Bands these days, those sell-outs.

[Lukirre]

In my history of listening to music I've come across this term many, many times.
"Selling out."
Apparently, it means that a band or artist has changed their style to appeal to the mass audience in an attempt to make a greater income.
However, it seems to be thrown around whenever a band changes their sound.

People thought Tool sold out with the release of Lateralus, because it wasn't as gruff.
People assumed Opeth sold out when they joined Roadrunner Records, just because of the label company.

Why is it that people like to throw around this term whenever a group of artists changes their style, or makes a different career move?
What is the difference between selling out and "refining" or "maturing" ones' sound?

What bands do you know of that have genuinely "sold out"?

 

[Trivun]

I can't think of any. Any band I've known to change their style has done it for the better. Linkin Park, for example, were always awesome, but their last album (Minutes to Midnight) was even better to me because it was ever so different to their earlier stuff. Sometimes, a band changing it's style can be a good thing, if done simply for the fans and to utilise different directions. Coldplay were brilliant anyway, but were even better when they released Viva La Vida (the album, not the single). They changed their style and even did a remix of Lost (called Lost+) with Jay-Z, which really suited their new style

 

[Lukirre]

Because they're the "real fans," and they think the band should cater exclusively to them.

The egotistic fucks.
Seriously, band members need to eat. That requires money.

Things like "Why can't they play the way they did on ..." and "Bring back old ..." are what get me.
What's the point of making music if it's the same?
There's no artistic development.
There can be no expression if the message is overdone.

Egotistic fucks, indeed.

 

[hagaya]

Panic! At The Disco is dead to me.
Green Day ate some bad chocolate, refused to get haircuts, dressed in baggy clothing and dyed everything black.
Blink-182 is two different bands after the self-titled.

Enough alternative.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

it's not so much a sound change but more or less HOW they change their sound, take metallica they went more poppy metal and went away from their roots, hence they sold out

a sell out band is one that just makes music for the money and either changes their sound to be poppy or keeps the same one, a good example is rage against the machine that kept the same damn sound

see the thing about Tool is they didn't sell out with Lateralus, it was an evolved sound and it had been many years since the last Tool album, well full length one, that a lot of people forgot that sounds change

i've often heard the argument about bands selling out by joining certain labels but it really depends on what they do with their sound after they join the label, continuing to evolve is good, keeping it the same is being a sell out

 

[quack35]

Who do they appoint to make the judgment on what bands "sell out", anyway?

 

[Hazy]

Think like a musician: (Not a singer, those arrogant bastards.. [Just a joke, of course])
Either die of hunger, or you disappoint a percentage of Hardcore fans by changing your style.
Everyone would choose the latter. If they really are your "Hardcore" fans, they will like your music regardless of style.

Look at Avenged Sevenfold. They used to scream, But their vocalist, Matt Shadows, wanted to stop. This led to a more general audience getting wind of them, and them becoming famous. Does that make them sellouts? Thats debatable, but the point of this anecdote is that I still listen to them, even though they have changed their style. If you are good, people will like you. Simple as that.

 

[GammaZord]

I think people throw "selling out" around so much because the litseners become so close to a band that they begin to idealize their sound at the time. Any slightest change in that sound it is deemed a 'sell out' because the fans have molded the band (and themselves somewhat) around their conception of the band and its purpose.

The Tool example you gave was great; I consider lateralus to be their best album because it is their most mature or "refined." Radiohead is another example. Their first record, Pablo Honey was good, but still conventional-- in the grunge sense. After that they strayed from their "original" sound to a much more unique and IMO, better band.

I guess the way to discern between "selling out" and maturing is the band's intent in changing. Of course, it's hard to know definitevly what a band's intent is.

BTW, Weezer "sold out" (see: "Beverly Hills")

 

[Lukirre]

it's not so much a sound change but more or less HOW they change their sound, take metallica they went more poppy metal and went away from their roots, hence they sold out

a sell out band is one that just makes music for the money and either changes their sound to be poppy or keeps the same one, a good example is rage against the machine that kept the same damn sound

see the thing about Tool is they didn't sell out with Lateralus, it was an evolved sound and it had been many years since the last Tool album, well full length one, that a lot of people forgot that sounds change

i've often heard the argument about bands selling out by joining certain labels but it really depends on what they do with their sound after they join the label, continuing to evolve is good, keeping it the same is being a sell out

Quite right.
Hence why I don't understand why it is the term gets thrown around so much.

I always thought that Ten Thousand Days was a step in the right direction for Tool. I mean, this album sounds nothing like the others. The production quality is much better, and much of the album focuses on more atmospheric aspects.

Yet still, people are right there pointing the finger as soon as it's released.

 

[alwaysrockon]

well ozzi ozborne, thats for sure. and apart from rock(its too late and cant really think straight) almost every rapper known to the magical corrupting device known as the "radio".

 

[Lukirre]

well ozzi ozborne, thats for sure. and apart from rock(its too late and cant really think straight) almost every rapper known to the magical corrupting device known as the "radio".

Can "artists" or groups be considered sell outs when they begin in a mainstream career?

See: Nickelback.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I give less than a rat's ass about a band "selling out," so I can never tell. I just ask myself, "Does their music still sound good?"

I think Frank Zappa said it best.

 

[Whistler777]

The reason egotistic fucks (like me) care about whether or not a band sells out is because we'd prefer they stick with a unique sound, rather than simply catering to the next childish fad. I'm not the sort to call a band sellouts if they change their sound, as the change can actually bring about a very welcome sound (Death's transition from death metal to progressive metal with the release of "The Sound of Perseverance" is a classic example).

I think that you've got us confused. We don't bash a band for wanting to go in a different direction (we referring here to a general term to express an advanced sect of music fans, that is), we bash a band for outright attention/money whoring. Take Green Day for example: before "American Idiot", they were a shitty punk band. Afterward, they turned into a shitty Emo band and therefore instantly opened themselves up for ridicule.

Of course, to someone who liked them in the first place, this change may have come as a real disappointment, and I'm sorry that fans of their earlier work have had to put up with such garbage. But the fact is that selling out is just that: attention whoring.

If you cannot catch the public eye and turn a profit by your talent alone, or care so much about fame and fortune that you'd let your music take a backseat to your ego, you deserve all the scorn and lost album sales we can heap onto you.

 

[Dys]

Selling out is usually when an indipendant band changes it's image, sound and record label, forsaking their fans for fame and money. Opeth going to roadrunner records could be seen as selling out.
Greenday are pretty famous for selling out too. I can see why it annoys loyal fans, as they have always stood by bands, and with punk bands there are usually a lot of anti-record company/anti-capitalist ideals associated with them. Would anyone bother listening to bad religon if they signed with a major record label? Didn't think so..

 

[Trivun]

BTW, Weezer "sold out" (see: "Beverly Hills")

How was that selling out? That song is a great parody of the celebrity lifestyle, in the same vein as Nickelback's 'Rockstar' and Good Charlotte's 'Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous'. I actually loved that song when I first heard it.

To me a sellout is simply someone who sacrifices what makes them great simply for the sake of making money or becoming famous. That's all. Going away from their roots isn't selling out, nor is it a problem if they still sound good, even if they aren't the same as before. Hell, Miley Cyrus has actually gotten better since moving away from her roots, as an example (although she's still crap, just better than the Hannah Montana times, that said she started out as a sellout and moved away from that over time... :s).

 

[Lukirre]

The reason egotistic fucks (like me) care about whether or not a band sells out is because we'd prefer they stick with a unique sound, rather than simply catering to the next childish fad. I'm not the sort to call a band sellouts if they change their sound

Then you're not an egotistical fuck.

I think there comes a line between accurately labelling as sell outs, and just expressing disinterest in new material.

I know that there are bands out there that deserve being called sell-outs for everything that term is worth.
However, I think that the majority of people who choose to use the aforementioned term use it out of context, and that has become so rampant.
It's become the "default" insult, if you will.

You make solid points, however.

 

[Matronadena]

I've said it a million times, and I 'll say it again.. the second anyone accepts a penny for their skill, be it music, or art.. they sold out.. it's just part of business that can't be avoided.

so thats my stand at least.. once your thrown to the public sharks you do what is needed to stay competitive in that industry, even if its something that may be...not to your preferences.

 

[diamondeggplant]

A Day to Remember is given a lot of shit for this (as my friends are quick to remind me), but I think if a band wants to change their style for a more experimental feel, that's fine. As long as no one's dictating their style and it's completely band-driven, it isn't selling out.