish or Slavic and how those Anglo-Saxon bastards treated your people like crap. Once you whipped up some totally-true not-made-up tales of woe, you can go on and make the actual point you were intending to make without that fluffy white cloud hanging over your head. It's for a good cause.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I'd just answer the question and call it day.

A lot of what I learned in college is just how to navigate through peoples bullshit like a minefield. Take whatever you feel is useful, purge the rest.

I know, "somebody needs to say something", but keep in mind that person doesn't have to be you. And when you choose to be that person, historically, it doesn't end well. just something to keep in mind.

I credit college in opening my eyes, and gave me a better understanding about racism and what not, but I also became very well aware the far left is just as fucking crazy as the far right.

When black women start yelling at white dudes for having dreadlocks because its cultural appropriation and violence.

Dear god, I remember that video. What are up with those sort of people

I honestly thought it was a prank. Like an April fools day joke from College Humor or maybe the Onion. Something to purposefully trigger anti-SJWs at how extreme she was.

But no. It was real. She - and I'm going to use this term because its a micro-aggression and I know it'd piss her off - manhandled him, even as he tried to walk away.

I just saw this yesterday, ya know I'm a pretty liberal person but there at limits and that is pretty much the exact reason I don't put much stuck in things like cultural appropriation. Cause at a certain point, one is taking issues with things like a persons hair. Who the hell can function like that?

Oh it did piss me off so much that he does the right thing and tries to leave peacefully and she puts her hands on him. Who the fuck she thinks she is, and then she has the nerve to say "don't touch me" fucking people.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Your class exists to teach you a set of terms to be able to spit out on demand and from your knowledge of those terms, their meanings, and their context, help you form informed opinions on a particular subject matter. You chose to give your opinion rather than define the term. I'd have marked you wrong too if I were the professor.

To give an example, I may not agree with certain processes for coding, but when a question came up asking "According to [process], how should you [do thing]?" I would go by what that process says.

EDIT: And if you honestly think this is the kind of hill you need to die on, wait till you get a job and every process you have to work through is arbitrary, stupid, and non-negotiable, and you have to choose between following it or getting fired.

 

[Areloch]

Your class exists to teach you a set of terms to be able to spit out on demand and from your knowledge of those terms, their meanings, and their context, help you form informed opinions on a particular subject matter. You chose to give your opinion rather than define the term. I'd have marked you wrong too if I were the professor.

To give an example, I may not agree with certain processes for coding, but when a question came up asking "According to [process], how should you [do thing]?" I would go by what that process says.

EDIT: And if you honestly think this is the kind of hill you need to die on, wait till you get a job and every process you have to work through is arbitrary, stupid, and non-negotiable, and you have to choose between following it or getting fired.

That said, real life isn't that black and white either.

There are PLENTY of cases where if you can present valid reasoning behind why you did something as opposed to the "correct" way, then you can convince your teacher/boss.

So while yes, there are plenty of times where you have no choice but to accept the way presented, accepting that as the absolute truth is flawed as well.

There's nothing wrong with him attempting to approach the teacher and posit an alternate take/reasoning. Good teachers that don't have their own heads shoved up the deep dark reaches will consider those reasonings, and at minimum explain why that's not valid.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Your class exists to teach you a set of terms to be able to spit out on demand and from your knowledge of those terms, their meanings, and their context, help you form informed opinions on a particular subject matter. You chose to give your opinion rather than define the term. I'd have marked you wrong too if I were the professor.

To give an example, I may not agree with certain processes for coding, but when a question came up asking "According to [process], how should you [do thing]?" I would go by what that process says.

EDIT: And if you honestly think this is the kind of hill you need to die on, wait till you get a job and every process you have to work through is arbitrary, stupid, and non-negotiable, and you have to choose between following it or getting fired.

That said, real life isn't that black and white either.

There are PLENTY of cases where if you can present valid reasoning behind why you did something as opposed to the "correct" way, then you can convince your teacher/boss.

So while yes, there are plenty of times where you have no choice but to accept the way presented, accepting that as the absolute truth is flawed as well.

There's nothing wrong with him attempting to approach the teacher and posit an alternate take/reasoning. Good teachers that don't have their own heads shoved up the deep dark reaches will consider those reasonings, and at minimum explain why that's not valid.

Clearly you have had very different bosses from myself. Or I've just had a particularly stressful day of work. Whatever.

 

[Areloch]

Your class exists to teach you a set of terms to be able to spit out on demand and from your knowledge of those terms, their meanings, and their context, help you form informed opinions on a particular subject matter. You chose to give your opinion rather than define the term. I'd have marked you wrong too if I were the professor.

To give an example, I may not agree with certain processes for coding, but when a question came up asking "According to [process], how should you [do thing]?" I would go by what that process says.

EDIT: And if you honestly think this is the kind of hill you need to die on, wait till you get a job and every process you have to work through is arbitrary, stupid, and non-negotiable, and you have to choose between following it or getting fired.

That said, real life isn't that black and white either.

There are PLENTY of cases where if you can present valid reasoning behind why you did something as opposed to the "correct" way, then you can convince your teacher/boss.

So while yes, there are plenty of times where you have no choice but to accept the way presented, accepting that as the absolute truth is flawed as well.

There's nothing wrong with him attempting to approach the teacher and posit an alternate take/reasoning. Good teachers that don't have their own heads shoved up the deep dark reaches will consider those reasonings, and at minimum explain why that's not valid.

Clearly you have had very different bosses from myself. Or I've just had a particularly stressful day of work. Whatever.

Heh, both are entirely probable.

Like said, there are definitely times(and jobs) where you get exactly -10% say in what goes on, even if it is objectively flawed by all counts. It definitely depends on who's in charge. But there's plenty of places where if a solid case can be made, it'll get rolled in.

Unfortunately, it is pretty much a crap-shoot :/

 

[RikuoAmero]

Your class exists to teach you a set of terms to be able to spit out on demand and from your knowledge of those terms, their meanings, and their context, help you form informed opinions on a particular subject matter. You chose to give your opinion rather than define the term. I'd have marked you wrong too if I were the professor.

To give an example, I may not agree with certain processes for coding, but when a question came up asking "According to [process], how should you [do thing]?" I would go by what that process says.

EDIT: And if you honestly think this is the kind of hill you need to die on, wait till you get a job and every process you have to work through is arbitrary, stupid, and non-negotiable, and you have to choose between following it or getting fired.

Excuse me, but aren't you being contradictory in your first three lines there? You say the class exists to 'help you form informed opinions' then say that you'd have marked the OP wrong for...giving his opinion.

 

[RikuoAmero]

reply to Thaluikhain, post 18

Personally, I'd argue that someone living in a society has a responsibility to try to better that society, especially in a democracy where power in entrusted to all voters.

If someone is expressly not expressing disapproval with a social problem, that means at least part of society doesn't see it as a problem. I don't see neutrality as something someone can hold to with social issues.

I disagree with this because this has the overtones of Sparta, where if you're not a soldier, you're not a citizen. I have seen this sort of insidious thinking elsewhere. I'm thinking now of videos I've seen on Youtube where a college girl argues that no-one has a right to free speech...unless they're doing social and political activism.

EDIT - Why am I marked as a premium member? I'm not...

 

[Mad World]

Political correctness is really negatively affecting certain countries. For example, also known as "employment equity," "affirmative action" really is being racist toward whites. In some job positions (such as policing {also applies to applying to schools}), if a Caucasian who is applying has higher marks on their written examination, physical examination, etc. than a Persian applicant, for example, the Persian applicant may very well be chosen over the more suitable Caucasian candidate. Artificially inflating the amount of minorities hired is not the way to go. Affirmative action is simply immoral and counterproductive.

Anyway, I guess that my answer would be "employment equity."

I'm white, and I definitely do NOT feel any guilt whatsoever with regard to whatever my ancestors did; had nothing to do with me. What has been committed in the past was wrong, but it wasn't my fault.