Avatar is not the only story thats been retold

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Vaer

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ezeroast said:
well its actually more original than 90% of movies
How so ? cause just like you I can come and say oo Avatar is less original then 90% of the other movies.

In any case, Avatar was bad not because the story was unoriginal (or copy pasted :p ) but because it was badly written, acted and generally executed.. it had no logic (flying mountains with waterfalls .. really ? and I could give other examples,you can amaze people without being ridiculous about it ) and the entire primitive species with bows and arrows defeats space faring species is just stupid, everything was exaggerated and over the top.

Also the message that they were trying to send was way too in your face, they could have gone about it in a more subtle manner.

So to summarise :

- it had bad acting ( with some exceptions )
- stupid, over the top, badly written plot
- stupid fucking mountains
- and of course the fact that it was so hyped, praised and sold so well despite being mediocre at best with some nice special effects didn't really help its case
 

DefunctTheory

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Mar 30, 2010
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Ledan said:
.... In space movies there are more American/European people than Indians or Chinese people.
That's all I got.
That, and that I LOVED Avatar. Whoever says that it had poor acting or filming, don't know a good movie when they see one. The story was better than I expected, because I expected drivel.
It was the first movie in a looooooooooooooooong time that had me questioning wether or not the good guys were going to win. For 2 seconds.
It had horrible acting, a story that was so easy to track I knew the ending before I watched the film (Or what little of it I could stomach), and I have no idea why you would ever think the big blue people would ever lose.

And like someone else mentioned: I do NOT like having a moral hammered into my head by a popcorn movie.

But everyone has an opinion. I just think Avatar was James Cameron's abortion.

EDIT: On topic... Eh. I don't mind rehashs as long as there done well and don't pretend to be anything else.
 

JEBWrench

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Lord Krunk said:
From the first couple of posts:

JEBWrench said:
Lord of the Rings was based quite largely of the Nibelungenlied.
MiracleOfSound said:
Star Wars = LOTR
rabidmidget said:
It's kind of obvious but Eragon = Star wars
I'm seeing a pattern here. Now then, who copied the Nibelungenlied?
The Nibelungenlied was inspired by old beer hall stories and songs!
 

jboking

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I didn't care for Avatar, but I couldn't really tell you why. That is, I don't know why I didn't like it, I just didn't. It seemed like an okay movie to me with an ending that was a little too happy by my standards. The 3D was fine, though, more often than not I feel 3D distracts from the film itself in favor of the 'awe' of 3D.

As for overdone stories, coming of age stories have been done to death.

Demon ID said:
You clearly haven't read my epic novel spanning the cheese covered armadillo aristocrat life in the wars of a slightly soiled but still usable linens. It also covers life after the war from the perspective of his trusty sidekick, the bug invested magically alive laundry.
I'll buy five copies.
 

Marmooset

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Heck, in the New Testament, they tell the same freaking story four times!

You'd think they could have dropped a couple and added some sword fights.
 

RyanBishop

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I never had any major problem with Avatar and/or its' success... Jimmy needed some pocket change and a reminder why he is the megauberawesomest director in the biz... so he went and made a movie, what's not to like? It's flashy, somewhat entertaining... and in 3D! (oohhh people like 3D, don't they? Yeah... judging by all the $$$ this flick made)

My only issue with Avatar is that it is literally everywhere! Fucking everywhere, I tell you! All the TV's in electronic stores play the same preview vid - Avatar. All around there are adverts and giant stacks of Avatar DVD's and Bluray's... And hell, it's STILL running in the movie theatres! I am becoming literally sick of blue cat-people and flying mountains. Argh.

OT: The numerous "special agent" stories... 007, Bourne... All have been retold countless times.
 

McShizzle

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Marmooset said:
Heck, in the New Testament, they tell the same freaking story four times!

You'd think they could have dropped a couple and added some sword fights.
That is sacriliscious. :)
 

Doitpow

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JEBWrench said:
Lord Krunk said:
From the first couple of posts:

JEBWrench said:
Lord of the Rings was based quite largely of the Nibelungenlied.
MiracleOfSound said:
Star Wars = LOTR
rabidmidget said:
It's kind of obvious but Eragon = Star wars
I'm seeing a pattern here. Now then, who copied the Nibelungenlied?
The Nibelungenlied was inspired by old beer hall stories and songs!
I am told the the Nibelungenlied=Þiðrekssaga, by someone who is studying German.

And as every also knows Anne McCaffery went forward in time and copied Eragon.

Oh and OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heroesjourney.svg
the MONOMYTH!!!!

The only original film ever made is The Thing.
 

Marmooset

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McShizzle said:
Marmooset said:
Heck, in the New Testament, they tell the same freaking story four times!

You'd think they could have dropped a couple and added some sword fights.
That is sacriliscious. :)
The very mention of that word makes me smile:
 

JEBWrench

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Doitpow said:
I am told the the Nibelungenlied=Þiðrekssaga, by someone who is studying German.
I know that the operas are based off Germanic epics, I just don't know the precise name, so your associate may be quite correct.
 

Soushi

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As an author, i will tell ya, it is really really difficult to come up with new and original stuff. I mean, before i even saw Avatar i had written a story about some primitive but spiritual people on a far away planet who were being exploited for a medical resource by a big bad company and it was up to teh hero, a protagonist who had been infected with a virus that was slwoly changing him into one of teh natives of teh planet, to rally them in defense of thier world in an epic battle. The most delicious irony is that i had just finished it the day before i went to see Avatar. *shakes fist* damn it cameron, you're lucky i liked your blue people or i would be pissed right off!

My point is, alot of good ideas have already been used before, to the point that it is nearly impossible to find or create somehting that doesn't come across as a rip off at some point or another. The challenge then, is not to worry so much about it, but to focus on how the story is told. Lord of the Rings for example, and Avatar, pretty simple story lines, but they were told in such a way that it became more than the sum of thier parts, it became an enjoyable experience. So, rather than focussing on "who had the idea first" lets try focussing on the movies own merits. Avatar was great becasue of its presentation, not just the stunning visuals, but becasue the enviroment and the universe it created was beautiful and immersive. Even though the characters were cut and pasted stock characters, they worked and were likeable.

I do wish people would stop hating on Avatar just becasue it is popular though. I am sure some people actaully don't like it, but i am sure many more are just 'hating it' becasue they like the idea of being in the 'cool' crowd. If they paid attention to the movie more closely, they would find that a lot of thier complaints are actually not really that valid.

Although it is frustrating, there are so many little things that the movie could have done that would have made it a whole lot better. Oh well, here's hoping that the next one will be attending the Dark Knight School of Sequelage.
 

Acidwell

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Jun 13, 2009
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The thing is Robin Hood is always going to be robin hood. You don't go to a robin hood film or a sherlock holmes film expecting a completely new story, yeah there will be some new elements but mostly it will be the standard story for that series.

The problem begins when you get a brand new film with nothing to do with any series that takes an old story, that way people are surprised and disappointed with this "new" film.

You see most stories are retold often but its only when they pass them off as new or revolutionary that they are annoying.
 

Cekil1

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kingcom said:
No, thats not why people dislike Avatar. Stop making it up. People dislike it because its a poor quality movie (weak plot, hammy acting though probably because of the terrible script, a sledgehammer message, and frankly unbelieveable disparity between an advanced and primitive culture) which is treated like the greatest advancemnet in moviemaking and science fiction, although the copy paste job just doesnt help the already bad movie.
I've been ninja'ed D:

tellmeimaninja said:
Avatar certainly did not have an original story but the people who say it was a bad movie are mostly the people who think hating on popular things makes them edgy.
kingcom said:
Why do people make up reasons for why other people believe what they do?
Because some people think that hating on other people's opinions makes them edgy... whoa, we're starting to talk in circles.

People, at the end of the day it's the journey that matters and I didn't like Sam's journey in Avatar. Does that make me a "hater" or someone trying to be "edgy"?

F*** NO!

It means I have an opinion just like the people who did like the movie. We can talk about this all day, but I think this is a pretty good summation of what the debate boils down to. Good day to you all.
 

Ryokai

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bat_trapper said:
I think the reason most people disliked Avatar that I've heard was the story has been told many times. I personally liked Avatar and dont think "Its been told before." is a very good argument because lots of current stories have been retold. My example is the newest Robin Hood. Theres been lots of movies of it, but noone is saying its been done before. So what I want from you is: Name current stories that have been told many times but noone is bitching about them.
I didn't like the fact that the humans LOST. Alright, sure were the bad guys, but I was rooting for us.
 

The Hungry Samurai

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Marmooset said:
Heck, in the New Testament, they tell the same freaking story four times!

You'd think they could have dropped a couple and added some sword fights.
Now that you mention it how many ways has the story of Jesus been retold? Seriously from Narnia to The Matrix....
 

AcacianLeaves

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bat_trapper said:
I think the reason most people disliked Avatar that I've heard was the story has been told many times. I personally liked Avatar and dont think "Its been told before." is a very good argument because lots of current stories have been retold. My example is the newest Robin Hood. Theres been lots of movies of it, but noone is saying its been done before. So what I want from you is: Name current stories that have been told many times but noone is bitching about them.
No. You misunderstand the criticism. It isn't that the vague "man joins natives to fight his own people" story has been done before, it's that the "War veteran with a debilitating injury finds a way to overcome the restrictions of said injury by living with and eventually falling in love with the natives that he was originally sent to fight, before leading said natives into an unlikely victory against the empirical oppressors" story has been done before.

Anyway, Avatar wasn't just bad because it was unoriginal. Originality doesn't automatically make things good, and lack of originality doesn't automatically make things bad. Some things mentioned in this thread are unoriginal and yet very enjoyable. Also some things are very original and are just god-awful, like Final Fantasy X-2.

Avatar was just an easy target for the 'unoriginal' label because it was so blatant and unabashed in the amount it ripped off. Whereas many fantasy novels and games of today certainly 'rip off' Tolkein, they change enough of the fundamentals and style that each one is a largely new experience told in familiar territory.

Can we stop telling people who dislike something that's popular that the only reason they dislike it is due to its popularity? Are you guys really such single-minded fanboys that you can't see that the targets of your fandom have flaws? Admit that you like these things in spite of their flaws, rather than try to shout at people "IT HAS NO FLAWS, YOU JUST DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE ITS FAMOUS!"
 

AcacianLeaves

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Acidwell said:
The thing is Robin Hood is always going to be robin hood. You don't go to a robin hood film or a sherlock holmes film expecting a completely new story, yeah there will be some new elements but mostly it will be the standard story for that series.

The problem begins when you get a brand new film with nothing to do with any series that takes an old story, that way people are surprised and disappointed with this "new" film.

You see most stories are retold often but its only when they pass them off as new or revolutionary that they are annoying.
Amen to that, sir. Some of my favorite movies are Bond films, and they are pretty much literally the exact same plot copy-pasted a few dozen times with different actors. Hell sometimes they don't even change the actors, and I still love them.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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I think the main thing people hated about Avatar's story is that they were expecting MORE from the guy that brought so many complex stories like the first two Terminator movies, Titanic, Aliens, and so many others. Going in to the theater expecting some character driven epic but only to find that the story was basically Ferngully with blue people instead of fairy's and the lumber jacks have guns. We were expecting more from the guy that brought terror with an almost but not quite human Arnold, then managed to turn that fear into a father in that films sequel.
 

Treefingers

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Aug 1, 2008
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bat_trapper said:
My example is the newest Robin Hood.
Robin Hood isn't trying to pass itself off as something new though.

Besides, i enjoyed Avatar enough, but the clichéd storyline was one of a number of things that make me think it is severely overrated.

Lykon said:
I'd just like to point out that Avatar isn't Pochahontas in space... its Fern Gully
No, it's both and more.

AshPox said:
Every American romantic comedy ever made.
This.

Furburt said:
...others act like it will bring the downfall of cinema.
While this is obviously far too extreme, i do have a huge disliking for the rising number of 3D films following Avatar's success.