Atheism Shouldn't Exist

[smithy_2045]

I would be interested if someone could think up a good name for atheists that stands on its own instead of in opposition to religion

That's the WHOLE POINT; we don't need a damn title. We (those without a religion) are the default. We haven't chosen to be religious so there is no title. If you take up sky-diving you are a sky-diver. You aren't born a sky-diver and you don't call people who don't choose to be a sky-diver some shitty label.

"It's nothing but obnoxious rhetoric on behalf of religious zealots for us to have to label ourselves non-believers. Religion isn't the default. You aren't born not believing. You are born NOTHING. You CHOOSE to become religious and you CHOOSE the title. Atheists chose not to take up a religion and therefore stay default--no title."

Unfortunately, the reality is that religion has been so dominant in the past that the word atheist is still necessary.

 

[Aurgelmir]

This isn't in the religious board for a reason, btw; as the thread will demonstrate, it isn't about religion.

OT: Atheism should not exist. Why?

"In fact, 'atheism' is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non-astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist.' We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

-- Sam Harris

That's one hell [/pun] of a point.

Thoughts?

Captcha: global warming

The Problem: You have to call it something. Atheists think don't believe in god. Nihilists don't believe in anything. These things are self-defeating lines of thinking, one way or another, but you still need a term for the people who think this way. It's not about whether Atheism is a religion or not...because it's not. It's a philosophy. Philosophy and religion collide constantly, so this comes as no surprise. As a Catholic myself, I'm of the opinion that there is a god. However, as a cynic, I also believe that god isn't always a nice guy. Life is funny that way.

Oh wow a christian that has actually read the bible instead of saying "god is good" for no reason! Respect to you sir.

That doesn't mean I agree with you
How is Atheism a Self-defeating line of thinking? Just curious to what you mean by that.

As for the word Atheism, I think it is a valid term. We need a term to easily say "I am not religious".

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Atheist: a person that believes that there is no god.

What's a Non-astrologist? A person that believes that there is no space?

No. Atheists don't believe there is no god. Atheists don't BELIEVE anything. See the above post.

Atheism isn't about belief--and that's the entire point. It's the absence of any belief at all. "No one calls a baby an Atheist." Babies don't believe there is no god. They don't believe anything.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

As for the word Atheism, I think it is a valid term. We need a term to easily say "I am not religious".

Why? Why should anyone have to label themselves NOT something? You don't have a name for NOT vegetarians, or NOT sky-divers, or NOT soccer players, or NOT racist, or NOT sexist. If you choose to take on something you choose a title. Not choosing to take something on doesn't give you a title--it means staying default. It's extremely obnoxious of a religious person to believe someone needs to say they DON'T believe in a god.

 

[Giftfromme]

Yeah it's an interesting point. Why do you need a word for someone who doesn't believe in religion. I mean, if you don't believe in it, why are you automatically a non believer? Why can't it be that you have no view on religion at all? The current definition makes it a binary choice, where you might have no view at all, and that kind of thing probably doesn't need labelling

 

[Hoplon]

Atheist: a person that believes that there is no god.

What's a Non-astrologist? A person that believes that there is no space?

No. Atheists don't believe there is no god. Atheists don't BELIEVE anything. See the above post.

Atheism isn't about belief--and that's the entire point. It's the absence of any belief at all. "No one calls a baby an Atheist." Babies don't believe there is no god. They don't believe anything.

They don't believe anything is more a nihilist thing, While I don't have belief in god, i do have it in things like humanism, the scientific method and the awesomeness of bacon.

 

[The Night Angel]

It doesn't matter, the word is useful when the topic of religion is brought up. And also, saying that people expect something one way or the other is silly, an atheist will assume atheism in those they meet, religious people assume religion in those they meet. So we can't generalize and say that people all assume one thing or another. But the term shouldn't exist, I mean, we have the word homophobia, but we have no word for people who are straight, but have no problem with homosexuality.
We don't have a word for people who don't believe in Thor or Odin or Zeus or Ra; and given a few more generations the term atheist will cease to exist, as atheism is on the rise.

 

[Aurgelmir]

As for the word Atheism, I think it is a valid term. We need a term to easily say "I am not religious".

Why? Why should anyone have to label themselves NOT something? You don't have a name for NOT vegetarians, or NOT sky-divers, or NOT soccer players, or NOT racist, or NOT sexist. If you choose to take on something you choose a title. Not choosing to take something on doesn't give you a title--it means staying default. It's extremely obnoxious of a religious person to believe someone needs to say they DON'T believe in a god.

As a lot of people has stated in this thread:

Religion is the dominant "way of life" and in a lot of places it is the expected state.
That means non-religious people are in a minority, and it is therefore helpful for a minority to have a term to easily describe their beliefs.

I agree with you that we shouldn't need a term for not religious. But as long as we are the minority we will need one.

If vegetarianism was the norm, then carnivore would probably be a term to describe meat eaters.

 

[Spambot 3000]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

Exactly. I always laugh my ass off when someone says "Atheists believe God doesn't exist." What don't people get? Atheism by definition means lack of belief--not disbelief. It means neutrality. It means absence. No one calls a baby an Atheist.

Your point is valid. Similarly, what do you call someone who doesn't believe the Holocaust happened? Many people would call that person and any others who don't believe in the Holocaust crazy. Because the majority of people know that it happened. But how does those minority being called crazy feel about that? They know it didn't happen. They don't want to be called crazy. And like you pointed out, this is what religion is doing. The non-believers get labelled because: Majority Rules.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the atheists are the crazy Holocaust deniers, I'm saying that the majority who believe label those who don't. Each side knows they're right. But at the end of the day, majority wins. That's why the astrologers don't get to label others. Majority of people don't believe in astrology. I just wanted to say that much. Apologies about the incorrect use of the word atheist. That was my mistake.

 

[Hoplon]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

Exactly. I always laugh my ass off when someone says "Atheists believe God doesn't exist." What don't people get? Atheism by definition means lack of belief--not disbelief. It means neutrality. It means absence. No one calls a baby an Atheist.

My personal favorite is to point out that by definition most people are Atheists of one kind or another, since how many of these people believe in Zeus or Thor or Bastet or Bhaal. All of which are gods.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

I just knew what this thread would be about when I read the title and saw the forum it was posted in.

What was the saying? "If each religion were a channel then atheism is turning the TV off."

 

[Scrustle]

I agree. But the term exists because unfortunately theism is still the norm. In some places at least.

 

[Phasmal]

Well it does /thread.

Seriously, we would have people identifying as `non-stamp collectors` if we had billboards about stamp collecting, if people in the past had been burned or tortured for not collecting stamps. If people showed up at your door asking if you have found stamp-collecting, if you got shunned for not doing so.

 

[BlueberryMUNCH]

This thread has been pretty much /'d.
Sugar-free
Lactose-free
Nut-free
There sometimes needs to be words and phrases to identify the absence of things.

Saying 'I'm atheist' is faster than saying 'I am not religious and don't believe there is a god'.

So what, you're saying the word 'theist' shouldn't exist?
Atheist means 'not theist' so...yeah.

The word does exist though, that's that. Don't use it if you think it's so idiotic.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

This isn't in the religious board for a reason, btw; as the thread will demonstrate, it isn't about religion.

OT: Atheism should not exist. Why?

"In fact, 'atheism' is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a 'non-astrologer' or a 'non-alchemist.' We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs."

-- Sam Harris

That's one hell [/pun] of a point.

Thoughts?

Captcha: global warming

The Problem: You have to call it something. Atheists think don't believe in god. Nihilists don't believe in anything. These things are self-defeating lines of thinking, one way or another, but you still need a term for the people who think this way. It's not about whether Atheism is a religion or not...because it's not. It's a philosophy. Philosophy and religion collide constantly, so this comes as no surprise. As a Catholic myself, I'm of the opinion that there is a god. However, as a cynic, I also believe that god isn't always a nice guy. Life is funny that way.

It's not really a philosophy either... It shouldn't suggest anything to you about a person other than an absence of one specific belief, which is the point...we don't give every word a negative, and we don't often have words that simply denote the absence of something.

With that said, I understand why it exists.

 

[lapan]

Atheism is the belief system of atheists.

There's no such thing as an Atheist belief system. It is the absence of a belief.

Exactly. I always laugh my ass off when someone says "Atheists believe God doesn't exist." What don't people get? Atheism by definition means lack of belief--not disbelief. It means neutrality. It means absence. No one calls a baby an Atheist.

My personal favorite is to point out that by definition most people are Atheists of one kind or another, since how many of these people believe in Zeus or Thor or Bastet or Bhaal. All of which are gods.

It's not the lack of belief in one god but in any god.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[5][6] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[6][7]

The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄèåïò (atheos), meaning "without god", used as a pejorative term applied to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

It?s simply a word for convenience, since in our society, Theism is the norm and everyone pretty much assumes by default that you must be a Theist.

Maybe there shouldn?t necessarily be a word for Atheists, and in a perfect world, there wouldn?t need to be. But, to paraphrase MovieBob, it?s not a perfect world. It?s a shitty world, and this kind of stuff still happened. Some people believe that heterosexuality isn?t the default or ?normal? sexuality, yet we still have labels like ?homosexuality?, ?bisexuality? and ?asexuality? to describe people that don?t fit the supposed majority.

Labels are labels. We humans need to put names to things, otherwise we go insane wondering how to categorize certain minorities.

 

[SextusMaximus]

It's an easy way of distinguishing yourself as a "non-believer" in religious arguments. The term should exist and does exist, for a reason.

 

[thylasos]

It?s simply a word for convenience, since in our society, Theism is the norm and everyone pretty much assumes by default that you must be a Theist.

I was going to say, yes, this only becomes an issue when it's a minority belief. (Whether it is or not in particular parts of the world is an entirely seperate issue; for the majority of the last couple of millenia of recorded history, practically everyone in Europe self-identified as a member of one religion or another).

And I accept that it's not a belief or religion. But it's a viewpoint on belief and religion, and there's not a specific word for that. We could refer inclusively to Religious and Atheistic viewpoints as people's various "Quoods", for lack of a better word, but it's much simpler just to refer to it on forms as Religious affiliation, even if you're defining a lack of one.