Atheism Shouldn't Exist

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utopid

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Grey Day for Elcia said:
utopid said:
Kordie said:
Ben Sutter said:
This is kind of a silly thread. Atheism is a word that describes the natural state of a human being; we're all born atheists. Saying that the word "atheist" shouldn't exist is like saying the word "exist" shouldn't exist... it's a self-defeating line of reasoning. Seriously, it's a word, just a damned word.
Lets throw a wrench in all this... Atheism is the belief that there is no god, theism is the belief that there is a god. A child born has no knowledge of the concept of god. Thus a child born does not believe there is no god, or believe there is one. Untill the concept is introduced he is neither a theist nor an atheist. It is only when the concept is added that one can make a choice and say yes there is, or no there isnt...

Think of it as schroedingers baby. he exists in neither and both forms untill the concept is introduced at which point his system collapses and he forms an opinion/belief.
This is the first post ive seen that has called grey out on this. His entire argument is based on a baby having a default blank setting. Which also means that baby must choose to be atheist, therefore we need a word for that choice.
My entire argument from the very first post has been that Atheism is the lack of a choice, not choosing not to believe. You are born with no religious agenda and no beliefs at all. You don't even know what religion is.
Yes, but then you cannot call yourself atheist. You choose to not believe, therefore you need something to describe the choice. Their isnt a word for what a baby believes because it is unneeded, a baby is not an athiest.
 

Kordie

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Grey Day for Elcia said:
Kordie said:
lots of space
And my point, again, is that the definition of Atheism should not be as you two describe. That is the debate that has existed for as long as theologians have existed. Some people like the definition you linked, and some people want it changed. Some people believe Atheism means knowing there is no god. Some people believe Atheism means having no reason to believe there is a god.

But I don't think the two of us arguing about it will achieve some sort of epiphany, so maybe we should leave it there. I don't think either of us are going to budge, lol.
I do agree that we should end it here. However I will make my closing statement to say this. Your argument has shifted fundamentaly from whether the word should exist to what the definition of the word is. This in itself shows the importance that that the word holds. So back to the origional question, yes Athiest should exist as a word as it allows us the means and tools to better define ourselves and our beliefs. Should the definition change? maybe. But untill the time that god can be (dis)proven, or religion becomes irrelevent, the word does need to be here.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Devoneaux said:
Grey Day for Elcia said:
Kordie said:
lots of space
And my point, again, is that the definition of Atheism should not be as you two describe. That is the debate that has existed for as long as theologians have existed. Some people like the definition you linked, and some people want it changed. Some people believe Atheism means knowing there is no god. Some people believe Atheism means having no reason to believe there is a god.

But I don't think the two of us arguing about it will achieve some sort of epiphany, so maybe we should leave it there. I don't think either of us are going to budge, lol.
Actually, your point was originally that it shouldn't be a thing as it was redundant, and has since been changing consistently.

My point was that your definition, and by extension, entire point, was incorrect.
Can you stop quoting me and arguing out of context? I was obviously saying that my it was my point from the start of the argument around the definition of Atheism, not that my the entire point of the thread was an argument about my definition of Atheism.

You continually fail to grasp the discussion and I think I'm going to have to ignore you to avoid further pointless argument.
 

DugMachine

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Because as everybody else has said, we need to shit to label ourselves. It's a whole lot easier to say "I'm Atheist" than it is to say "Sorry, I have no belief in any gods as there is no proof." And saying "None." and just leaving it at that makes you seem more like a dick than just saying atheist.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Spot1990 said:
Again, not all atheists actively believe there is no god(s). It can be passive. To be an atheist you don't have to believe there is no god(s) you just have to not believe there is.
Weren't you just arguing with me because I said Atheism is the lack of belief, not the belief of lack?

Or were you arguing that Atheism can mean that and also the belief of lack? In which casem ignore this post entirely.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Kordie said:
Your argument has shifted fundamentaly from whether the word should exist to what the definition of the word is.
I'm only arguing the definition because everyone else is arguing against my definition. In reality, I don't care. My point regarding the definition stands--that I believe Atheism refers to a lack of belief, not a belief of lacking--but I didn't want this to be about that. I wanted this to be about how insane it is that the world is so overcome with religion that we feel the need to label ourselves no religious.
 

Kordie

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utopid said:
Grey Day for Elcia said:
utopid said:
Kordie said:
Ben Sutter said:
This is kind of a silly thread. Atheism is a word that describes the natural state of a human being; we're all born atheists. Saying that the word "atheist" shouldn't exist is like saying the word "exist" shouldn't exist... it's a self-defeating line of reasoning. Seriously, it's a word, just a damned word.
Lets throw a wrench in all this... Atheism is the belief that there is no god, theism is the belief that there is a god. A child born has no knowledge of the concept of god. Thus a child born does not believe there is no god, or believe there is one. Untill the concept is introduced he is neither a theist nor an atheist. It is only when the concept is added that one can make a choice and say yes there is, or no there isnt...

Think of it as schroedingers baby. he exists in neither and both forms untill the concept is introduced at which point his system collapses and he forms an opinion/belief.
This is the first post ive seen that has called grey out on this. His entire argument is based on a baby having a default blank setting. Which also means that baby must choose to be atheist, therefore we need a word for that choice.
My entire argument from the very first post has been that Atheism is the lack of a choice, not choosing not to believe. You are born with no religious agenda and no beliefs at all. You don't even know what religion is.
Yes, but then you cannot call yourself atheist. You choose to not believe, therefore you need something to describe the choice. Their isnt a word for what a baby believes because it is unneeded, a baby is not an athiest.
Last post here... maybe... Found a word for it, Ignosticism
The term "ignosticism" is a play on the words "ignorance" and "gnosticism." A direct meaning of ignosticism would mean something like, "ignorance of god(s)," meaning the ignostic doesn't know anything about gods, or doesn't know what the term "god" means
http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/Ignosticism
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Devoneaux said:
Nobody else sees it this way because we all own a dictionary. Get it?
Nobody else sees it my way? Did you not read the OP? You know, where I quoted the neuroscientest who wants the word Atheist gone?

Yeah. Nobody. lamo.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Spot1990 said:
Grey Day for Elcia said:
Spot1990 said:
Again, not all atheists actively believe there is no god(s). It can be passive. To be an atheist you don't have to believe there is no god(s) you just have to not believe there is.
Weren't you just arguing with me because I said Atheism is the lack of belief, not the belief of lack?

Or were you arguing that Atheism can mean that and also the belief of lack? In which casem ignore this post entirely.
No, I agree with your definition. It's just that I believe it's one of the definitons. Personally I describe myself as atheist because it's easier than explaining the concept of existential nihilism and humanistic naturalism to people. I used to consider myself anti-theist but that changed when I realised I'm only against theism in certain ways.
I'm not against theism, either. I'm against extremists and people who condemn others for non-criminal activities (like loving someone of your gender). I used to hate Christianity with a fervent rage, but I since realized that Jesus seems like an okay dude, god or not. Just some people who follow him are assholes.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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Devoneaux said:
Grey Day for Elcia said:
Devoneaux said:
atheistic religion
That's a misnomer. Buddhism is Buddhism. Pantheism is Pantheism. Atheism is Atheism. You are now yourself misusing the word.
Atheism is not a religion, it is an attribute held by other belief systems.
You are using the wrong word. Again. Atheism is not an attribute; it's a belief separate from religions. But hey, if you think a Buddhist is an Atheist, you go ahead and see how far that goes for you, lol.

I on the other hand am off to bed with before I get told off for the screen keeping my partner up, lol. You don't want that rage o.o

Nighty, night, sweetie <3