Atheists and Theists are both right

[Klagermeister]

You make excellent points and use philosophy as opposed to scientific viewpoints.
Well done, sir. Psychology is always subjective and thus cannot be proven wrong.

Whether God exists or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is whether you're doing the right thing.

 

[Goldbling]

You poor poor soul, I will never murder non-believers, just you.

Another hardline moderate; this one talking about killing somebody for their lack of respect.

Lol, and you don't get sarcasm either, your just such a cute whatever extremist arnt 'cha?

I get sarcasm when its done well. What does that tell you?

You don't get my sarcasm, you must only get that atheist sarcasm

 

[Duh]

i say their both wrong

 

[caross73]

People can be worthy of respect, beliefs deserve no quarter. They don't have feelings. And if you can't distinguish the two, you're the one with the silly belief.

Beliefs don't have a skin color. I don't need to tolerate a belief, only the person holding it. Part of what I see as wrong in the world today is the incredible sense of entitlement people have when they are being stupid. That all ideas are created equal. So we get kids coming out of college who think that they can argue all the answers on the test until they get an 'A', its all relative, and then find out that the real world doesn't care how special a snowflake your instructors thought you were.

Skin colours don't have feelings either. You don't need to tolerate skin colour, only the person with the skin...

Explain the difference?

You are bigoted, and just like the true bigot you can't see it.

Incidentally, respecting a person means not tearing beliefs they hold dear to shreds. If you don't understand that is a part of respect then you are possibly sociopathic as well.

Cuddly_tomato
If I came off as trying to force my beliefs onto others, I'm sorry. I thought that since the discussion kind of moved onto talking about beliefs I would post my thoughts. I agree with your last post religous people shouldn't be bothered about their beliefs and should be left in peace to practice their religion, however I still stand by my original post that their beliefs shouldn't be respected (above other beliefs, as they seem to be now).

Above other beliefs, no. Remember though that people hold those beliefs. They are not individual concepts that you can seperate from the people that hold them. You can't call Christianty a delusion without implying Christians are delusional. Approach the subject respectfully with the knowledge that nobody truly knows what the truth is, and that there are good and smart people on all sides of the discussion, and you can't go wrong.

And you're thin skinned, and also bigoted against anyone with conviction. Respecting a person means PRECISELY tearing their ideas to shreds, if you can. I was not put here to pay lip service to your stupid ideas. If you want to be respected for your ideas, they better be good ones. Otherwise, keep them to yourself.

You have a very warped view of respect. If I respect you, I don't let you win at racquetball. I play against you with everything I've got.

You're implying that ideas are part of the person, like their skin. They aren't. You have a choice which ideas to hold, and whether to open them up to criticism.

Honestly, if religion stayed in the home, I'd never say a word against it. Too bad every religion thinks everyone needs to hear their stupid ideas. That makes it fair game.

 

[caross73]

Transendental realm/plain = Not of this universe.
Science = workings of this universe

Therefore science cannot be used to prove or disprove the existance of a God. You're either right, or wrong, pure 50/50 luck.

There are millions of potential Gods. How do you pick between Zeus and Zoroaster?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

And you're thin skinned, and also bigoted against anyone with conviction. Respecting a person means PRECISELY tearing their ideas to shreds, if you can. I was not put here to pay lip service to your stupid ideas. If you want to be respected for your ideas, they better be good ones. Otherwise, keep them to yourself.

You have a very warped view of respect. If I respect you, I don't let you win at racquetball. I play against you with everything I've got.

Beliefs aren't a game. It is time you understood that.

You're implying that ideas are part of the person, like their skin. They aren't. You have a choice which ideas to hold, and whether to open them up to criticism.

Religion is a choice? Ok, then I want you to earnestly believe in god for 15 minutes. Not just say that you do, but actually believe.

Beliefs are deeply held convictions and in many cases it is a part of who they are. Whether atheist, Buddhist, Christian or Muslim. I think you really need to think about this more.

Honestly, if religion stayed in the home, I'd never say a word against it. Too bad every religion thinks everyone needs to hear their stupid ideas. That makes it fair game.

Says the person who has done nothing on this forum except post anti-religious edicts.

In the past week we have had "atheist bible", "worst idea of mankind", "catholics are pedophiles", and "there is probably no god so don't worry". I can't remember a single thread preaching religion on this forum ever.

 

[caross73]

And you're thin skinned, and also bigoted against anyone with conviction. Respecting a person means PRECISELY tearing their ideas to shreds, if you can. I was not put here to pay lip service to your stupid ideas. If you want to be respected for your ideas, they better be good ones. Otherwise, keep them to yourself.

You have a very warped view of respect. If I respect you, I don't let you win at racquetball. I play against you with everything I've got.

Beliefs aren't a game. It is time you understood that.

HAHA! Thats rich. What are you going to do, come over and beat me up because I don't understand that beliefs are SERIOUS BUSINESS?

You're implying that ideas are part of the person, like their skin. They aren't. You have a choice which ideas to hold, and whether to open them up to criticism.

Religion is a choice? Ok, then I want you to earnestly believe in god for 15 minutes. Not just say that you do, but actually believe.

No thanks, I choose not to. I believed once. I decided to stop. If you could make a compelling argument, I might reconsider.

Beliefs are deeply held convictions and in many cases it is a part of who they are. Whether atheist, Buddhist, Christian or Muslim. I think you really need to think about this more.

Honestly, if religion stayed in the home, I'd never say a word against it. Too bad every religion thinks everyone needs to hear their stupid ideas. That makes it fair game.

Says the person who has done nothing on this forum except post anti-religious edicts.

In the past week we have had "atheist bible", "worst idea of mankind", "catholics are pedophiles", and "there is probably no god so don't worry". I can't remember a single thread preaching religion on this forum ever.

Hey, I didn't make the threads and you can't blame me for the fact that religion is unpopular among the smart folks. I don't walk up to someone and say "you believe in God, you're an idiot". I wait for them to try to save me. THEN I tell them.

The only reason I argue with you is because you've got the same stupid idea in your head. That ideas are important in and of themselves, and they are all beautiful little snowflakes that should be nurtured and tiptoed around.

 

[Captain Blackout]

I really love it when people like this guy go all philosophical. It's really the only proof you'll ever need that there is a reason why proper philosophers are supposed to get years of education before anyone takes them even remotely seriously. We have a name for this kind of thing where I come from, we call it "pub philosophy." It means that you're basically randomly spewing out a bunch of crap that makes sense only to someone who's completely drunk.

Basically, that's what we have here. It takes a really special kind of person to start a discussion off by saying "I'm a Taoist Christian most days. I'm also a fundamentalist Christian and a misanthropic atheist." It also takes a huge willingness to take mutually exclusive ideas and obfuscate and butcher and misrepresent them horribly, all to make them fit together like some kind of mutated, slime-oozing Frankenstein of theology - and then be insulted when people call you out on it.

I think this post will do nicely to take a swing at all the detractors in general:

1. I have years of education both formal and personal.
2. I am a baptized Christian, was baptized in a fundamentalist church, and have a huge amount of respect for some fundamentalists. I can certainly share in idealogies and rituals with them.
3. I've studied more then enough science to recognize that almost every question has a physical answer. Some of the few that don't: Is there a God (not the fatherly Moses figure, that one has a quick answer), do we have souls that are somehow transcendental to our physical beings, is karma simply another word for fate or is there a spiritual component (yes karma can be defined atheistically go ask any philosophical Buddhist.)
4. Somewhere between atheism and Christianity I found a happy medium for myself in Taoism. I've read eastern philosophy extensively and have at least a decent grasp of Taoism. I've studied bushido on a personal level. I sucked at it due to a complete lack of the internal determination needed but I learned a lot about what it takes to completely step outside my own thinking patterns and embrace another culture.
5. I am absolutely sick and tired of atheists and theists bitching at each other without any real attempt whatsoever to understand each other. Over 1000 years of murders perpetrated by so called Christians balanced against Mao's murder of Taoists and Buddhists in the name of his atheistic "Religion is poison." It's enough to make me decide the planet can f' off (hence the misanthropic atheism)
6. But no, I keep trying because this is my passion. Even when whack jobs tell me I'm nuts without a clue where I'm really coming from.
7. I wasn't insulted until I read the post I just quoted. Then I remembered the whack jobs will always be out there and got over it.
8. Atheism -> Existentialism. 4 existential concerns, per existential psychotherapy: Death, isolation, meaninglessness, existential freedom. I realized something really creepy one day. With the possible exception of death we are stuck with these concerns even if God exists.
9. If Lao Tzu and Jesus are both right (which I see as very possible...not probable, just possible) then God can both exist and not exist. Whether or not God is there for any one of us, or whether we choose agnosticism we are still making a choice and God is honoring it.

This was supposed to be fun for a night for me. Pub philosophy with a heavy background in various schools of thought. I'm sorry I abandoned my own thread, those who were interested deserved better. Unfortunately real life came and dragged me off by the testes.

 

[edinflames]

I can prove god exists right now: The Platypus.
Yes. Yes. And yes. (I just preemptively answered all your questions in reverse order.)

So God is an omnipotent prankster hiding humorous animals around the world for us to find? I guess that's why 'he' created marijuana and republicans...

I think your evidence comes up a little short of proving this theory.

Why wouldn't he be? Think about evolution.
Think about all it's principles. We evolve, to fill a niche.
What niche or evolutionary purpose does a platypus serve? Or a girrafe? Or a turtle?

I remain unconvinced. Doubt is my friend.

The idea that everything has evolved to fulfill some kind of 'purpose' is misleading. Evolution is entirely purposeless, there is no established 'role' that an animal is supposed to fill in nature, there is only the incredibly complex symbiotic relationship that envelopes every animal, plant or bug on this planet.

If you take the view that we are the most important thing on earth therefore everything else is designed for us to use in some way then its hard to imagine what we might use a spitting Cobra for or why God would have put it there...unless we go back the prankster who likes to hide deadly animals as a kind of joke. If everything is just here for us to use then the reason the ancestors of modern Alligators and Crocodiles evolved during the dinosaur period was so that 240 million years later we could use their skin to make shoes.

If you take the view that everything has to have a 'purpose' in nature then you might as well go all the way and declare yourself a believer in 'Intelligent Design'.

Again, if the world was designed specifically for us as God's children then why did god wait the best part of 4 Billion years before he decided to 'make' us and let us loose? Do you think that the dinosaurs were his favorite toys before Satan's meteorite f*cked all that up?

Its this simple: There is this world, there are plants and animals on this world all struggling to survive and after billions of years of struggle an animal that called itself 'homo sapiens' came into being. This animal was so amazing that it alone of all the animals on earth was capable of studying, recording and passing on empirical knowledge.

There is no creator, we imagined 'him'. There is no purpose, except for the purpose we give ourselves.

 

[edinflames]

Oh fun fun a prideful Atheist who believes he's right!
The fact that you are here to say that theists are wrong proves that you are wrong

No, it doesn't. That's the kind of logic which argues that those scientists who choose to be atheists (something like 90% of them) are only doing so because they are sinners that deny the word of god, as opposed to drawing the logical conclusion from the mountains of evidence which supports their (un)belief. ^_^

If you have any non-biblical information that disproves my above statement I would love to hear it. I really would. That's the difference between you and me, I want someone to prove me wrong, because being proven wrong lifts one to a higher state of enlightenment.

Edit: So there's your challenge God Squad! Prove to me without referring to the Bible why I should worship the Abrahamic-Christian (Jehovah) conception of god.

 

[edinflames]

Oh fun fun a prideful Atheist who believes he's right!
The fact that you are here to say that theists are wrong proves that you are wrong

No, it doesn't. That's the kind of logic which argues that those scientists who choose to be atheists (something like 90% of them) are only doing so because they are sinners that deny the word of god. ^_^

No, thats the kind of logic that says that to be a painting there must be a painter or there is music so there is an artist not a random explosion made into to music.
You obviously can't read or never learned how to put sentences together in the right order because I don't remember even typing the word sin anywhere in that post or implying That you are a sinner only that you're wrong and prideful.

I hate to break it to you chum, but Music and Art are created by humans. The bible was written by humans. I didn't say you called me a sinner, only that it follows the same logic...you know what? f*ck it.

Prove to me without referring to the bible why I should worship your god and I will do so.