Aussie Minister Proposes Ditching MA15+ Game Ratings
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Isn't this more analogous to the R rating? I mean, our ratings system jumps from T/PG to M/R, and we still get R and M media. A quick search says Australia has an M rating which is 13+, like T/PG. So it would actually put the ratings on par. So what's there to make you think suddenly things are going to be stripped down like that for australia? Wouldn't the current system imply it wouldn't?tkioz said:
Halo 2 is certified M in the US, and the Uncharted games are both Teen (13). I have trouble seeing the cert raising on Halo, or lowering the two Uncharted games. Some people might complain, but you already can't please everyone.blanksmyname said:
Interesting development. Why does all the ignorant bullshit come from the politicians instead of the opposition groups? The politicians are meant to be impartial, to weigh the merits of each side's arguments and come to a conclusion. Michael Atkinson clearly failed by imposing his own views and opinions on others - that's not the role of a politician. Why does John Rau have to fail by bringing completely ridiculous proposals into it?
Fuck, and the next SA election isn't until 2014...
I think Rau's just a bit misguided. He clearly doesn't understand the games, or indeed the entertainment industry and it will be down to groups like Electronic Frontiers Australia to fully inform him. He's not as staunchly opposed to games as Michael Atkinson is, he's just being a bit of a twat. Hope it doesn't last.
Fuck, and the next SA election isn't until 2014...
I think Rau's just a bit misguided. He clearly doesn't understand the games, or indeed the entertainment industry and it will be down to groups like Electronic Frontiers Australia to fully inform him. He's not as staunchly opposed to games as Michael Atkinson is, he's just being a bit of a twat. Hope it doesn't last.
It's quite an interesting proposition really. On one hand, the gaming community gets what it has wanted for a long time, the R-18 rating that can finally bring us Aussies up to speed with the rest of the gaming world, however, with the loss of the MA15 rating, we also lose the range and diversity that defines other forms of entertainment. As other posters have mentioned, there are a great many games that are too intense for the Australian M rating, but well below the bar for an R-18 rating.
From my experiences, most of the trouble with younger kids getting their hands on mature content stems from a lack of awareness on the behalf of their parents who are the major suppliers of MA15 games to younger kids because, after all, a store won't sell MA games to kids under 15. It doesn't take a stretch of logic to realise where supply comes from and why it happens, a lack of awareness of content, and while the argument of creating the M to R-18 "jump" will make this content variant more obvious, it leaves gamers of mature teenage years, such as myself, unable to access content that they are capable of handing and enjoy. The OFLC has always informed the public of the meanings of ratings for movies and television etc. and perhaps if a clearer destinction was drawn for video games between what is M, what is MA15, and what R-18 will be, we can have our cake and eat it too.
I think that it might be about time that the SCAGs stopped waving the blame at the gaming industry for being irrisponsible, they're not that different from film or television, they're out to produce a product that consumers enjoy and then hopefully turn a profit. If we incorperate an R-18 rating within the current system, it will help filter extreme content from the MA15 rating, but we should also try to take a few more decisive steps towards better informing the parents of younger audiences as to the content of each rating to aviod the problems of them supplying underage kids with content designed for more mature audiences.
It can't be that tricky, can it?
From my experiences, most of the trouble with younger kids getting their hands on mature content stems from a lack of awareness on the behalf of their parents who are the major suppliers of MA15 games to younger kids because, after all, a store won't sell MA games to kids under 15. It doesn't take a stretch of logic to realise where supply comes from and why it happens, a lack of awareness of content, and while the argument of creating the M to R-18 "jump" will make this content variant more obvious, it leaves gamers of mature teenage years, such as myself, unable to access content that they are capable of handing and enjoy. The OFLC has always informed the public of the meanings of ratings for movies and television etc. and perhaps if a clearer destinction was drawn for video games between what is M, what is MA15, and what R-18 will be, we can have our cake and eat it too.
I think that it might be about time that the SCAGs stopped waving the blame at the gaming industry for being irrisponsible, they're not that different from film or television, they're out to produce a product that consumers enjoy and then hopefully turn a profit. If we incorperate an R-18 rating within the current system, it will help filter extreme content from the MA15 rating, but we should also try to take a few more decisive steps towards better informing the parents of younger audiences as to the content of each rating to aviod the problems of them supplying underage kids with content designed for more mature audiences.
It can't be that tricky, can it?
Few points on that...Kouen said:
In Australia, the R18+ rating makes it an offense to sell the product to minors. Very few salesmonkeys are going to risk their job and a $5k+ fine to sell some snotnoses a R18+ game.
Also I think the Australian govt are going to have some words with Valve over Steam and either ask that some age verification mechanism be put in place or that they don't offer R18+ titles to Australian customers. Hard to say but Valve has been pretty accomodating to Australian law so far.
That leaves parents are the final arbiters of what, if any, mature content games their kids play which, IMO, is the bloody way it should be... or the kids can just ask that creepy old guy hanging around outside the game shop to buy that new R18+ game for them. Hell, he might even give the kid a ride in his van after.
I hope you enjoy your form letter reply.Adzma said:
Unlike Atkinson who took joy in taunting gamers with multi-page replies spouting his usual lines of bullshit, you'll most likely get a 'thank you for your concern, be assured the matter has been brought to Mr Rau's attention and he will be looking into it' form letter in return.
I support this, as long as my Australian buddies can finally get their hands on an uncut and uncensored version of some of the amazing games that couldn't make the 15+ rating.
Not necessarily. I emailed Rob Hulls when he was still Attorney-General, and though the response wasn't written by him personally it was handled properly and addressed all questions I had raised in a manner which was not simply political spin.RhombusHatesYou said:
At least if nothing happens I can still say I at least tried to voice concern, rather than assuming everything will turn out for the worse and sitting back doing nothing.
Yeah but that's in Victoria. South Australian AGs are far too busy trying to stop bikers from going to the same BBQs and banning anonymous political commentary on the internet. This is the State, remember, that ended up with R rated DVDs being 'quaratined' by either being shelved in a seperate section or sold with plan covers all because some churchie fuckwit (read: Family First) member of the Legislative Council couldn't control his fucking child when out shopping.Adzma said:
While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of removing the MA-15+ from our classification system, it does come back to the old question of "Why are games treated differently?"
EDIT:
"My reason for wanting to get rid of MA15+ if an R18+ is passed is that it will provide a crisper delineation between adults-only games and games that are for children"
There are also teenager out there. I'd hate to be his kid, forced to watch childrens TV and movies until I turned 18.
EDIT:
"My reason for wanting to get rid of MA15+ if an R18+ is passed is that it will provide a crisper delineation between adults-only games and games that are for children"
There are also teenager out there. I'd hate to be his kid, forced to watch childrens TV and movies until I turned 18.
While reading this at first I thought it ment "make the rating system G PG R" and just thought "seriously, what the fuck?"
But remembering that we have an M rating (which is essentially the same thing as MA15+, it just looks cuter) I think this is actually a bloody good idea.
Whats the bloody point of having two ratings that mean pretty much the same damned thing?
Anyway, as an aside: I hear too many Australian politicions/etc. flap on about "We want to make the game/movie/earlobe mating industry do things a specific way, so lets adjust our laws!" but lets be freaking honest everyone else in Australia, our games industry is still growing and the majority of over seas game developers have already proven their willing to say "go to hell" if our laws don't match their games.
Removing MA15+ or leaving it in won't cause developers to suddenly have a change of heart. The good it will do though will be that there is a much clearer line. "Modern Warfare 2? R. Guitar Hero Metalica? M." Massively different games and 'shock content' but the rating system doesn't reflect it.
But remembering that we have an M rating (which is essentially the same thing as MA15+, it just looks cuter) I think this is actually a bloody good idea.
Whats the bloody point of having two ratings that mean pretty much the same damned thing?
Anyway, as an aside: I hear too many Australian politicions/etc. flap on about "We want to make the game/movie/earlobe mating industry do things a specific way, so lets adjust our laws!" but lets be freaking honest everyone else in Australia, our games industry is still growing and the majority of over seas game developers have already proven their willing to say "go to hell" if our laws don't match their games.
Removing MA15+ or leaving it in won't cause developers to suddenly have a change of heart. The good it will do though will be that there is a much clearer line. "Modern Warfare 2? R. Guitar Hero Metalica? M." Massively different games and 'shock content' but the rating system doesn't reflect it.
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. The main issue I have is treating games and movies the same way. If there's an MA15+ for movies, why shouldn't there be one for games? Reasoning like this isn't helping, it's hurting; R18+ at any cost isn't what we should be aiming for. A plan like this may just push MA15+ to R18+ and what SHOULD be classified as R18+ will end up being refused classification anyway.Andy Chalk said:
As a side note, Halo 3 and ODST were classified as M here, every other shooter in my library is MA15+.
...Actually I like it. And maybe everyone should do that. I mean look at the ESRB. We have M with is for 17+ and AO which is for 18+. Not an extremely huge difference there. And AO never gets used because it's basically for porn games or really super violent stuff, and because getting that rating is basically a ban since none of the console makers let games with those ratings onto their systems, and not many devs are going to make a PC exclusive game over just toning down the game to get an M rating.
At the very least, we could do with some sort of rearranging or elimination here too. Maybe bump M up to 18+, and change AO to "XXX" or something because it's basically just a "this is a porn game" rating anyway. Very few games actually got the rating for extreme violence over porn, and if M is bumped up to be clear that it's not meant for kids, it shouldn't matter how violent they get.
At the very least, we could do with some sort of rearranging or elimination here too. Maybe bump M up to 18+, and change AO to "XXX" or something because it's basically just a "this is a porn game" rating anyway. Very few games actually got the rating for extreme violence over porn, and if M is bumped up to be clear that it's not meant for kids, it shouldn't matter how violent they get.
Well, I do like that the ratings are clear-cut ages rather than various letters. Instead of "M" it would just say "16" or "18" which would also help make it clear that it's not for 5 year olds.JediMB said:
Honestly, we have an MA15+ and R18 ratings in Australia for movies, and why should it be any different for games? All this is going to do is just make more games censored, for no reason. This is the reason I think the American movie rating system is a bit weird. PG straight to R doesn't make much sense to me.