ATHEISM IS A BELIEF: It requires just as much faith, if not more so, than does any other religion. Atheism is not a lack of religion or belief, it is a relatively new one that makes men the gods and rejects the idea of a higher power (other than possibly "fate" or "luck"). The sheer odds of evolution (think about it... two animals "happen" to evolve, and both a male and female "happen" to evolve in the same place, the mutation "happens" to be beneficial (we see true examples of those all the time, don't we?), and the two animals evolve when they are both willing and able to breed with each other. And don't get me started on the very beginning.) require more faith than does, say, Hinduism (which completely rejects this reality). As for bringing up kids... I was raised in a Christian home and am not often on fire for it... it does become a little too standard, but what's more important is that they are given the truth.
As long as it's with a trustworthy freind that's fine but I'm not driving them there. Well I might but wouldn't going to a church feel akward if you're atheist? I always get irritating comments like "you'll see the light" or "I hope you come around" or my all time favourite "God's gonna get you for that!" but I digress. I suppose I could pick them up if they went with a freind my mom used to let me go with my freind church fairly often even though my family never has.
"A fair judge wouldn't tarnish everyone from a family, street, town or country or race for the acts of two individuals from centuries ago.
Assuming the bible to be correct that is."
Does anyone on this thread know the first thing about the bible????????
Geez. They say atheists are the smarter ones... Christians are basically forced nowadays to study the other side of the argument (even from the Christian's somewhat biased point of view) but atheists don't know the first thing about Christianity.
DUDE. THE WHOLE POINT OF IT IS THAT HE DIDNT!!!!!!
I agree with you entirely Pimppeter! Not only is it a parents right to give their kid a religion to at least start out as, but if a kid says their atheist, their an idiot too.
Atheists listen here! You're all unfounded imbeciles! And if you say to not raise a kid with a religion, that's just like trying to convert kids to your religion. So you're all hypocrites too! Stop trying to force your non religion on others!
ATHEISM IS A BELIEF: It requires just as much faith, if not more so, than does any other religion. Atheism is not a lack of religion or belief, it is a relatively new one that makes men the gods and rejects the idea of a higher power (other than possibly "fate" or "luck"). The sheer odds of evolution (think about it... two animals "happen" to evolve, and both a male and female "happen" to evolve in the same place, the mutation "happens" to be beneficial (we see true examples of those all the time, don't we?), and the two animals evolve when they are both willing and able to breed with each other. And don't get me started on the very beginning.) require more faith than does, say, Hinduism (which completely rejects this reality). As for bringing up kids... I was raised in a Christian home and am not often on fire for it... it does become a little too standard, but what's more important is that they are given the truth.
Sigghhhh...... I don;t normally bother with this sort of thing, but what the hey. this kind of talk about evolution only proves that you don't what the bleep your are talking about. If you are going to argue over scientific theory, at least take the time to learn about. Here is a link, to some basic information. You can find a lot more than this on the internet:
Does mention that evolution doesn't explain ambiogenesis (origins of life), but just add "...yet". You probably will not read this, but I thought I'd try to spread a little joy around. I'm sure Dawkin's new book will explain it much better, and anyone can safely read it as it not an atheism book.
"A fair judge wouldn't tarnish everyone from a family, street, town or country or race for the acts of two individuals from centuries ago.
Assuming the bible to be correct that is."
Does anyone on this thread know the first thing about the bible????????
Geez. They say atheists are the smarter ones... Christians are basically forced nowadays to study the other side of the argument (even from the Christian's somewhat biased point of view) but atheists don't know the first thing about Christianity.
DUDE. THE WHOLE POINT OF IT IS THAT HE DIDNT!!!!!!
"A fair judge wouldn't tarnish everyone from a family, street, town or country or race for the acts of two individuals from centuries ago.
Assuming the bible to be correct that is."
Does anyone on this thread know the first thing about the bible????????
Geez. They say atheists are the smarter ones... Christians are basically forced nowadays to study the other side of the argument (even from the Christian's somewhat biased point of view) but atheists don't know the first thing about Christianity.
DUDE. THE WHOLE POINT OF IT IS THAT HE DIDNT!!!!!!
a) to get the idiots off his back who thought they he was going to send all of the Romans into oblivion (not entirely relevant anyways)
b) referenced out of context, and true in this very age (this actually has a lot to do with this thread's (mostly forgotten) main idea: Christianity in only some members of a family. This was said to keep lukewarm Christians out by showing that Christianity is an all-or-nothing choice -- not a simple part of your identity (I believe this was in the same sermon as the idea that one had to "take up your cross and follow me" to be saved). (and, again, somewhat irrelevant)
c) To be honest, I haven't heard of this verse (can you reference it? I'm genuinely interested). I do know Jesus predicted a Jewish rebellion that did take place not long after his death, but he encouraged his followers to not take part, which saved them from the terrible death all the rebels faced (despite an interesting amount of success). (and again, irrelevant to my discussion).
It seems to me that you think I was still discussing the peace issue... I wasn't. I was discussing the fact that God is a harsh, but fair, judge.
Thank you for an intelligent response and for displaying some knowledge of the bible. I love online debating.
Atheism is a belief. Looking from the outside it seems like a religion, sometimes, because of how much an atheist holds on to that belief; much like the crazy Christians that come to my university to tell us homosexuals, unmarried women in pants and not in the kitchen not expecting a child, mastrubators... etc are going to hell even if they are religious and believe in God. You can give them examples on how they are wrong but it will never matter. So why would anyone raise their children in an environment that rigidly ensures that child will not care to know anything about God and when confronted by equally rigid religious fanatic peers; it ends bad it's been on the news. The best thing to do is to teach children tolerance and it is up to the parents to teach them the humanistic way or the religious way because what matters is how you treat people here and now. Forget about everything else peace is all that matters.
Do Atheist parents have the right to force Atheism on their children?
personally i wont force anything on the kid. i just wont talk/teach him/her about religion until he reaches highschool...
see the difference is in order to get a kid to not be atheist you have to teach him about religion. while raising him normally w/o putting effort in religious education is NOT forcing something on to him.
How many of you will raise your child not to belive in a god?
I would hope my kid would have common sense and choose the correct belief. however if he/she insists on believing in a god, as long as he doesnt go try converting ppl to the religion i dont care.
How many of you will raise your child with knowledge of God? (Without making fun of it while you teach it.)
i woudlnt teach it.
How many of you will take your children to church?
depends, what kind of church? id take my kids to like notredame and famoust beautiful churches, not for the belief but because of the art.
How many of you will raise your children to make their own decission, like you had?
they can make their own decision. if they choose to believe in religion thats all great and everything...
How many think that your child will be Atheist?
Let's be honest. No matter what you do, your child will almost certainly be Athist. Because thats the house hold they grew up in. So did you think you forced it on them?
apathy doesnt make it forced.
if someone doesnt teach u something it doesnt mean they are forcing something on to you.
you have to teach a kid about religion for them to be believers. the act of teaching them about it is the part where u are forcing it on to them, while the act of NOT teaching them about it is not forcing something on to them. its giving them an option to learn on their own.
i wont choose their religion, but i won´t be the kind of dad whos dragged into the church he hates like the devil himselft. i will try to inspire my kid to be an atheist, but i wont force him/her.
"Inspired" by the Right of parents to force their religion on their children thread. I feel its time to turn the tables.
Try answering the question.
Atheists
Do Atheist parents have the right to force Atheism on their children?
How many of you will raise your child not to belive in a god?
How many of you will raise your child with knowledge of God? (Without making fun of it while you teach it.)
How many of you will take your children to church?
How many of you will raise your children to make their own decission, like you had?
How many think that your child will be Atheist?
Let's be honest. No matter what you do, your child will almost certainly be Athist. Because thats the house hold they grew up in. So did you think you forced it on them?
*Btw, I do hate Religious threads, but Im kinda pissd at the one sidedness of that other thread*
Since people appear to be blind, or have never been children.
[HEADING=2]Its a child, it cannot choose its own religion. Stop saying that. It can when its a teen, but how many 5 year old converts do you know?[/HEADING]
I grew up in a traditionally Greek Orthodox family. Going to church semi regularly. I was never really that devout. My mother was, so I would go to church with her to please her. I started questioning around the age of 12 and a little bit lower. Today, I still call myself Christian, but my feelings about religion can be sumerised by "there could be". I don't buy into many things the church says. Like the wrongness of homosexuallity and the "sort of" denial of evolution. I belive their might be a god, but my opinion wavers twords oneside or the other constantly. The reason I do belive in god is because of all the great things I have recived through prayer. Like my brother being diagnosed with somethin curable rather than fatal, which I know is just medicin but I am still thankfull for. Latly, my opinion has been more "who cares". I belive in being a good person on earth, and belive that if their is a god I will be rewarded for being a good person, not for being devout.
Anyway, thats a ramble on me.
Do Atheist parents have the right to force Atheism on their children?
No but I still think a majority of their kids will be Atheists, because they grew up in a Atheist household. I will raise my children to be good people. My wife can make them religious.
How many of you will raise your child not to belive in a god?
As above
How many of you will raise your child with knowledge of God? (Without making fun of it while you teach it.)
I will teach my child the concept of god. To help him make his decission.
How many of you will take your children to church?
Not frequently. My wife can take them more
How many of you will raise your children to make their own decission, like you had?
I will raise them Christian. But focus on being a good person over just belief. Then they can choose
How many think that your child will be Atheist?
Maybe, the world is a ever growing frightening place. If its hard for me to stay devout. it will probably be harder for them.
Heh, you know, you're right.
I remember a quote from my grandfather who said something along the lines of "I was born a Catholic and I'll die a Catholic".
Guess what, grandpa? You're born as nothing. You became a Catholic later on.
I'm actually getting quite sick of this. Atheism is not an organised religion. Religion is just choosing what to believe and what not to believe. Atheism is a religion, and it's a damn hypocritical one at that.
I'm gonna let my kids choose, but I'm going to introduce them to the cold, hard realities of logic and fact last, because I want my kids to be kids, and cold cynic isn't that.
Atheism is not a religion just as a hole in the ground is not a lake. Lack of belief in a deity = no religion. Lack of water in a hole = no lake.
If you believe otherwise then my bike is a motorcycle even though it lacks an engine, my paycheck is sizeable even though it lacks a decent wage, and my sex life is wild even though it lacks frequent partners.
EDIT: Ninja'd. Damn you, Cakes! I thought you were a lie.
No, no, no! Atheism is not a religion. It is the belief that there is no god. Did you ever consider the atheist religions, like Buddhism? And please don't say that Buddha is a god, he is not a god. There are other religions that have no overarching supreme being that can still be considered religions.
Um, I was actually agreeing that atheism isn't a religion. However, it's not the belief there is no god, since that implies a belief of some kind. Atheism is simply the lack of belief, just like I don't believe in a magical space teapot because there's no evidence for it.
Nope. Atheism is actually disbelief in a god, not just lack of belief in something. I believe there is no god; I also do not believe there is a god. This is belief. I believe in this lack.
"The definition for atheism that we use, put simply, says that atheism is the lack of a god-belief, the absence of theism, to whatever degree and for whatever reason. "
http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1111.htm
From Wikipedia:
"Historically, the terms positive and negative atheism have been used for this distinction, where "positive" atheism refers to the specific belief that gods do not exist, and "negative" atheism refers merely to an absence of belief in gods.[1] Because of flexibility in the term "god", it is understood that a person could be a strong atheist in terms of certain portrayals of gods, while remaining a weak atheist in terms of others."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_and_strong_atheism
From American Atheists:
"Theists usually define atheism incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a belief system. Atheism is not a religion.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, from the original Greek meaning of "without gods." That is it. There is nothing more to it."
http://www.atheists.org/atheism/About_Atheism
Yes, thank you for saying exactly what I was trying to say. Atheism is not a belief system; however, lack of belief in something is a belief. It is, as you quoted, a negative belief. Even if you don't believe in anything, those are your beliefs.
Except that image in the spoiler. Religion does not require a deity. I do not believe in a god, and yet I have religion. I take part in an athiest religion. Why is this so difficult?
Saying that one believes or does not believe in something describes ones beliefs, whether one believes that something exists or doesn't exist. When you say, "I don't believe in blue unicorns," you are actually saying, "I believe blue unicorns don't exist." You don't lack beliefs. You have beliefs, negative beliefs in the existance of blue unicorns. Does that make it clear?
No you are not.
"I don't believe in blue unicorns." and "I believe blue unicorns don't exist." are two completely different statements with completely different meanings.
Actively believing that blue unicorns don't exist anywhere in the universe is completely different to simply seeing no reason to believe that they do exist.
Did you know the very center of the moon is full of cake?
Before you think it, yes it is! Prove me wrong... oh wait you can't, that must mean I'm right.
At the end of the day, there is no real proof a god does or doesn't exist. All we have is logic and facts. There is no evidence of a god. Logic would dictate that until proven otherwise, that there is no god. You may 'believe' there is one, or you may have a 'feeling' there is one.
Those are statements of 'belief' or 'feelings'. Using logic to come to a conclusion isn't a belief, it's fact until proven wrong. We see gravity in effect in our everyday lives.
We drop something, it falls the the planet, smaller objects rotate around larger objects in space, we logically come to the conclusion that there is a force at work. (named gravity). This isn't a 'belief' even tho we can't see it.
Hence Athiesm isn't a 'belief'. It's a conclusion from logic and facts. We can't use a bible for reference since it was written by man who 'heard the voice of god'. (Go to A&E on a saturday night and I'm sure a few people there heard it then too...)
So unless there is substantial evidence that a god exists then Athiesm can't be debunked as a 'belief'.
No you are not.
"I don't believe in blue unicorns." and "I believe blue unicorns don't exist." are two completely different statements with completely different meanings.
Actively believing that blue unicorns don't exist anywhere in the universe is completely different to simply seeing no reason to believe that they do exist.
So you are saying that when someone says, "I don't believe in blue unicorns," they are actually saying, "I see no reason to believe blue unicorns exist?" No. That's not what they said. They didn't say those words, nor did they say, "I don't think blue unicorns exist," Or "I'm not certain whether blue unicorns exist or not." They said, "I do not believe in blue unicorns."
A negative belief is still a belief. Until it can be proved whether blue unicorns exist or do not exist conclusively, one can only have beliefs about blue unicorns, not knowledge.
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