Batman vs Superman "unlikely to pass a billion" according to analyst & Synder to still direct JL

[hermes]

Looks to me like WB/DC thought that a movie with Batman and Superman would be good and successful no matter what they did. So they didn't make an effort writing a good movie. That's why the reviews are so poor and why this movie is doing less than great.

The thing is that Man of Steel didn't have great reviews, either. You would think they would have seen the mistake and fixed it there. Instead they seemed to double down on everything that was wrong with MoS.

I think they made an effort, but they and the public have widely different ideas of what makes a "good movie". Studio executives are concerned with profits and stingers for new movies, marketing is concerned with sellable scenes and being capable of producing merchandise, editors are concerned with cramming as much as they can of the things people want, etc. This is normal in many blockbusters, but it is the role of the producers to keep things balanced and decide when to say no... which apparently in this movie they didn't say a lot.

It is the problem with this movie... it is not that it is bad. The problem is that it is a Frankenstein of a movie because there were too many clowns running the circus. As they couldn't say no to including everything, and the director does not have a clear enough vision, the characters keep piling up and their behavior keeps getting erratic.

 

[Something Amyss]

Before anyone calls it a failure, keep in mind it's still been wildly successful. $700 mil in 12 days is nothing to sneeze at. They've made more than double the cost of the movie so they are well into the profit margin now.

They've made more than double the cost of the production of the movie in gross ticket sales. Excluding promotion, that's still pennies on the dollar. They may have made their money back, but even that's not a given.

Always just assumed I didn't like it because I was old, mostly because my little cousin and his friends love the show.

It's also worth noting that Dini is not the sole guy responsible for Ultimate Spider-Man. Brian Michael Bendis and the Man of Action team are also writers on the series. Combined with Dini's pedigree, I'm not sure he should shoulder the blame here.

Also, my vote's for Greg Weisman. Between Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice, I'm sold on him for superheroes.

Then again, I'm also a huge Gargoyles fangirl, so....

Got to admit, having looked at Goyer's IMDB page I'm surprised just how few of the things I recognise (or at least, know have been received positively). Didn't even know he worked on one of the Ghost Rider films.

Goyer's page just makes me resent all the crap I sat through with friends.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

snip.

snip.

Always just assumed I didn't like it because I was old, mostly because my little cousin and his friends love the show.

It's also worth noting that Dini is not the sole guy responsible for Ultimate Spider-Man. Brian Michael Bendis and the Man of Action team are also writers on the series. Combined with Dini's pedigree, I'm not sure he should shoulder the blame here.

Also, my vote's for Greg Weisman. Between Spectacular Spider-Man and Young Justice, I'm sold on him for superheroes.

Then again, I'm also a huge Gargoyles fangirl, so....

snip.

Isn't Man of Action responsible for the Ben 10 Cartoon?

(Which my personal favorite was the Alien Force/Ulitmate Alien generation)

Also Gargoyles is also a show I really wish I'd watch more as a kid when it was out, but Cartoon Network and Nickalodeon was all I had in my cable back then.

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:


and He-Man from 2000s:

 

[Something Amyss]

It is the problem with this movie... it is not that it is bad. The problem is that it is a Frankenstein of a movie because there were too many clowns running the circus. As they couldn't say no to including everything, and the director does not have a clear enough vision, the characters keep piling up and their behavior keeps getting erratic.

I think a good chunk of the problem comes down to them not knowing what they wanted. I think they wanted the kind of money that Disney/Marvel was getting, but no actual vision in terms of how to go about it. This is not to say that Marvel are geniuses, because I think some volume of luck has gone into things going as they have. But whether they had some master plan or not, Marvel has managed to create a somewhat coherent product across a series of movies. Sometimes, this is to their detriment (Iron Man 2 and from what I'm told, Ant-Man), but it largely has a brand people enjoyed first and foremost and was relatively coherent.

I think this was DC's idea of worldbuilding. They dropped three movies into one in order to establish all this stuff at the expense of any sort of cohesion or storytelling. Because a cinematic universe was their goal. I'm not even sure they understand what makes the MCU popular.

 

[MCerberus]

I love how they were "sure" they had a hit. I wonder what the execs saw that drove them to that conclusion, given that Man of Steel was poorly received by fans and critics alike (I generally liked it but there were tone and plot issues galore.) So they double down on the things people hated, combined two of the worst stories in each character's cannon (BvS and Death of Supes,) turned the grimdark up to 11 and watched a trainwreck of a plot unfold before their eyes, and they were sure they had a hit. Fucking Hollywood.

Every time I see a bad Death story with Superman, for some reason it always makes me want a 2-hour version of "Hereafter", with Supes and Savage running around a prog-rock apocalypse fighting giant beetles.

 

[Gorrath]

I love how they were "sure" they had a hit. I wonder what the execs saw that drove them to that conclusion, given that Man of Steel was poorly received by fans and critics alike (I generally liked it but there were tone and plot issues galore.) So they double down on the things people hated, combined two of the worst stories in each character's cannon (BvS and Death of Supes,) turned the grimdark up to 11 and watched a trainwreck of a plot unfold before their eyes, and they were sure they had a hit. Fucking Hollywood.

Every time I see a bad Death story with Superman, for some reason it always makes me want a 2-hour version of "Hereafter", with Supes and Savage running around a prog-rock apocalypse fighting giant beetles.

Hah! I freakin' loved that 2 parter. I especially loved when Supes grabs the hotrod, which made me instantly go, "That thing has TERRIBLE gas mileage, what are you doing!?" and then Supes later commenting on how it was a stupid idea. It really played into how his super powers have made him naive when it comes to the human experience. Damn I loved Justice League and JLU. If only they could match the tone and writing of the DCAU instead of this mess they've created. DCAU had dark stories and sad moments and broken minds and bodies but still managed to make you feel like there was hope. These movies give me no sense of hope. We just trudge from one frim thing to the next. Blah!

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

The studio only get's a portion of the box-office takes. The percentage varies per country, in the US it's around 30 cents on the dollar, in other countries it's sometimes quite a bit higher or even lower.

The movie's production budget is reported to be 250 mill and it's marketing budget is rumored to be 100-150 mill. Lowest estimate for it to break even is 800 mill, realisticly it would need even more than that. As it stands, the movie's not even made profit for WB yet, it's still in the red.

Actually most industry experts say that the break even point on Dawn of Justice is around $800 million ($250 mill budget, double for promotion/advertizing, and the movie studios only receive 50-60% of the box office money), but they will no doubt get there since they just hit $700 million, but studios don't make movies to break even. That is why it was said that the movie needed to hit at least a million to be considered a success.

They've made more than double the cost of the production of the movie in gross ticket sales. Excluding promotion, that's still pennies on the dollar. They may have made their money back, but even that's not a given.

Ah. Right, then. I assumed all that was included in the budget. So they're really looking at slim pickings, then? In comparison at least.

 

[mduncan50]

Ah. Right, then. I assumed all that was included in the budget. So they're really looking at slim pickings, then? In comparison at least.

Probably the closest equivalent on the Marvel side would be Age of Ultron, which had the same $250 million budget, and brought in $1.4 billion. Funny thing is many people considered that to be a disappointment because it did not match the $1.5 billion of the first Avengers. WB's accountants would be salivating over having THAT disappointment.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:

I'm going to chime in and say the newer Jonny Quest was so much worse than the original Jonny Quest despite old JQ being incredibly racist.

OT: Wait, the DC movie that's inspired by Lego Batman's song is doing poorly? Shock and alarm.

 

[Saltyk]

Looks to me like WB/DC thought that a movie with Batman and Superman would be good and successful no matter what they did. So they didn't make an effort writing a good movie. That's why the reviews are so poor and why this movie is doing less than great.

The thing is that Man of Steel didn't have great reviews, either. You would think they would have seen the mistake and fixed it there. Instead they seemed to double down on everything that was wrong with MoS.

I think they made an effort, but they and the public have widely different ideas of what makes a "good movie". Studio executives are concerned with profits and stingers for new movies, marketing is concerned with sellable scenes and being capable of producing merchandise, editors are concerned with cramming as much as they can of the things people want, etc. This is normal in many blockbusters, but it is the role of the producers to keep things balanced and decide when to say no... which apparently in this movie they didn't say a lot.

It is the problem with this movie... it is not that it is bad. The problem is that it is a Frankenstein of a movie because there were too many clowns running the circus. As they couldn't say no to including everything, and the director does not have a clear enough vision, the characters keep piling up and their behavior keeps getting erratic.

It could have been a good movie. I mean the idea is a nerd's wet dream. Superman. And Batman. In a movie together. And they're fighting!?

I think the first problem is that Man of Steel, at best, is a divisive movie. Some people like it. Others hate it. That is not a good base to build off. Even if everything else came together for the best, it would still be fighting an uphill battle.

Between the fifty unnecessary threads, a largely pointless Lois Lane, Eisenberg, confusing character motivations, shoehorned Justice League clips, and a jar of Luthor's piss, the movie just didn't have much going for it.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:

I'm going to chime in and say the newer Jonny Quest was so much worse than the original Jonny Quest despite old JQ being incredibly racist.

And its racist how?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:

I'm going to chime in and say the newer Jonny Quest was so much worse than the original Jonny Quest despite old JQ being incredibly racist.

And its racist how?

For starters, the only members of the group that didn't have a last name were Bandit the dog and Hadji the adopted Indian street urchin. The opening involves African tribesmen chucking spears. The only white villains are Russians (except the one time it was a WWI German, which was pretty cool). I like original JQ, but it is all sorts of racist.

 

[mduncan50]

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:

I'm going to chime in and say the newer Jonny Quest was so much worse than the original Jonny Quest despite old JQ being incredibly racist.

And its racist how?

Actual line of dialogue from the show: "Get a good look at Akezio, you heathen monkeys..."
This is said by a white man pretending to be the god of black South American tribe.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Also what do you think of other animated action shows of the 90s and early 2000s like The Real Adventures of Johnny Quest:

I'm going to chime in and say the newer Jonny Quest was so much worse than the original Jonny Quest despite old JQ being incredibly racist.

And its racist how?

Actual line of dialogue from the show: "Get a good look at Akezio, you heathen monkeys..."
This is said by a white man pretending to be the god of black South American tribe.

Specifically, the full quote is "All right, you ignorant savages, get a look at Aquezio, you heathen monkeys!"

Though I don't think the tribe qualifies as "black".

 

[syaoran728]

Between the fifty unnecessary threads, a largely pointless Lois Lane, Eisenberg, confusing character motivations, shoehorned Justice League clips, and a jar of Luthor's piss, the movie just didn't have much going for it.

Can someone please explain the jar of piss to me. I've been spoiled to the movie, but I have no idea why this is a thing.

 

[Saltyk]

Between the fifty unnecessary threads, a largely pointless Lois Lane, Eisenberg, confusing character motivations, shoehorned Justice League clips, and a jar of Luthor's piss, the movie just didn't have much going for it.

Can someone please explain the jar of piss to me. I've been spoiled to the movie, but I have no idea why this is a thing.

In the movie, Luthor is trying to get a large piece of kryptonite brought into the US. However, because it is radioactive, he needs a permit. He asks Senator Finch to let him have one. She denies it, and states that while he claims he wants to make a weapon to give them insurance against a rogue Superman, she thinks he wants a weapon for assassination. She then comments that you can call a jar of piss "granny's peach tea" (or something like that), but that won't fool her and neither will Luthor's claims about his intentions.

Fast forward to the Senate hearing with Superman. Senator Finch is speaking when she suddenly becomes distracted. There's a jar at her seat. She slowly turns it around to see a that it has "granny's peach tea" written on it. Then a bomb goes off.

There you go. That's the jar of piss explained. Don't you feel so enlightened?

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

What I find so confusing is that WB/DC has an entire infrastructure that churns out great animated movies that are typically pretty faithful to the source material. Why don't they let some of those guys do some writing if they're too afraid to let the comic dorks play with the big boys? It just seems like it would be so insulting working for DC and watching the dudes at Marvel write and have legitimate input to make sure the movies are great while you are being shunned in favor of the grim dark "realistic" versions the suits want.

 

[DefunctTheory]

What I find so confusing is that WB/DC has an entire infrastructure that churns out great animated movies that are typically pretty faithful to the source material. Why don't they let some of those guys do some writing if they're too afraid to let the comic dorks play with the big boys? It just seems like it would be so insulting working for DC and watching the dudes at Marvel write and have legitimate input to make sure the movies are great while you are being shunned in favor of the grim dark "realistic" versions the suits want.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the guys doing the great animated movies (Not all of the newer ones are great) wouldn't want to do the live movies. They'd probably spend 90% of their lives fighting executives, directors, producers, testers... just a huge hassle. Why would they want to do that, when they can stay where they're at now and make personal project gems like Gods and Monsters without anyone getting in their way? They get to do fun stuff right now.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Between the fifty unnecessary threads, a largely pointless Lois Lane, Eisenberg, confusing character motivations, shoehorned Justice League clips, and a jar of Luthor's piss, the movie just didn't have much going for it.

Can someone please explain the jar of piss to me. I've been spoiled to the movie, but I have no idea why this is a thing.

In the movie, Luthor is trying to get a large piece of kryptonite brought into the US. However, because it is radioactive, he needs a permit. He asks Senator Finch to let him have one. She denies it, and states that while he claims he wants to make a weapon to give them insurance against a rogue Superman, she thinks he wants a weapon for assassination. She then comments that you can call a jar of piss "granny's peach tea" (or something like that), but that won't fool her and neither will Luthor's claims about his intentions.

Fast forward to the Senate hearing with Superman. Senator Finch is speaking when she suddenly becomes distracted. There's a jar at her seat. She slowly turns it around to see a that it has "granny's peach tea" written on it. Then a bomb goes off.

There you go. That's the jar of piss explained. Don't you feel so enlightened?

There's no way that is in the actual movie, done by Lex Luthor.
This is one of those internet "goofers" I've heard so much about, right? Just a pranky prank by an internet prankster?

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Between the fifty unnecessary threads, a largely pointless Lois Lane, Eisenberg, confusing character motivations, shoehorned Justice League clips, and a jar of Luthor's piss, the movie just didn't have much going for it.

Can someone please explain the jar of piss to me. I've been spoiled to the movie, but I have no idea why this is a thing.

In the movie, Luthor is trying to get a large piece of kryptonite brought into the US. However, because it is radioactive, he needs a permit. He asks Senator Finch to let him have one. She denies it, and states that while he claims he wants to make a weapon to give them insurance against a rogue Superman, she thinks he wants a weapon for assassination. She then comments that you can call a jar of piss "granny's peach tea" (or something like that), but that won't fool her and neither will Luthor's claims about his intentions.

Fast forward to the Senate hearing with Superman. Senator Finch is speaking when she suddenly becomes distracted. There's a jar at her seat. She slowly turns it around to see a that it has "granny's peach tea" written on it. Then a bomb goes off.

There you go. That's the jar of piss explained. Don't you feel so enlightened?

There's no way that is in the actual movie, done by Lex Luthor.
This is one of those internet "goofers" I've heard so much about, right? Just a pranky prank by an internet prankster

As Alexander Luthor points out about 50 times in the movie, he's not Lex Luthor, his awesome foster dad who was interesting and classy and charismatic and awesome. He's Alexander Luthor, a creepy guy who feeds Jolly Ranchers to government officials, can't speak in public, and couldn't string a coherent motivation together if his life depended on it.