Barack Obama and Socialism

[wisefatmatt]

This is my first post so I hope I don't sound too stupid. I like the tenets of socialism. The rich give back to the lower classes, it seems fair. But to actually say that the left wingers (me for example) tell people you can't make something of yourself? How ridiculous. I have never advocated, and never heard anyone advocate this. But think of this. Can we all be CEO's, can we all be president, can we all be an Einstein? The answer is a resounding no. Also, to the people who say that socialism takes away the incentive to do great things, I strongly disagree. We have many countries that are socialist, and I'm pretty sure they have CEO's too. Just because you can't be super rich doesn't mean you can't afford a mansion or a nice car. I just means you can't own 3 mansions. Some people say health care isn't a right. I agree. But I still support government health care. Just because you don't have a fundamental right of something, doesn't mean you shouldn't have it. We are a relatively well off country with a lot of sick people who don't have health care. If we were some third world country, we wouldn't have the money, so I wouldn't be advocating this. But since we are, and have the ability to do so, I say go.

Before I go, I found your (Mistah Kurtz)comparison to the right to food appalling. No one says you have the right to eat. But if you saw a starving man and had some extra food wouldn't you give him some? I certainly hope so! If you can't tell, I'm comparing the food example to socialism. I know that was blunt, but I don't want people to miss my point. Anyway, I hope we can keep the discussion going.

 

[BLOONINJA 503]

yo guys all the history defining momments usually happen without all these $5 words and constant bickering... its ALWAYS been done with action not words and since this website has something to do with games I'll stop with this BF:Bad Company quote "Acta non Verba"

commance hating a 16 year old kid trying to get this thread a little more...entertaining

 

[Mistah Kurtz]

Are you suggesting that socialism is a bad thing? I realy don't have time to read the full post, but let's be real here: socialism is a good thing. Even fictional Jesus was a socialist.

How somebody who has enough intelligence to use a keyboard can say this with a straight face is beyond me. Every socialist society has lead to a dictatorship and then crumbled under it's own stupidity. The concept is stupid, the practice is idiotic, and the supporters are hippie pot smoking college students who are going to be embarrassed with themselves when they look back on this type of idiocy. Socialism is NOT a good thing, and it has never BEEN a good thing.
And FYI, Jesus wasn't a 'socialist'. There's no evidence supporting that other than a few passages such as acts chapter 4 and the quote about how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven. This is not an attack on capitalism, this is encouragement of charity. I suggest you actually read the bible before you even attempt to make comments like this.

yo guys all the history defining momments usually happen without all these $5 words and constant bickering... its ALWAYS been done with action not words and since this website has something to do with games I'll stop with this BF:Bad Company quote "Acta non Verba"

commance hating a 16 year old kid trying to get this thread a little more...entertaining

Sounds like you know your bad company quotes. Why don't you go back to playing it?

 

[James Raynor]

If you ask me Socialism can be a very good thing if implemented correctly.

 

[TheDean]

Are you suggesting that socialism is a bad thing? I realy don't have time to read the full post, but let's be real here: socialism is a good thing. Even fictional Jesus was a socialist.

How somebody who has enough intelligence to use a keyboard can say this with a straight face is beyond me. Every socialist society has lead to a dictatorship and then crumbled under it's own stupidity. The concept is stupid, the practice is idiotic, and the supporters are hippie pot smoking college students who are going to be embarrassed with themselves when they look back on this type of idiocy. Socialism is NOT a good thing, and it has never BEEN a good thing.
And FYI, Jesus wasn't a 'socialist'. There's no evidence supporting that other than a few passages such as acts chapter 4 and the quote about how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven. This is not an attack on capitalism, this is encouragement of charity. I suggest you actually read the bible before you even attempt to make comments like this.

yo guys all the history defining momments usually happen without all these $5 words and constant bickering... its ALWAYS been done with action not words and since this website has something to do with games I'll stop with this BF:Bad Company quote "Acta non Verba"

commance hating a 16 year old kid trying to get this thread a little more...entertaining

Sounds like you know your bad company quotes. Why don't you go back to playing it?

wrong. Jesus helped people in his community. That is trhe core of socialism. And yes, it can work, if we remove the problem--leadership. It cannot crumble into a dictatorship if there is no leader.

 

[TheDean]

How somebody who has enough intelligence to use a keyboard can say this with a straight face is beyond me. Every socialist society has lead to a dictatorship and then crumbled under it's own stupidity. The concept is stupid, the practice is idiotic, and the supporters are hippie pot smoking college students who are going to be embarrassed with themselves when they look back on this type of idiocy. Socialism is NOT a good thing, and it has never BEEN a good thing.
And FYI, Jesus wasn't a 'socialist'. There's no evidence supporting that other than a few passages such as acts chapter 4 and the quote about how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven. This is not an attack on capitalism, this is encouragement of charity. I suggest you actually read the bible before you even attempt to make comments like this.



wrong. Jesus helped people in his community. That is trhe core of socialism. And yes, it can work, if we remove the problem--leadership. It cannot crumble into a dictatorship if there is no leader.
EDIT: and please don't insult my intelligence, that only makes you look unintelligent.
oh, and i do read the bible.

 

[TheDean]

i don't know what your getting at because i don't know enoguh about politics, but Jesus clearly was a socialist. THat is the fictional character Jesus who was in the Bible. I'm not even getting into whether a historical jesus existed--i'm just commenting on him from a purely fictional standpoint.

Eh, I often joked that Jesus invented the bread line but in all honesty Jesus would not be a socialist. He'd probably be more of a proponent of the kibitz system in all honesty.

Christians believe in giving to the masses, not forcefully taking and then giving to the masses. Taxatian itself is considered immoral and is a constant theme revisited in the Bible as a bad thing.

taxation is bad. but without it how would we get things like healthcare and such? And i reckon Jesus was a socialist. He gave to his community. He was all about the community. THat is the very foundation of socialism. And i'm nto even going nearthe question of whether hewas real, i'm speaking strictly from the character portrayed in the bible.

 

[Bronzebow]

taxation is bad. but without it how would we get things like healthcare and such? And i reckon Jesus was a socialist. He gave to his community. He was all about the community. THat is the very foundation of socialism. And i'm nto even going nearthe question of whether hewas real, i'm speaking strictly from the character portrayed in the bible.

I disagree. The difference here is the force being used. Taxation is absolutely not bad and a necessary part of holding a government for it to be funded. It's the method from which we are taxed, amount, and what these taxes are used for that brings up an issue.

Yes, Jesus did help His community, but that seems to be where a logical breakdown occurs when referring to him as socialist. People think that this is the same as taking everyone's money into a pool and distributing it, that this is the same as taking matters into your own hands and helping where you can. Increasing taxes on rich and using that to fund health care (just as an example) for all, unfortunately, is not an example of this. People have issues with the cost of health care in America, crying to daddy federal gov to fix the problems without even realizing that it's daddy federal gov that caused it to begin with. It sounds all nice and good to say that socialism "has the community at heart." So does communism. Both system would work GREAT in a perfect world. Needless to say, that's not the case.

I might add that this $250k limit of taxes for Obama? That includes businesses, thanks to corporate personhood. Tax business, lose jobs. Lose jobs, we get deeper into this rabbit hole. Socialistic policies that Obama suggests are absolutely great at causing a thousand unseen problems to try (and fail) to tackle the visible one. After all, giving money to kids to go to college absolutely will not cause colleges to raise their tuition at all, right? The federal government should absolutely NOT be a place for everyone to go to fix their problems. In fact, the increasing power of the federal gov is causing much more of a backlash with companies lobbying to have their own versions of laws put into place. It's a damn scary nightmare how many people are looking at the fed to fix problems they need to fix themselves, and continually electing people who promise--and fail--to do that.

You ask how we would get national health care without taxation? Simple. Reduce the taxes on everyone, dismantle large portions of the bloated federal government so that they don't need this money, take away government subsidies for health and medical which are the cause of the U.S.'s expensive health care, and let actual competition open up. Fixing a problem caused by taking too much money from people and giving too much to health and medical is not going to be fixed by taking more money from people and giving more of it to health and medical. Health care would become affordable, hospitals would no longer be ABLE to charge the exhortation fees they do now, and the federal gov would get its grubby hands where they do not belong.

Of course, this is being brought to us by the same...unintelligent people in Washington that are trying to fix a problem caused by excessive forced credit by creating more excessive forced credit. Go figure.

(For the record, I'm not voting for McCain. People tend to take criticism of Obama as being in the bucket for the second turd running in the big office. They both suck. Go third party.)

 

[Roffey123]

Actually, the market would help you, not God. I thought you commies were godless anyway?

First off, f*** you, you bigot. I'll have you know I'm Catholic, so why don't you bugger off to the 50s where you belong.

Secondly, there is a difference between Socialism and Communism - a fact that eludes most people - and the moment that the "S" word is mentioned they immediately think Stalin and Breshnev. Stalin Obama ain't. That being said, it took Stalin from the time he took power in the 1920s to make the Soviet Union a superpower by the end of WW2 - while the most of rest of the world was suffering from the depression, which, oh yes, was started by the US. That's not in support of Communism (I'd rather live in the US than China say, certianly) - its just something I'd thought would be worth mentioning.

There's nothing wrong with Social welfare when its services everyone should be able to access, Health Care, most importantly. But of course what I think of selfishness come up with you - YOUR money paying for THEIR mistakes. YOUR money is paying for Iraq, I think that's a massive mistake, oh so slightly larger than a drunkard who can't control himself. You want a decent health service? You f***ing well make an effort to educate your society. Oh wait, can't do that, your schools are terrible. Oh well.

Have I come on too stong? Ban away.

 

[TomNook]

*munches popcorn*

 

[simon2it]

Jesus Christ I'm tired of people criticizing Obama for being a socialist.

Even if he is, there's nothing wrong with that. I live in Denmark, and we're way more socialistic than what Obama is saying. And you know what? In numerous studies we have been shown to have some of the happiest people in the world, some of the best schools, and one of the best health care systems out there. The reason we have this is all tied to high taxes and socialism.

Now in recent years, especially, our health care system has gotten worse and worse. And it all happened since we adopted more USA-like tendencies in the way we operate.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

taxation is bad. but without it how would we get things like healthcare and such? And i reckon Jesus was a socialist. He gave to his community. He was all about the community. THat is the very foundation of socialism. And i'm nto even going nearthe question of whether hewas real, i'm speaking strictly from the character portrayed in the bible.

Again, Jesus preached about giving willingly. Socialism and taxation are mandatory practices. A communal style of living or a Kibitz system is not the same as socialism.

 

[Bronzebow]

Jesus Christ I'm tired of people criticizing Obama for being a socialist.

Even if he is, there's nothing wrong with that. I live in Denmark, and we're way more socialistic than what Obama is saying. And you know what? In numerous studies we have been shown to have some of the happiest people in the world, some of the best schools, and one of the best health care systems out there. The reason we have this is all tied to high taxes and socialism.

Now in recent years, especially, our health care system has gotten worse and worse. And it all happened since we adopted more USA-like tendencies in the way we operate.

The population and size of Denmark is about the same as the population of one of our smaller states. You can't compare like that.

America was originally designed so that states can and should design such systems themselves if they so desire. California wants to tax it's citizens and have california public health care? Good for them, people will move in or out depending if they like it or not. But health care controlled by the bloated bureaucracy that is the united states of America federal government? It'd be more like the U.N. taxing and providing health care for Denmark and about fifty of your surrounding countries. Try working THAT out successfully

 

[simon2it]

I know it's different, but you can't argue that a lot of rich people can afford the higher taxes. And that it will help out if the extra money gained from the government are spent on making the life better for everyone.