Avast ye! piracy and its justifications

[jim_doki]

Oh yes, that old chestnut. Look, i'm not going to lie to you, i've stolen songs from the internet, a few games as well. Now while I'm not saying that it's right, I have my own justifications and reasons to do so. For starters more often than not there are two reasons for me to download something. I can't obtain it any other way, or it's being given away for free anyway.

In the first case i'm not able to find Gunstar Heroes for example. there are several reasons this could be, ie that it wasn't released in my country, cartridges of games this good are never hocked, and even if they were i would need a converter to play them. This is why the Virtual Console on the Wii is one of the greatest things ever. it circumvents this by offering the product, in a playable form for a small fee. after, of course, i pay for the wii

in the second case, and this is much more common with songs, is that if the song (note, not album, SONG/SINGLE) is played on commercial radio, more often than not the artist isn't gettin any money on that. songs are given to radio stations by record companies as promotional tools, like trailers in the movies. This means that I dont have a problem downloading them, im not taking food out of the artists mouth, and if it's good i'll buy the album.

However, i have been reconsidering this position due to the statements of one Kid Rock, who rather sarcastically has claimed that artists have no right to complain because they're rich (a common justification in several cases) and therefore it's ok to steal from the rich, Including software makers, car manufacturers and oil companies. This facinates me. Is it extreme as stealing a car? does it make you a common thief or a consumer of the new century?

discuss

 

[Easykill]

Yeah, it's thievery, but it's minor, and more importantly, difficult to get caught doing. That's what really matters.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

in the second case, and this is much more common with songs, is that if the song (note, not album, SONG/SINGLE) is played on commercial radio, more often than not the artist isn't gettin any money on that. songs are given to radio stations by record companies as promotional tools, like trailers in the movies. This means that I dont have a problem downloading them, im not taking food out of the artists mouth, and if it's good i'll buy the album.

actually that's wrong, they do get paid for airplay. there was a big stink and still is about fees for over the web broadcasts, most would actually go bankrupt if they had to pay the fees being asked for

now before going much further, i will make a disclaimer here, i have almost 1500 cds/records and almost 800 dvds and tons of games, so i do give back as it were.

i don't go for movies and games, anymore, most games i can buy np, as for movies, i hate the quality of most of them, there are rare cases where i can't find the show on dvd, then i will dl it.

now for music, i will sometimes taste test a band by finding it, if i like them i will buy their cd/cds. if they come around i go to the concert if i can, this is actually better because the musician makes more money with concerts compared to albums, especially big labels. most big label artists make less than $1 per cd sold, the rest goes to the label, indie artists on indie labels make more for the most part.

now i posed this to a musician when discussing downloading music, he was initially against it.

i said you have a few situations here

1 person is a fan, dl's music to see if they like new cd, they may have may not bought anyways and they could still buy it (possible loss of money but would have happened anyways)
1.1 they still go to the concert (more money made)

2 person never heard of you, dl's music, likes music, buys all your cds (money made)
2.1 they go see you in concert (even more money made)

3 person never heard of you, dl's music, doesn't have money to get cds (no money made but woudln't have made any, so none lost)
3.1 they do have money to see you in concert when you tour (money made)

4 person never heard of you, dl's music, doesn't like it, doesn't buy cd (no money made and would never have made any)
4.1 wouldn't have gone to concert anyways (no money would have been made)

out of these 4 only the last one did they really lose any money, but really they would never have made money in the first place

they have this false idea that every person who dl's a song off a filesharing program would have bought the cd but honestly most ppl wouldn't have anyways, it's a way to discover new music

Sam Rosenthal from Projekt Records [http://www.projekt.com] at one point was endorsing file sharing, he's still a bit on the fence about it but does know the advantages of it

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Yeah, it's thievery, but it's minor, and more importantly, difficult to get caught doing. That's what really matters.

actually it's pretty easy to get caught, it's hard to prove, read some of the stuff the riaa has been doing, do a google search on riaa john doe cases, you'll find tons of cases about them going after file sharers

 

[Saskwach]

I've pirated- in the strictest sense of the word- maybe half a dozen songs when friends sent me a song through msn to sell me on a band. Other than that I don't ever pirate. First, it's because I don't like pirating. Second, it's because I hate downloading things from the internet; I like my physical copies. I also don't pirate using the "try before buy, I'll buy it if it's good and delete if not" excuse because, though the reason is understandable, I don't trust myself to go and buy something I already have just to feel better about myself.

 

[Kovash86]

When I steal stuff of of the web I usually only want a small piece of the item I'm stealing and don't want to pay $30+ for a page and a half, other times it is when I cannot find those things in english where I live, being in Oklahoma is not friendly to the person who likes things from various countries (German beer/Rock, Japanese comics/music/movies, Chinese food/comics/movies, British comedies, and some of the other centers of cultural exchange), if I find something that I enjoyed through and through I will actually go out of my way and buy it, for example I first stole Empowered after seeing it at a friend's house and then I read a chapter out of it, when I got the money up I bought that the moment my copy came in (unfortunately volume 2 came in before volume 1, since I had to re-order vol. 1, and I had to wait almost a month before I could enjoy the paperbacks, this had me fairly well pissed off.) right now I'm still waiting for vol 4 to come out since we can expect Emp to do better since Adam managed to get rid of most of the D.I.D. pics in the last one (thank god)

 

[Calobi]

First off, you beat me to this thread, Jim.

Second:

Yeah, it's thievery, but it's minor, and more importantly, difficult to get caught doing. That's what really matters.

actually it's pretty easy to get caught, it's hard to prove, read some of the stuff the riaa has been doing, do a google search on riaa john doe cases, you'll find tons of cases about them going after file sharers

RIAA doesn't feel they need "proof" anymore, so proving it isn't hard to do for them. Just thought I'd throw that in for what's it worth.

Thirdly (and finally on topic), I pirate things all the time. I won't lie, movies, songs, and even the occasional video game. I do things, though, that in my book make it okay.

For movies, I only pirate things that can't be found in stores (Try finding the sci-fi horror movie "They". You can't.). Sometimes, I pirate newer movies (Aeon Flux, for example) and if I could find it, it would be bargain bin $5 max.

As for songs, I don't listen to very much, so I've only ever pirated 1 hour and 24 minutes (looking at my play list length). Between all the different artists, that's about 1 or 2 songs per group. They aren't missing the fraction of a cent (Artists get something like 5-15% of sales, according to a musician friend of mine. Never felt like looking into it to see if he's right.).

Finally, for games. here's the only place I feel slightly bad about pirating. I want to be a programmer and know how hard making a game is. However, I don't feel like spending $50-60 American on a peice of garbage. So I "borrow" the games from the Internet. If it's good, I'll either buy it or donate to the company. I bought Portal after torrenting it, mainly so I could get the achievements and user maps, but still. I tried Oblivion, and while it was good, I wouldn't have bought it. However, I still have it and play sometimes, so I donated to Bethesda (harder than it sounds). Not the full price, of course, but something to make up for the fact I took their game.

Well, that grew longer than I thought it would.

 

[shatnershaman]

Arr they be hunting for us boys! Give those RIAA bastards a broadside.

 

[Isaac Dodgson]

I'm one step removed from having an eye patch and a wisecracking parrot on my shoulder to be honest. Granted I used to pirate all over the board, from software to music and movies, but now I stick with music, mostly because finding Apple software is umpteen times harder than anything windows based, but a main reason is that buddies of mine get caught left and right. I've halted my pirating to a minimum and even then I go go through semi legal channels to get what I need.

Certain artists however I just simply won't steal from, one of which is Maynard James Keenan. As much as he hates fans that hold him up like some sort of god (The misses does, and I constantly remind her that he hates her), you have keep respect for his art.

 

[Frybird]

Nowadays i pirate, because i'm not willing to wait.

I mostly download TV-Shows, regulary, everything from BSG to Lost to the Venture Bros. I find it hard to feel guilty about it. Since i live in germany, i have no chance to get my hands on the Venture Bros through any other way (and probably never will be.
I certainly can watch Battlestar Galactica and Lost on german tv...a half to a year later after it aired in the US, with sub-par dubbing and badly placed commercial breaks...but i don't feel any guilt watching it early...especially after i recently watched the season premiere of 24 S6... I got so used to being able to watching it in the original language and in the way i want it that the realisation of how awful watching something on TV is hit me pretty hard.
And well...one way or another, i get it free, and especially since some american tv stations offer thier shows for free online (a service i cannot use), i don't feel like i've stole anything from anyone.

It's pretty much the same with movies. There was a time when i downloaded pretty much every now release, but since i've come to appreciate a good dvd much more, and have a regular income, i only download movies if i don't have any chance to watch it in a nearby cinema. If it is good, i buy it on DVD when and if it comes out (did so with the Fountain, Tenacious D in the Pick of Destiny and marebito), if not...well, i'm not the guy who buys DVDs for 20 ? (circa 22-25 $) without knowing if the movie's any good anyways, so you can't argue that someone lost money on me.

 

[DeadMG]

Yeah, it's thievery, but it's minor, and more importantly, difficult to get caught doing. That's what really matters.

Indeed. I don't know wether you'd be tried for petty theft or larceny.

Digitally stealing songs is copyright infringement, not theft. In order for it to be theft, you have to PROVE that you have actually lost something. All you have to say is that you wouldn't have paid for it anyway, and the prosecution would have to prove that you would have done and that's how the record company lost out.

In any case, insofar as my personal piracy is concerned, nobody knows, and frankly, nobody cares.

 

[Arachon]

Guybrysh Threepwood, Mighty pirate...

Seriosuly though, yes I pirate, no I can't justify it with more than "It's free ay?" If you find $100 on the street, do you take them, or do you hand it over to the coppers, hoping for a $10 reward?

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I pirate music because nowadays you can't be sure with artists because they can sell out and their music can turn shit. I was going to actually buy Linkin Parks' new album but now I'm glad I didn't biggest pile of crap I've ever listened to, it's nothing like their earlier, better work. Same goes for Funeral for A Friend, Lostprophets and My Chemical Romance. I'm not going to gamble my hard earned money like that, those artists gambled their money when they compiled that crap but I'm not going to gamble mine buying that crap and being disappointed by it. Since then I've always pirated music(I did before that too though), I even consult Wikipedia to see when the newest albums from my favourite artists are coming out then search them up on torrent sites;
Latest pirate: Inhale Exhales new album - I Swear..... , I am loving this album right now

However I will buy Iron Man when it comes out, it'll look better on my HD TV than a DVD-Rip will look on my laptop screen.

 

[Fire Daemon]

I don't Pirate on a large level, yeah I have maybe...a dozen songs and a couple of DVD's (that I have not been bothered to watch) but that is it. And it isn't like I don't have the chance to set sail on the seven seas, I have friends with thousands of burnt movies, CD's and games.

I'm just the sort of person that if they want something they will do they legal thing to get it. At the moment I don't mind the prices for movies and games, if I want a movie then I will gladly pay for it. I don't really care for the creators (they make enough money as it is) I just personally don't want to get illegal copies of movies/games.

 

[mrverbal]

I pirate a lot of TV shows - because the local networks treat a lot of shows like shit (moving the randomly, showing them out of order) and also advertising sucks (PS: I hate you eve online).

I don't pirate music in large volume - the occasional song, generally, when considering an album because a lot of bands think it is ok to have one catchy song on an album full of turds.

Also, contrary to this ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5SmrHNWhak&feature=related

while it is right I wouldn't *steal* a car, I'd sure as fuck download one. I mean, if I could set my computer running and in the morning wake up to a shiney new porche? I'd hit that.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I've downloaded and got over 8000 songs from about over 100 artists(1 or 2 R&B, the rest metal or any variation of metal lol), I keep them all on my external harddrive, the ones I listen to most I keep on my laptop. I also have a wealth of anime episodes from back in the day when that kind of thing interested me and I have a couple of hundred games too for good measure

I don't mind downloading things, especially when inflation is high nowadays I can't be spending my money on movies and music, it's got to towards food and shit like that. heck if I weren't so worried I could mess up my 360 I would chip it and play burnt games, that would save me even more money
My ex was on my case alot of the time because I downloaded her albums that she liked(like Rihanna which I despise)but she didn't mind as long as I didn't get caught and sent to jail(her and her overactive imagination lol).

 

[JaguarWong]

Here's a theory:
If everyone in the world downloaded all their music illegally then the only way for acts and their management to make money would be through live gigs.

While this would have the detrimental effect of a rise in ticket prices it would, more importantly, have the positive effect of an increase in acts who can put on a decent live show - either in terms of spectacle or musical accumen.

Result.

 

[jezz8me]

I support cd buying because although the artist may be rich there are many poor songwriters out there that the money goes to but in saying that i still download a bit. If music was taken to a price like 10c a song (legal download) then people could buy 1000 songs for $100 and if a song sold 1 million copies, say $50,000 would go to the artist if they get half of all the sales. It seems pretty reasonable to me. If not raise it to 20c that is still very reasonable.

Legal downloading needs to be easier cheaper and better quality before it can overtake illegal downloading.

I have many times downloaded an artist, really liked them so i saw their show. I ended up buying cd's and t-shirts at their show so i support artists, especially local and smaller ones, when i can.