Atheism Shouldn't Exist

[Grey Day for Elcia]

This isn't in the religious board for a reason, btw; as the thread will demonstrate, it isn't about religion.

OT: Atheism should not exist. Why?

"In fact, 'atheism' is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non-astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist.' We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

-- Sam Harris

That's one hell [/pun] of a point.

Thoughts?

Captcha: global warming

 

[CAPTCHA]

Then perhaps we should also remove the word free from the dictionary since there is no need to state an absence of price or absence of some sort of overlord. While we're at it we might as well not use the word dry.

OK maybe that's being a bit perdantic, but it's not too far of the mark. Seculism is a pretty big deal in the history of humanity. There has to be a word to describe it.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Then perhaps we should also remove the word free from the dictionary since there is no need to state an absence of price or absence of some sort of overlord.

Yeah, you seem to have missed the point entirely.

Let me explain: free means no price. The 'thing' being described is the lack of repayment required. Atheism means not religious. But religion shouldn't be accepted by default; you shouldn't need to state that you aren't religious. It is reasonable to expect an object or service to require payment, so it is also reasonable to use the word free. Why should it be reasonable to expect someone to have a religious perspective? The terms (free and Atheism) are being used to describe lack of what is otherwise implied--if everything was free or it was rare for anything not to be free, the term wouldn't exist.

If you still don't get it: Atheism can only exist in a world where people are expected to be religious by default--a.k.a.: a fucked up world--and need to inform others otherwise.

 

[Launcelot111]

Religion came first, so they get first dibs on picking a name. Being a-something suggests reacting against a norm, which religion has been for a long time, hence atheist.

I like the quote, and I would be interested if someone could think up a good name for atheists that stands on its own instead of in opposition to religion

 

[CAPTCHA]

Then perhaps we should also remove the word free from the dictionary since there is no need to state an absence of price or absence of some sort of overlord.

Yeah, you seem to have missed the point entirely.

Let me explain: free means no price. The 'thing' being described is the lack of repayment required. Atheism means not religious. But religion shouldn't be accepted by default; you shouldn't need to state that you aren't religious. It is reasonable to expect an object or service to require payment, so it is also reasonable to use the word free. Why should it be reasonable to expect someone to have a religious perspective? The terms (free and Atheism) are being used to describe lack of what is otherwise implied--if everything was free or it was rare for anything not to be free, the term wouldn't exist.

If you still don't get it: Atheism can only exist in a world where people are expected to be religious by default--a.k.a.: a fucked up world--and need to inform others otherwise.

And until less than centuary ago religious belief was the default. As I said in my first post (my girlfriend cam into talk to me and I think you quoted me before I'd finished writing), there has to be a word to discribe this massive cultural movement. Would you deny feminists the title when that was a new thing because equal rights should be the default stance? I can accept that the term athiest will become irrelevant in time, but it's still required at the moment.

 

[Spambot 3000]

Nah. Because all the religions have their own names (accompanied by huge amounts of followers) atheists need a term to seperate themselves. Atheism is the belief system of atheists. If religion ever got to the point where should anyone choose to believe in a god and the majority of people in the world called them 'nutcases' and not 'Christians/Jews/Muslims' etc. then no-one would need to be called an atheist. Like how if you don't believe aliens are out to molest our cattle, you're not called a flabbawargger. Because most people don't believe that aliens want our sexy, sexy cows.
Basically, it all comes down to mob rule. While religion is still a 'thing' you can't say 'there's no need for me to be labelled' as if being non-religious is the norm. Similarly, if the whole Christian belief system turned out to be right all along, people wouldn't be called Christians anymore, they'd just be called people. I hope you can sort of see what I'm (very poorly) trying to say here.

Edit: Eh, I guess I personally prefer a term to seperate myself from the religious. If others don't like being called an atheist because they lack belief, then they have a good reason as to why they shouldn't be called atheists. Still, we get called atheists because of majority over minority.

 

[Queen Michael]

We've got the word "sugar-free," and "atheist" is the same thing. Except with God and not sugar.

 

[Keoul]

I'm confused, does he think Atheism the word should not exist or the act of not being a part of a religion?
Either way it's just a word used to let people know that they don't believe in any religion.

We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle.
-- Sam Harris

we call them conspiracy theorists

 

[Spambot 3000]

Yeah, the word atheist needs to exist. Also, well played with the thread title there

Very well played with the thread title. My initial thoughts were that this thread was going to be a religious person trying to provide adequate amounts of evidence as to why religion is right and why 'Atheism shouldn't exist'. Got something quite different.

 

[Sis]

Atheist: a person that believes that there is no god.

What's a Non-astrologist? A person that believes that there is no space?

 

[Spambot 3000]

Atheist: a person that believes that there is no god.

What's a Non-astrologist? A person that believes that there is no space?

I think you're confusing 'astrology' with 'astronomy'.

 

[FalloutJack]

This isn't in the religious board for a reason, btw; as the thread will demonstrate, it isn't about religion.

OT: Atheism should not exist. Why?

"In fact, 'atheism' is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non-astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist.' We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

-- Sam Harris

That's one hell [/pun] of a point.

Thoughts?

Captcha: global warming

The Problem: You have to call it something. Atheists think don't believe in god. Nihilists don't believe in anything. These things are self-defeating lines of thinking, one way or another, but you still need a term for the people who think this way. It's not about whether Atheism is a religion or not...because it's not. It's a philosophy. Philosophy and religion collide constantly, so this comes as no surprise. As a Catholic myself, I'm of the opinion that there is a god. However, as a cynic, I also believe that god isn't always a nice guy. Life is funny that way.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

The Problem: You have to call it something.

You missed the entire point. Just because YOU have a religion doesn't mean someone has to title themselves as NOT having a religion. Some people sky-dive, so do we now need a non-sky-diver title? Some people play soccer/football. Do we now need to create a label for people who don't? Some people believe in aliens. Do people who don't need to call themselves a name referring to not believing in aliens?

It's nothing but obnoxious rhetoric on behalf of religious zealots for us to have to label ourselves non-believers. Religion isn't the default. You aren't born not believing. You are born NOTHING. You CHOOSE to become religious and you CHOOSE the title. Atheists chose not to take up a religion and therefore stay default--no title.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I would be interested if someone could think up a good name for atheists that stands on its own instead of in opposition to religion

That's the WHOLE POINT; we don't need a damn title. We (those without a religion) are the default. We haven't chosen to be religious so there is no title. If you take up sky-diving you are a sky-diver. You aren't born a sky-diver and you don't call people who don't choose to be a sky-diver some shitty label.

"It's nothing but obnoxious rhetoric on behalf of religious zealots for us to have to label ourselves non-believers. Religion isn't the default. You aren't born not believing. You are born NOTHING. You CHOOSE to become religious and you CHOOSE the title. Atheists chose not to take up a religion and therefore stay default--no title."

 

[Hoplon]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Wait, we have words for people that believe Elvis is alive?

 

[Spambot 3000]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

True. Wrong explanation on my behalf there. I was thinking more "I believe there is no God" rather than "I don't believe in God".

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

Exactly. I always laugh my ass off when someone says "Atheists believe God doesn't exist." What don't people get? Atheism by definition means lack of belief--not disbelief. It means neutrality. It means absence. No one calls a baby an Atheist.