Atheism Vs. Anti-Theism

[Labyrinth]

Spoiler: Khell

Die hard Anti-Theist here. Not the randomly-pick-a-fight kind, I like to think I'm as open minded as how you describe true atheists.

I hate religion. I think it is mostly a crutch for weak willed people, but it does have its uses from time to time. My problem with faith stems not from the belief in a higher power, but in the belief in all the dogma surrounding each religion.

On its own, the whole love everybody aspects of most religions is a good thing, and I have no problem with people who simply try to live an honest and kind life. I don't go picking fights with people like this, it's the bible belts, fundamentalists, and religious activists I abhor. More though than I hate the hardline religious nuts, I actually have more loathing for the middle-ground people. The ones who believe they have to live by the bible's rules, or by what the church says. Not hardcore like the fundies, but the kind of person who will tell you they can't work on a Sunday because it's a sin.

Why would I hate these people? They aren't as dangerous as fundamentalists, they aren't shoving it in my face like evangelists... It's because they are SHEEP. It's one thing to take the lessons of a book like the bible and apply them to your life, it's a whole other thing to follow the rules as laid out. A book written over two thousand years in the past by multiple anonymous sources, translated multiple times throughout the ages, and filled with propaganda in each revision... You're going to follow THAT as if it's the word of God? Grow a fucking brain.

God does not care what you do/don't eat. God does not hold any day of the week as holy. God does not consider sex a sin. These are all things a man has written in to suit his own purpose. The Mormons are the most shining example of his bullshittery, the Book of Mormon being the work of a normal man with no more connection to God than any other living being, an elaborate lie to shape a society in his preferred style. I'm not saying you can't take away some good wholesome values from the Book of Mormon, or the Bible, or event the Koran... But to live your life by its scriptures is fucking pathetic.

So I am an anti-theist. I don't believe in God, I don't believe in Religion, but I don't believe that means we should do away with all the good it can bring even if it is a falsehood... But I DO believe that you shouldn't go too far with faith, and I fight any attempt to turn people into sheep.

One phrase: "Fuck sheeple." And yes. Fuck them all. With a rake.

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

I think It's kind of sweet how she cares about me in that way. I am a little insulted that she thinks I'm going to hell though...

Just popping by to explain your friend's point of view a bit. Specifically in my religion, Southern Baptist, you'll find a ton of evangelists. As a matter of fact, you can't swing a cat without hitting one. The core of evangelism, especially how it's taught around here, is as follows:
Those who do not accept Jesus are going to hell.
That's it. You can be the best person in the world, most Godly, and truest-to-the-core "best person ever," but if they don't accept Jesus, off to Hell.

The issue with this, obviously, is that it leverages you against being non-evangelical. The root is "If you care about anyone at all, convert them so they don't burn in hell." So it's working against the compassion/benefit teachings. So, unless you evangelize and convert every single soul you care about, before they die, then they're going to Hell.
And it's all your fault.
I hope you feel bad about yourself, "Christian," you just condemned your loved one to Hell. So go evangelize, or else you're hell-binding them.

So, it's a sign she cares, and that she's easily bent by teachings. It's shameful, but that's how some religious leaders are. Frankly, these kinds of people are no better than belligerent anti-theists. Manipulation isn't the way to go about being a good person...

No matter what religion you subscribe to.

EDIT
This would've made an awesome 666th post... Also, when did I get over 800?

 

[OverlordSteve]

I don't know what to classify myself religion-wise, I believe that there's a god, but only because I don't believe that everything just exploded into being. (As awesome as that is.)

 

[Flunk]

Yeah, this is all we need. More stupid labels. Various people believe different things, just because one holds certain beliefs doesn't mean that we need to create a new "category" for every single group. Sure Atheism doesn't imply that you try to force others to agree with you, but it doesn't mean we need a new label for people that do. The world is not black and white, it's all shades of grey.

To clarify I am technically is agnostic as in there is no proof god(s) exist(s), so they probably don't but to totally discount the idea without any proof is just as bad and believes religion is a bad idea. But I generally have to describe myself as an atheist because my beliefs hing toward the no god side. Labels like this are nothing but devicive.

 

[Amnestic]

I have learned never to bring up the topic of religion to any of my friends if I know they aren't athiests like me, I made that mistake in elementary school and ended up getting shunned for it.

Inquire if jokes at religion's expense are okay first. Make jokes second. Some of the religious people I've met are perfectly happy laughing at jokes I make about it, because they're just that: jokes.

Some are anal about it though, which is why you have to ask first >_>

all I did was tell them I was an athiest....

they probably fall into the anal category then, in which case fuck em, not worth your time.

 

[vampyricvoid]

Wow, I, too am very outnumbered.
I am not atheist, but rather follow my own set of beliefs. I was raised Christian but I find much of Christianity to be ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I believe in many of the same values (helping others), however, I believe that anything is possible. I strongly lean towards polytheism because it just seems to make more sense than monotheism (why, if there is one all-loving god, is there famine and sorrow?). I do accept the possibility of there being one god or no upper beings also. I guess you could call me agnostic. However, I always love to chat about religion and the different possibilities, so long as others aren't so cocky that they think that there is only one strict possibility and that they are always right. Great topic, btw.

 

[Nugoo]

I'm definitely an atheist, but I don't think anti-theists are as bad as Jobz makes them out to be. As far as I know, while atheism is the lack of belief in a higher power, anti-theism is the belief that there is no higher-power. Ass-holes of either type are just that: ass-holes. You get them in every belief system.

 

[Beowulf DW]

Wow, I, too am very outnumbered.
I am not atheist, but rather follow my own set of beliefs. I was raised Christian but I find much of Christianity to be ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I believe in many of the same values (helping others), however, I believe that anything is possible. I strongly lean towards polytheism because it just seems to make more sense than monotheism (why, if there is one all-loving god, is there famine and sorrow?). I do accept the possibility of there being one god or no upper beings also. I guess you could call me agnostic. However, I always love to chat about religion and the different possibilities, so long as others aren't so cocky that they think that there is only one strict possibility and that they are always right. Great topic, btw.

Pretty much how I feel. I don't like hanging around people who are so entrenched in their beliefs that they refuse to change. As the Great Billy Joel once said, "Go ahead with your own life. Leave me alone."

 

[Zeke109]

Im not really atheist, I am undecided. Is there a fancy-pants word for that?

 

[savandicus]

I think your problem is Jobz is that you've been pretty unfortunate with the chirstians that you've met, as a christian myself when i read the bible i see that what Jesus did was love those who did not believe. He spent time with the protestutes and the tax collectors (tax collectors were considerably worse standing in those days) and not with the 'righteous'. If my non christian friends ask me about God/Morality/other related stuff then i'm happy to share my faith but everyone has to choose what they believe or not. One of my best friends is a very strong atheist and i've had many wonderful discussions with him and 2 other friends who believe it would be nice if there were a god but wouldnt specify more than that, which in my opinion been very enjoyable.

I personally do get annoyed at anyone who is close minded about faith, whether its for or against it. I would consider myself to be quite a scientifically minded person, having done 2 sciences and 2 maths for a level and now doing maths at uni, i do need logical thinking which i do apply to my faith. If someone brings up an arguement that i dont have an answer for i do seek one out and try to the best of my ability to answer it.

One of the most annoying things i've found is people who judge me because of my faith before even talking to me, and also christians who judge others when it specifically says in the bible not to judge other people, that is for God alone.

Ignorance and arrogance are found in both believers and non believers which is something that no matter what your own believe you will find in other people. I personally think that if anyone has seriously considered the world around them and really thought about what it would mean for them if their was or was not a God then the conclusion they come to is a perfectly valid opinion.

However as a Christian i still try to offer explination and oppertunities to learn more about my faith to the people i know because i believe that they need to be forgiven because it is a matter of life or death, heaven or hell, no middle ground. It may be a harsh message but it is every persons right to choose which one they want to pick or else we wouldnt have been given free will.

Well thats atleast been an attempt to share my beliefs, its probably nice and incoherent but to put my beliefs in a nice simple setence. Christians should aim to imitate Jesus and Jesus loved sinners, eternal life is not earned but is a gift of grace, you cannot earn your way into heaven, nor can you be too bad not to be forgiven. By loving your fellow man and respecting their opinions is the only way to expect your own believes to be respected, and once someone respects your believes then they can actually learn and make a reasoned decision for themselfs about it.

On a side note, if you want to reply please read the entire post before you do.

On another side note for those saying there is evidence to disprove or prove God, your just being silly, either the universe came around by chance or it didnt, neither can be proved by an scientific experiment, reasoning or anything else. To say that belief in god or believe in nothing is to be idiotic is an idiotic statement

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

?h???S????o??????±?µ???¢?¯??¢A??º??ç?P?`???b?v??????¦?ª??­A??

Im not really atheist, I am undecided. Is there a fancy-pants word for that?

Uh... Assuming this doesn't change, they'll likely be some spam-prevention falling down from the nearest mod.

Otherwise... What?

How weird... Agnostic is the word you're looking for.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

I'm an agnostic can I join the party? (For those that don?t know being agnostic means im basically undecided on the actual nature of a God/force/being, dont think it can be proved or disproved {thats what "faith" means} and have my own beliefs). I subscribe to a pick and choose type belief system mainly based around Christianity (boils down to all religions are but different paths to the same God/positive being) but it means I get preached too by both sides. Atheists (although I know learn from the OP that they are actually anti-theists thanks for that clarity) try to prove that there is not a God and fundamentalist Christians (haven't really any experience of other religions) try to convince me that their God is the true one. Personally I have found they are both as bad as each other for belittling other?s beliefs and being very condescending.

Christians- Your commandments state that you should love one another regardless of race, creed (read: religious beliefs) or colour so why do you feel the need to convert people to your belief system? You believe God made free will and so if someone uses their free will to belief something different why are they not allowed to? You believe God is forgiving and all knowing so surely he can see why someone chooses not to believe in God (for lack of an appropriate gender neutral word) and forgive them for it? Judge not lest ye be judged; Judgement is mine and mine alone sayeth the lord etc, etc Besides someone not believing in something does not mean that thing does not exist I could chose to not believe in DNA but that doesn?t mean it stops existing (I know I used something that can be proven as an example don?t flame me for it but I thought it illustrated my point).

Atheists/Anti-Theists- Let me start by saying that there is no other way of describing militant atheists than spiteful. If someone if happy believing something as long as they aren?t shoving it down your throat why would you go out of your way to change their world view? It?s like telling a young child Santa Claus doesn?t exist just to hurt them (note not being condescending to theists here I am one remember). I have thought about this quite a bit and an anti-theist is basically a person who has decided life is shit and wants everyone to be as miserable as they are-misery likes company and all. Do not get me wrong if someone decides that you need to be converted to whatever religion you should consider it an attack on your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) but try to stay out of a playground style im smarter debate just try to convince the other person you?ve decided and thanks but no.

Wow that?s a long post and apologies if im preaching to the converted (woo I got a lot of sayings in this) but flame wars between theists and anti-theists bug me. Also as an after thought I don't believe that creationism and evolutionism are mutually exclusive and have a hard time understanding how people come to this conclusion someone elighten me? As far as i'm aware the bible says 7 days correct but doesn't state (or imply) that these days are consecutive? This sentance here is purely so I don't end on a question as I consider that bad form.

 

[Zeke109]

?h???S????o??????±?µ???¢?¯??¢A??º??ç?P?`???b?v??????¦?ª??­A??

Im not really atheist, I am undecided. Is there a fancy-pants word for that?

Uh... Assuming this doesn't change, they'll likely be some spam-prevention falling down from the nearest mod.

Otherwise... What?

Thanks. Besides, I tried to post it in japanese, but...it didnt work, oh, well....
(Wa-Wa-Wa-waaaaaaa)
How weird... Agnostic is the word you're looking for.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

I'm generally an athiest, but I tend to resist when people try and tell me about the 'savior' or whatever they're into. Then I guess I spout anti-theism. I get annoyed when people talk at me when I've made my feelings very clear.

I agree with this although I also agree (to a certain point) with Khell.
I would not go so far as to say I hate the "sheeple" more that I pity them for not being able to think for themselves. Those religious people who choose to interpret the holy writings (whatever they may be) for themselves and not take them literal, those I can have respect for since they have shown that they are free thinkers. I might not agree with them but be that as i may.

I usually prefer to stay out of arguments about religion because most of the time those who wants to discuss religion are certain they are right and will not even try to see it from a different point of view. They might even (read: usually) have started the discussion with the purpose of trying to convert me and that will put me in a almost fanatical anti-theist bash-religion mode, creationists do this automatically.

Mostly though I do not mind if people are religious as long as they keep it to themselves, their homes and religious houses/places as well as stay out of science! (this is directed towards the creationists)

 

[Good morning blues]

I guess I come from a strange place because religion has simply never been a party of my life; occasionally I come across a Christian or two in Vancouver, but they're always the "yeah I believe in god, let's go to the pub and fornicate" sort. Which is good; my ideal world is one where everybody lets everybody else live their life however they want to.

On the Internet, where there are Americans, I tend not to mention that I'm an atheist, because of the hostile reactions you're bound to get, and the hostile counter-reactions you're bound to get from the anti-theists. I think both sides are retarded. The evangelists are stupid because, according to their own religion, God gave me free will just so that I could do this sort of thing; the anti-theists are retarded because all they're ever doing is starting conflict - nobody will ever convince anybody that their religion is right or wrong unless they're already questioning it. Even the "RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE SHEEP" argument is stupid because I could say all of the same things about capitalism and the majority of them would probably defend it to the death.

One guy posted about how we don't need more labels; that guy is wrong. Atheism is a response to religion; in retaliation, religious power has attempted to label atheism as violently reactionary. While those people do exist, it's perfectly legitimate for people like me to try to distance ourselves from people like that.

 

[Alex_P]

Anti-theism, while commonly confused with atheism, is an entirely different thing. Anti-theists do share the same lack-of-belief that atheists do in that they do not believe there is any God or higher power of any kind, but they are not as open minded or tolerant as we atheists are. A question for any religious person reading this: Have you ever had someone who claimed to be an atheist talk down to you because you have religious beliefs, or even attempt to convert you to atheist by arguing with you about your faith?

This is not an atheist, this is an anti-theist. Someone who is completely against the belief in a higher power (Theism) and who takes pride in disrespecting and looking down upon religious people as if they were an inferior, less enlightened form of human.

"We atheists"? Baloney!

Atheism is the adherence to a single existential claim (roughly, "there is no god"), not an entire worldview complete with a little code of tolerance (or intolerance, for that matter).

An "anti-theist" is an atheist. You are also an atheist. You don't get to own all of "atheism" any more than some "anti-theist" does.

-- Alex

 

[Aries_Split]

Khell, I read your post, and I was wondering how you feel about Buddhism? Buddhists don't believe in any Dogma, and most I know are creationists.

I was an Atheist/Agnostic for most of my life, but recently converted to Buddhism.

I received loads of flack growing up for my "Devil worshiping ways".

It's frustrating, but it's a product of a narrow-minded society unwilling to change it's mind.

 

[Labyrinth]

One phrase: "Fuck sheeple." And yes. Fuck them all. With a rake.

Just to be clear, we are talking about using the wide, pointy end of the rake right? It's just not the same using the handle, even if it causes splinters.

Yep. The rusted, pointy bit.

 

[Random Argument Man]

Is your Anti-theism is some kind of synonym of Nihilism?

Note* I emphasize the words "some kind".