Batman: Discuss.

[Doclector]

Why? Because I've just finished watching moviebob's latest batman video, and I feel like it.

The thing I've always found interesting about batman is the focus on insanity. Comic book villains have never been excactly poster childs for mental health, but the large majority of batman villains have some sort of mental problems, to the point where it seems nobody in batman media is sent to jail; They're instead sent to a secure asylum. Well, supposedly secure, anyway...

This theme doesn't stop at it's villains though. As the joker has said many times, batman isn't exactly sane either. He's violent, obsessed, and unable to let go of his childhood trauma. He has a moral compass, and a promise never to kill, but aside from that, he's just as mad as any other costumed nut in arkham city. Even his "code" is sometimes displayed as a neurosis, a mental pattern to which he sticks to obsessively, displayed particularly in the finale to arkham city;

Spoiler

When joker accidently smashes the antidote, batman instantly seems to give up on saving him, even seeming a little smug, like to him, the joker stopped deserving any mercy the moment he doomed himself, just because batman didn't actively kill him. In that moment, he becomes absolutely cold and merciless. You couldn't really blame him, because he's been put through an awful lot by the joker, but this sudden change in character really shows.

I fully expect to be ran out of this thread by an angry mob of comic book fans who know far more than me.

So, yeah. Batman. Discuss. Just generally.

 

[Esotera]

Yeah, I've always hated how the Batman series and the mainstream comics in general portray villains as mentally ill, and they don't actually try and treat them. I wouldn't mind so much if there was an equal proportion of good guys that had these illnesses.

And just to state the obvious, dressing up as a Bat and dishing out vigilante justice on villains like giant talking penguins is a textbook form of psychosis. It'd be awesome if it turned out Batman was in fact just a mentally ill guy in this universe.

 

[FalloutJack]

Yeah, I've always hated how the Batman series and the mainstream comics in general portray villains as mentally ill, and they don't actually try and treat them. I wouldn't mind so much if there was an equal proportion of good guys that had these illnesses.

And just to state the obvious, dressing up as a Bat and dishing out vigilante justice on villains like giant talking penguins is a textbook form of psychosis. It'd be awesome if it turned out Batman was in fact just a mentally ill guy in this universe.

Your statement about the villains reminds me of the Grant Morrison comic regarding Arkham Asylum, in which the place is taken over by the inmates on April Fool's Day. This was, of course, a very dark look into a fair few of the villains, Arkham's background, and Batman. The problem here is that you see some of the...treatments and actions performed in an attempt to help the patients.

In the case of Harvey Dent, they wanted to remove his fixation on black-and-white answers by getting rid of the coin and having him throw dice for more answers, more solutions. Then, they moved him on higher into stuff like tarot cards to take this further. The problem is that it started interfering with very normal things like...cleanliness, and so there is a point where Harvey's pissed himself because he couldn't make up his mind to go to the bathroom.

Equally, the Joker was deconstructing Batman's psyche every step of the way, and the effect was...ever-increasing.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

 

[Alternative]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Damn ninja'd me

Batman is never the interesting part of anything to do with Batman

Its his villains that are interesting characters.

 

[Imthatguy]

Comic are gay unappealing to me.

 

[AgentCooper]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

Actually, The Wayne Enterprises part does handle quite a few of those for Gotham City.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Wayne_Enterprises

 

[CODE-D]

Now lets not go listening to the joker....

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

mmmmmmm....you make me sad face...

Your points are that batman doesnt use his money like that. He does actually, it just doesnt work because gotham ruins itself and he has finite amount of money that he can do stuff with and cant employ everyone.

Reminds me of that dream he has in TAS where he hands a homeless person money. Then more run up to him. He gives and gives to them until he runs out and has no more money to give and is saddened. He knows he doesnt have enough money to help everyone the conventional way but he does what he can with charities and fighting crime.....as batman.



(note-I have NEVER thought his dressing up as a bat and fighting criminals crazy.....but maybe im crazy)

Comic are gay unappealing to me.

well then its good that batmans not restricted to comics.

 

[him over there]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

I think the Batman thing makes sense when you consider that Bruce is insane. It isn't better morally but it isn't as stupid. He does it because he's neurotic and obsessed with violence and is totally incapable of letting things go. Plus the extremely unconventional problem of super villains sometimes requires an unconventional solution like a vigilante.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

I think the Batman thing makes sense when you consider that Bruce is insane. It isn't better morally but it isn't as stupid. He does it because he's neurotic and obsessed with violence and is totally incapable of letting things go. Plus the extremely unconventional problem of super villains sometimes requires an unconventional solution like a vigilante.

Yeah, I think this makes the most sense. IMO, supervillans require Batman to defeat mostly because the plot says so, but for sure the Batman adaptations that work the best for me are the ones that play up the "this dude is actually kind of unhinged" angle.

 

[him over there]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

I think the Batman thing makes sense when you consider that Bruce is insane. It isn't better morally but it isn't as stupid. He does it because he's neurotic and obsessed with violence and is totally incapable of letting things go. Plus the extremely unconventional problem of super villains sometimes requires an unconventional solution like a vigilante.

Yeah, I think this makes the most sense. IMO, supervillans require Batman to defeat mostly because the plot says so, but for sure the Batman adaptations that work the best for me are the ones that play up the "this dude is actually kind of unhinged" angle.

Have you finished Arkham City by any chance? To put it simply

Spoiler

Circumstances allow Batman to carry out his revenge while technically allowing him to follow his moral code of never taking life. He's got this smugness and hidden ecstacy to him when he does it, obviously pleased from a flawed moral high ground.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

Well just over two weeks to go until The Dark Knight Rises. I can't wait.

 

[Luna]

I'm not really bothered by the fixation with mental health problems. He certainly has some, but it seems to have worked out in the best possible way due to what he does working towards good, even if it is only to help himself rather than others. But really that is why anybody does anything. We don't donate money to charities to help people. We donate money to charities so we can feel good about helping people. Batman is no different. In Batman Begins, Rachael touched on the difference between justice and revenge, but this was never extrapolated on. To Batman the terms are interchangeable.

Spoiler

If Joker doomed himself then whether Batman enjoyed it or not wouldn't have made a difference from that point

 

[DreamaSkylar]

Batman's superpower is money. Lots and lots of money...

 

[Lalo Lomeli]

In a real tone, I'ts a rich guy, in a world with a lot of poverty, beating up poor people that are just symptoms of unbalanced equality of opportunities that comes from ultra rich people mindless spending in things like yatchs or Batmobiles instead of projects to impulse the social development and life quality.

He should go more against Exxon and a little less against the Riddler is all i am saying.

 

[Lunatic High]

I am the Bat

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Batman is awesome because he is a combination of Dracula, Zorro and Sherlock Holmes. There is no way that can be bad.

I always find his stories more interesting when they are a mystery like The Long Halloween or the recent court of owls storyline.

I like the female characters in the Batman mythos as well, they do have an unfortunate tendency to be fridged unless they are a villain though.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't get the appeal of Batman. He's always the least interesting part of whatever he's in.

Also there's the sheer stupidity of the whole "man has massive resources and wants to fight crime. Does he improve education? Lobby for better policing? Improve infrastructure? Create jobs? Lol, no, he spends it on a bondage suit to wear while personally punching every criminal in the face." thing.

Batman is a foil for the rest of the characters. If you take away the costume he wears he's basically the ultimate "straight man" anchoring all the other characters so that their insanity is better displayed.

And Batman DOES improve infrastructure, create jobs, and do things with his money other than make gadgets. He's a philanthropist, runs a massive corporation that creates jobs in gotham, donates money to the police, donates money to rebuild deteriorating sections of Gotham, etc. Not to mention he financed the Justice League's moon base.

 

[scorptatious]

It's weird, when I was little, I never really thought too much of the mental issues the majority of the characters of Batman have. But now that I'm older it's interesting to see these characters and their issues.

For example, there's the relationship between Batman and Robin. It's sort of interesting really. Bruce can relate to Dick because he too lost his parents. At the same time though, I personally feel that Batman's reasons for taking him in and molding him into a crime fighter are somewhat selfish. It sort of feels more like self-redemption than actually caring for Dick.

Still though, Bruce does do what he can to protect Dick. Like when he found out the whereabouts of the person who killed Dick's parents and attempted to hide it from him. So I guess that's something.

Please keep in mind, this is all stuff I picked up from TAS. I've never actually read the comics.

Arkham City also did a good job portraying it's characters. Especially in the interview tapes.

 

[tthor]

Why? Because I've just finished watching moviebob's latest batman video, and I feel like it.

The thing I've always found interesting about batman is the focus on insanity. Comic book villains have never been excactly poster childs for mental health, but the large majority of batman villains have some sort of mental problems, to the point where it seems nobody in batman media is sent to jail; They're instead sent to a secure asylum. Well, supposedly secure, anyway...

This theme doesn't stop at it's villains though. As the joker has said many times, batman isn't exactly sane either. He's violent, obsessed, and unable to let go of his childhood trauma. He has a moral compass, and a promise never to kill, but aside from that, he's just as mad as any other costumed nut in arkham city. Even his "code" is sometimes displayed as a neurosis, a mental pattern to which he sticks to obsessively, displayed particularly in the finale to arkham city;

Spoiler

When joker accidently smashes the antidote, batman instantly seems to give up on saving him, even seeming a little smug, like to him, the joker stopped deserving any mercy the moment he doomed himself, just because batman didn't actively kill him. In that moment, he becomes absolutely cold and merciless. You couldn't really blame him, because he's been put through an awful lot by the joker, but this sudden change in character really shows.

I fully expect to be ran out of this thread by an angry mob of comic book fans who know far more than me.

So, yeah. Batman. Discuss. Just generally.

I gotta disagree with your view on the end of Arkham City
when the antidote was destroyed, I did not see any smugness to Batman. All I saw was a look of pity on his face. If it was smugness and not pity, why would batman carry the joker's body out out of the theater the way he did? as a trophy? Idk, maybe i missed something you noticed