Atheists want God stricken from inaugural oath

[Rolling 20]

Oh, why can't they see that being bitchy like this makes people hate them. Like the PeTA effect.

Mind if I steal the term, "PeTA effect," that sounds like a great way to describe whinny protesters who only become less popular by protesting.

I hardly think atheists are 'bitchy' or 'whiny'. Christians are certainly worse. However, I do agree that protesting this will get them nowhere. Until they are a majority, it's never going to happen.

 

[ZacQuickSilver]

Having God in the Pledge is just Unconstitutional. I haven't had to say it (my parents could afford to avoid public schools at the age when you're reciting that), but if I am ever required to, by God I'm going to insert something else in there.

Irony warning.

Do you think that wasn't intended. That's the fun thing about being an eclectic Christian: I get to mess with everyone.


Including God. I just hope He appreciates it, because if not, I'm going to be spending a lot of time in Purgatory.

Or Hell. (Crosses fingers)

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm guessing if God had a say, he'd have stricken it from Bush's pledge anyway.

 

[Specter_]

It's a Christian nation, like it or not. It's not like anyone's forcing atheists to become practicing followers. If anything, it's honoring this nation's roots.

I agree. This isn't some sort of indoctrination thing-we're respecting the way in which this nation was founded. Removing any trace of Christianity from our government feels disrespectful to our forefathers. First it was the Pledge, now this.

link [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment]
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment refers to the first of several pronouncements in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, stating that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". Together with the Free Exercise Clause, ("... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"), these two clauses make up what are commonly known as the "religion clauses" of the First Amendment.

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference of one religion over another or the support of a religious idea with no identifiable secular purpose.

and here i am, thinking that the us had a system of seperating the state and the church. at least in good ol' germany you can leave out the "so help me god" in any oath you take if you want to

 

[Booze Zombie]

I personally think the "God" part stricken because it wasn't originally there. People seem to want everything else virtually untouched, why not "the oath"?

 

[Archaeology Hat]

The United States of America is populated mainly by White European settlers from western European countries such as the United Kingdom, France, the various pre-Bismark German states, the Netherlands and so on.

Many of these Settlers were fleeing religious opression, which is why America has such a large number of the wierder sects of christianity compared to most European nations. It is entirely inoppropriate for the president of America and the government of America to have any say in matters of religion. That is what the separation of Church and State is for. I believe it's enshrined in your constitution. Freedom of religion should be sacred to you as a national value. Freedom of religion means that the secular authaurities can have NO referance to any deity or religious value in any document such as a constitution or pledge of alliegence.

It has been said before that the "and so help me god" is a product of the 1950s. It comes from Cold-War America wanting to differentiate itself from Atheist or at least Agnostic Communist Russia. In my opinion, and the opinions of a large number of brits I know, even the religious ones, it was a deeply stupid move and you're paying for it today.

 

[NekoAnastasia]

Nyeh. I'm an atheist, but other people believing in God doesn't bother me, especially when it's used as a tool for people to remind one another to be decent and kind. I'll always support the individual's right to faith, even if I disagree with organised religion.

 

[KyoraSan]

Here's what I think.

There is separation of Church and State. An elected official shouldn't be elected because of religion, and in matters of state 'God' shouldn't be there.
Especially considering, for instance, "Under God" was added to the national anthem after it was written, as was "In God We Trust" to the money.
Not sure if "...or so help me god" was added, but if it was then it probably should be removed. This is a secular state for a reason.
Religion has always, always ALWAYS fucked up a country.
That said, getting yourself in a tizzy over a simple utterance is retarded. Just change "So help me God" to "So help me Allah" for a Muslim, or "So help me Yaweh," and if its an atheist, how about "So help my people?"
In fact, why not "So help my people" for everyone? Then it doesn't MATTER.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Here's what I think.

There is separation of Church and State. An elected official shouldn't be elected because of religion, and in matters of state 'God' shouldn't be there.

An elected official should be elected because of religion if that is what the people want. An elected official should be elected because he has purple hair, one leg, and spends most of his day on a tyre swing if that is what people want. Democracy is about what most of the populace put on their ballot papers, not what a vocal minority can sue about.

Especially considering, for instance, "Under God" was added to the national anthem after it was written, as was "In God We Trust" to the money.
Not sure if "...or so help me god" was added, but if it was then it probably should be removed. This is a secular state for a reason.

It is a secular state, but Obama is a human being. He shouldn't be prompted to say those words, but if he is religious he has a right to say them. It is his oath to the nation, not the nations oath to anyone else.

Religion has always, always ALWAYS fucked up a country.

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

That said, getting yourself in a tizzy over a simple utterance is retarded. Just change "So help me God" to "So help me Allah" for a Muslim, or "So help me Yaweh," and if its an atheist, how about "So help my people?"
In fact, why not "So help my people" for everyone? Then it doesn't MATTER.

Agreed. There are far more important things to worry about that are worth fighting for (getting the likes of God channel evangelists to stop scamming peoples money for instance). This looks to me like an attention grabbing move by the people involved rather than any serious attempt to curb the excesses of religious extremists or bring religious scam artists to light.

 

[Specter_]

It is a secular state, but Obama is a human being. He shouldn't be prompted to say those words, but if he is religious he has a right to say them. It is his oath to the nation, not the nations oath to anyone else.

i agree with that, but afaik it is not possible to leave out the "so help me god part". it should neither be enforced nor prohibited to say it. as i said before, in germany you can choose to say it or not and that's the way it should be: freedom of (not-)believing whatever you want

 

[Dele]

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

Estonia? State has no business protecting religion as religion has no inherit value.

It is a secular state, but Obama is a human being. He shouldn't be prompted to say those words, but if he is religious he has a right to say them. It is his oath to the nation, not the nations oath to anyone else.

Secular state? I predict that USA will almost reach the secularism of Nigeria or Egypt on next decade... Almost

 

[cuddly_tomato]

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

Estonia? State has no business protecting religion as religion has no inherit value.

To you Dele.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Hopefully the U.S. won't go completely secular. Whether you all like it or not, the country was founded on the belief in God. We are a tolerant country--come and practice whatever you want. Just because you are offended by "In God we Trust" on our money or mentioning God in an oath or in the courtroom...

No other nation has rose to power so quickly. To get to where the US currently is in status, it took the Roman Empire 500+ years.

This is mindboggling. All religious laws have a "ten commandants", all modern law is based off of that document. So why can't we have a sculpture of the Ten Commandants outside of a courthouse??

 

[Singing Gremlin]

If Obama believes in God, then having him swear to God makes sense. If he didn't believe in God I would say yeah, don't make him say it, but when someone that believes in God says "so help me God", it means that if they don't keep their promise they'll be letting their god down.

This. It should be down to his preference.

 

[Jammy111]

I think I can sum up the mood here quite accurately.

NOT BOTHERED

 

[Dele]

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

Estonia? State has no business protecting religion as religion has no inherit value.

To you Dele.

If you can somehow quantify the value religion has, then maybe I could accept that it has to be protected so please tell me that a certain set of customs has more value than another set of customs. Then again you hated x-supremacy groups so I find it hard to believe that you would openly claim some customs having more value than others (touché). I would say that religions/languages/cultures should go with their own weight and if they are dying there is little reason to keep them alive through law and force.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

Estonia? State has no business protecting religion as religion has no inherit value.

To you Dele.

If you can somehow quantify the value religion has, then maybe I could accept that it has to be protected so please tell me that a certain set of customs has more value than another set of customs. Then again you hated x-supremacy groups so I find it hard to believe that you would openly claim some customs having more value than others (touché).

Dele, I don't give a rats ass whether you accept other cultures, races, and people or not.

I would say that religions/languages/cultures should go with their own weight and if they are dying there is little reason to keep them alive through law and force.

I said "protect", not "preserve". The government should protect peoples rights to be religious practitioners, and ensure that bigoted, ignorant, arrogant, and extremely misguided people don't interfere with that.

 

[Dele]

So has atheism, where it has been applied by the state. The state has no business promoting or condemning religion. It has every business protecting it though, and every business protecting peoples right to abstain from it if that is their wish.

Obamas oath is his oath. It should be taken to whatever he believes in.

Estonia? State has no business protecting religion as religion has no inherit value.

To you Dele.

If you can somehow quantify the value religion has, then maybe I could accept that it has to be protected so please tell me that a certain set of customs has more value than another set of customs. Then again you hated x-supremacy groups so I find it hard to believe that you would openly claim some customs having more value than others (touché).

Dele, I don't give a rats ass whether you accept other cultures, races, and people or not.

I would say that religions/languages/cultures should go with their own weight and if they are dying there is little reason to keep them alive through law and force.

I said "protect", not "preserve". The government should protect peoples rights to be religious practitioners, and ensure that bigoted, ignorant, arrogant, and extremely misguided people don't interfere with that.

I thought those were the definitions of religious people. As for protecting peoples religious rights I cant understand what government has to do. Religion certainly does not require any special priviledges and should have nothing to do with government so the most obvious solution for government would be to ignore religion completely (and separate state and chuch *wink* *wink* Americans). Of course if something illegal is done then government should obviously interfere but I think you didn't mean that.

 

[Trivun]

Simplest thing to do would be for you Americans to change the constitution so that the President-Elect just replaces God with the name of whatever deity he/she believes in. For example, if Christian say 'So help me God', if Muslim say 'Allah', if Buddhist say 'Buddha', if Atheist don't say anything, and if Rastafarian say 'King of Ethiopia' (sorry, couldn't resist that last one). Then no-one can argue and if an atheist or Muslim or Sikh or whoever does ever get elected, they can stay within the bounds of their religion. Obama is Christian so it's right that he should say 'So help me God' tommorow. Just for the record I am Christian but am tolerant of other faiths and even Atheists.