Batman and Superman "Facing Off" in Man of Steel Sequel

[knight4light]

Spoiler: Superman wins.

(Honestly, if the film shows anything other than a complete non-contest when these two fight, it's kidding itself. Batman's great, and I don't like Superman that much, but superstrength + laser eyes + flying > martial arts + body armour + bat-themed vehicles).

In DC lore, Batman has a Kryptonite ring as a contingency measure for if Superman ever goes apeshit. Likely he'll end up grabbing that for the inevitable confrontation.

Oh, nice. That's something I would be happy to accept.

Yeah, he even keeps the ring on his utility belt at all times, it's part of his standard load-out. If Superman does flip out, you wouldn't want to have to make a trip back to the Batcave to grab it.

Beyond that though, Batman is arguably even more Deus Ex Machina than Superman. Provided he has time to analyze the foe he's going to be facing down, he will ALWAYS find their weakness and exploit the hell out of it.

He can literally take down every single member of the Justice League single handedly, since apparently he keeps files on ALL of them on how he can kick their asses if need be. Seriously, nothing can beat the Bat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLA:_Tower_of_Babel

sorry but no. kryptonite ring. kryptonite bullet. all those plannings dont mean a thing here. one. dark knight return stories are writen by a person who has stated he hates superman. two. there is no kryptonite in this world as of yet. three batman would not know of supermans weakness because superman barely revealed himself. there is no magic yet to show superman that weakness.

even if he gets kryptonite. in the comics bats only was ever able to land a few punches before his hand broke.

the only way i see batman winning is this.

because of how he finished off zod and the impact that has on him. he probably vowed to never kill again. and with that if hes fighting batman who he knows is just a human he will probably be ripping himself apart inside trying to hold back everything so he doesnt kill him.

so the only way superman would ever lose is if he lets batman win. unto which they become buddies and start the justice league etc etc

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

For starters, I was talking about Batman in general, not as it will apply in this specific movie. It's canon that Batman has a plan to beat every other hero in the DC universe. Beyond that, I doubt they're going to ACTUALLY have a Batman vs Superman movie. It'd be neat, but you'd have VERY pissed off fans no matter which side won. There might be a Captain America/Iron Man rivalry between the two of them at first, but before anything serious happens they'll unit to stop some big threat. And IF they fight it's bound to end in a draw.

 

[Warachia]

It's not that he loved killing, it's that he killed, and he did have a choice, but that's an argument for another thread.
Maybe the reason Superman doesn't kill is because he was a guy who put on a costume and went out to help people, that's it. Telling a person like that, that they should kill is incredibly selfish, he's not a murderer (at least before MoS), but according to you anybody with abilities who wants to help others should act only according to your vision.

It's a matter of WHO he's fighting that makes the difference. Superman would be a dick, if not outright evil, if he just killed any random thug who broke the law when they can't even scratch him. However, Superman goes up against threats able to demolish cities if not wipe out all of Earth pretty much every time. These kind of people are DANGEROUS, it's perfectly reasonable that he would kill them given the chance. Zod was going to kill all life on the planet, and even then Superman only killed him when he had no other choice. His choices were either let those people die, or kill Zod, there was no way he could have possibly got out of that.

It's not perfectly reasonable, you are asking a regular to become a murderer, if that doesn't sound crazy to you then you need to step back and look at your argument, incidentally, if we were looking past this movie, the DC government is powerful, they have heroes working for them and technology that could kill Superman, anything Superman can kill they would be able to as well, there's no reason to turn somebody into a murderer if you can condemn them through the legal system.

What's interesting is I've never once thought Zod would actually kill everyone after his world engine was destroyed, he wanted to die, that's why he wasn't resisting when Superman had him in a headlock, and why he said he wouldn't stop, and he never said he'd go on to kill everyone after he realized he was the last one, sure he'd kill everyone before the world engine died, but after that, there's no point, there's ways to bring people out of the phantom zone, and he wouldn't waste them.

Incidentally, they could have easily held a trial for Zod, knock him out, then put him in a room that sunlight can't reach (or in a room with a red sunlight generator), he loses his powers then anybody with a gun can kill him no problem.

Even Superman 4 (a really terrible movie) figured out that you can just fight in an area without sunlight until the villain loses their powers, in this movie not only does Superman fight like an idiot, he doesn't even try to contain Zod, or mitigate the collateral damage they are both causing to the city.

One more, 4 things superman could do other than the choices you gave:
1. FLY FUCKING UP.
2. Fly down.
3. Turn Zod's head slightly.
4. Cover Zod's eyes.

ALL of these would have saved those people who were just waiting to get killed and not making any attempt to get away from the lasers.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

we'll see how this goes. At the very least we WON'T see Bale back. He's done with the series and so we'd better get ready for a new Batman (and I do feel sorry for the guy who has to follow up Bale's magnificent act).

 

[Ninja_Bob117]

Spoiler: Superman wins.

(Honestly, if the film shows anything other than a complete non-contest when these two fight, it's kidding itself. Batman's great, and I don't like Superman that much, but superstrength + laser eyes + flying > martial arts + body armour + bat-themed vehicles).

Sorry but Batman is more popular and so he is going to win...

 

[Final Freefall]

I don't see how superman can win, he's a superior creature who can hear people whispering from thousands of miles away, yet he is continually matched by a billionaire industrialist who monologues to himself.

 

[Lrbearclaw]

Let's see a live-action version of the Batman/Superman TAS movie "World's Finest" and call it a day. Since it is a reboot of Bats (again) they can save time on scripting as the story was great AND bring Harley to movies.

Win/Win.

 

[luvd1]

Why are people still bitching about the killing of Zod? At lease you saw him die unlike Zod in superman 2 where they killed him off screen.

OT. Batman can't physically beat superman only out wit him but I doubt that's how it's going to go. It's going to be the standard ego face off fight to stalemate, reliese they have things in common and become BFF before fighting the real bit bad. Might not be original but it's better then how they first met in the comics... Jezz, that's bad. Anyway before anyone starts calling Avengers did that first, they didn't . All buddy films use that formula from the beginning of time. It will be interesting how they tell it that should be good.

 

[Vrach]

Spoiler: Superman wins.

(Honestly, if the film shows anything other than a complete non-contest when these two fight, it's kidding itself. Batman's great, and I don't like Superman that much, but superstrength + laser eyes + flying > martial arts + body armour + bat-themed vehicles).

^This. Superman was shown to punch Zod through buildings, and he's another superbeing. If they show Batman just blocking that, it'll just make for a fantastic comedy movie.

As for the Man of Steel, it was pretty weak. It was watchable... if you liked superhero movies, but that's the best that can be said of it. Making the sequel out of something that's just fanservice sounds like a potential for more bollocks.

 

[Spacefrog]

But how to threaten the man of steel? Well let's see
1)There have been no hits of Kryptonite yet (But that does not mean that it can't be introduced)
2) Since Nolan is involved we can probably rule out magic
3) Red sunlight is still a factor, and have been made into a weapon in both the comic and the animated universe
4) Match him in strength (There's plenty to choose from even non-kryptonian)
5) Other ways to bypass his invulnerability (Personally I remember; sonic, electric, light and neural based weapons used on him to great effect)

Too bad concussive blasts are ruled out because of the film, Light based weapons are off though because even heat vision doesn't affect him which against Kryptonians only have a Cyclops like effect on each other (anyone else t burns)

How does the film rule out concussive blasts? Did I miss something (Quite possible since I have not seen the man of steel yet, or read all that many interviews on this one)
Also light is more than lasers (Although is was also the first thing I thought of) it could also be hardlight holograms, Think Dr. light (or luminus in the animated series) the heatvision (Weird movie physics aside) is not he most powerful thing in the world, it would not be too far fetched to have weaponry more powerful than that(And even if not Cyclops like effect would be enough, as long as it could hurt him, numbers could make up for the rest)
Also 3) is technically a light based weapon who have been put into gun-for several times in comics

 

[Strazdas]

I dont even know how can this work to begin with. run fast, superpunch, batman is just a splatter on a wall. fight will be over in less than 1 second (since superman is superfast). the only way this woudl work is if they used kryptonite on suoperman, and that i always hate to begin with.

 

[Spacefrog]

But how to threaten the man of steel? Well let's see
1)There have been no hits of Kryptonite yet (But that does not mean that it can't be introduced)
2) Since Nolan is involved we can probably rule out magic
3) Red sunlight is still a factor, and have been made into a weapon in both the comic and the animated universe
4) Match him in strength (There's plenty to choose from even non-kryptonian)
5) Other ways to bypass his invulnerability (Personally I remember; sonic, electric, light and neural based weapons used on him to great effect)

Too bad concussive blasts are ruled out because of the film, Light based weapons are off though because even heat vision doesn't affect him which against Kryptonians only have a Cyclops like effect on each other (anyone else t burns)

How does the film rule out concussive blasts? Did I miss something (Quite possible since I have not seen the man of steel yet, or read all that many interviews on this one)
Also light is more than lasers (Although is was also the first thing I thought of) it could also be hardlight holograms, Think Dr. light (or luminus in the animated series) the heatvision (Weird movie physics aside) is not he most powerful thing in the world, it would not be too far fetched to have weaponry more powerful than that(And even if not Cyclops like effect would be enough, as long as it could hurt him, numbers could make up for the rest)
Also 3) is technically a light based weapon who have been put into gun-for several times in comics

Because bullets and explosive devices in the MoS didn't have any effect on any Kryptonian, they were concussive weapons, even high caliber rounds.
Also the heat vision didn't burn them even Clarks more concentrated blasts it was more like a big push (like Cyclops optic blasts) don't remember seeing it cause visible damage on Zods armour when he took it off.

But that was conventional modern weapons made to fight human opponents.
What of the weaponry of the tree factions I mentioned? (Luthor, Cadmus and Intergang/Apokolyps) weapons who are specifically made to combat beings much more powerful than the average human.
What of other super powered beings?
It is not that force does not work but that they did not apply enough and/or the right kind

 

[Winnosh]

Spoiler: Superman wins.

(Honestly, if the film shows anything other than a complete non-contest when these two fight, it's kidding itself. Batman's great, and I don't like Superman that much, but superstrength + laser eyes + flying > martial arts + body armour + bat-themed vehicles).

In DC lore, Batman has a Kryptonite ring as a contingency measure for if Superman ever goes apeshit. Likely he'll end up grabbing that for the inevitable confrontation.

Oh, nice. That's something I would be happy to accept.

Yeah, he even keeps the ring on his utility belt at all times, it's part of his standard load-out. If Superman does flip out, you wouldn't want to have to make a trip back to the Batcave to grab it.

Beyond that though, Batman is arguably even more Deus Ex Machina than Superman. Provided he has time to analyze the foe he's going to be facing down, he will ALWAYS find their weakness and exploit the hell out of it.

He can literally take down every single member of the Justice League single handedly, since apparently he keeps files on ALL of them on how he can kick their asses if need be. Seriously, nothing can beat the Bat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLA:_Tower_of_Babel

Wouldn't work Batman has Kryptonite because he proved himself a true friend to Superman so Supes gave it to him. and Tower of Babel. Come on. All that has nothing to do with Batman Beating anyone. It proves he had contingency plans that can be enacted to try and take out the JLA He never built any of it. Someone with more money and resources who even altered the plans did it himself and took out Batman using them.


Everyone has PLANS on how to take out people. That doesn't mean said plans will actually work People sit around on comic forums all the time coming up with plan after plan on how to take out this or that superhero or villan Tower of Babel is pretty much the same thing.

 

[The Funslinger]

Spoiler: Superman wins.

(Honestly, if the film shows anything other than a complete non-contest when these two fight, it's kidding itself. Batman's great, and I don't like Superman that much, but superstrength + laser eyes + flying > martial arts + body armour + bat-themed vehicles).

In DC lore, Batman has a Kryptonite ring as a contingency measure for if Superman ever goes apeshit. Likely he'll end up grabbing that for the inevitable confrontation.

Oh, nice. That's something I would be happy to accept.

They'll probably skirt around the side effects, though. Kryptonite emits radiation similar to uranium, and at one point it gave Lex Luthor cancer.

Batman on chemo wouldn't make a particularly thrilling Justice League movie.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The Dark Knight Returns has one of the most hauntingly beautiful internal monologues delivered by a character in any comic book that I've ever read. I'm not a terribly big fan of the rest of Frank Miller's work, but I was moved when even the mighty Superman struggles for life after being struck by a nuclear payload. I don't see how they could possibly translate that scene successfully from the pages of a comic book into a movie.

 

[Ace Morologist]

To WB/Legendary:

Make them friends. Show them having a good time. Show them working together effectively. Show them getting each other's goat in a friendly way once in a while. That's what makes a team-up like this fun. Remember FUN? That's why Avengers was a good movie. (It surely wasn't the "apparently Loki has an alien army in his back pocket and wants to take over the world with it" business that loosely justified the set pieces.)

If the movie isn't fun, you're completely missing the point.

--Morology!

PS: That said, I know you don't give a damn about whether this is really a good movie or not. You know as well as I do (better even) that if you've got Superman and Batman in the same movie we'll show up in droves, shellin out way too much money for ridiculously overpriced tickets just like we did for Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel.

Still, though... C'mon, man. These are four-color superheroes we're talking about. Lighten up. A lot.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Batman can beat Superman, or at least keep up with him. I agree, there are plenty of stories that are painfully outlandish and take it too far, but still; Batman has a supply of Kryptonite, multiple back up plans with safeguards put in place already and he's an intelligent man with a heck of a lot of training. A fight between these two could be close and could have Batman as the winner. But this film will most likely go more towards the stupid and impossible, as opposed the the sensible, though so my point is kind moot. Just defending the Bat... Because clearly, I'm a fan.

The idea of the Batman from the films holding his own against Superman is ridiculous. And he really hasn't held his own in the comics, usually the best he does is when Superman's feeling charitable. That and Batman scales with the threat, making both the Joker AND veritable Gods equal threats. that's the sort of thing that gets played for laughs when Squirrel Girl wins fights, but in Batman, it's SOP.

The latest movie version of Batman is a pretty dumb, boring Batman with focus on the fighting and melodrama. Batman is a skilled detective (the world's greatest, you might say) and an expert in many forms of martial arts. However, the movie will most likely not be written to reflect any of this.

As for Batman Vs Superman in general, there's too many "it depdns" to answer that, really. It depends how far ahead Batman has been able to plan. It depends on how merciful Superman is or how unprepared he is. It depends on this and that. I think it was Hush, when Batman hid in lead lined tunnels and used a kryptonite ring to pummel Superman, who was under the effects of Ivy's poisons (so his mind was foggy and he was holding back). That's a Loeb story, though so that's about as good as it gets from him now.

But a good fight between the two all depends on writing; if it can be done realistically (for superheroes) then it could be pretty close.

Batman's awesome, in the Batman universe. I mean Superman's a genius, Wonder Woman is a warrior who has led armies, Martian Manhunter is kind of a "guider" if not a leader. There's really no good reason to have Batman in the Justice League other than the big kids let him play because he can buy them nice things. Even the human element isn't necessary because you have Flash and Green Lantern.

Batman is there because "wouldn't it be cool if we had all the best characters there?" And that's the source of the lazy writing that surrounds Batman. They need to justify his place there by making him useful somehow.[/quote]

Batman's there because of the detective thing. At least, that should be his main reason. Good writers give him a realistic purpose, a good reason to hang around with aliens and superhumans. He has his uses it's just that writers often fall victim to the "Bat-Fad."

 

[Paradoxrifts]

That sounds feasible but i doubt it, the fact Superman can stand up to a beam that can terraform an entire plant with what probably is technically concentrated gravity it pretty much they need a really big excuse to convince how any other weapon can hurt him, let alone slow him down (short of red sun light and green rock)

The Superman portrayed in Man Of Steel seems to suffer from some form of super-strength negating asthma. He loses all of his superpowers when he is exposed to the atmosphere of General Zod's ship, but regains them when the AI of his father fiddles with the ship's life support functions. It stands to reason that this version of Superman might prove vulnerable to attacks that alter his surrounding environment, such as chemical, biological or nuclear weapons of mass destruction.

There is every possibility that although the initial nuclear strike might not kill the Man Of Steel, the resulting fallout might leave him choking to death on his knees amidst the radioactive ashes.