So I have been playing Battlefield 3's new expansion pack, and i noticed something that upsets me. There is a capturable objective where one sides helicopter respawns, but the other teams helicopter respawns not only away from all of the objectives is also the base spawn and cannot be lost. this allows one side to constantly have the advantage of never loosing their helicoptor and possibly capturing and being constantly supplied with two. one may say that you can just go take the objective back, but there is one way up if you don't have a helicopter. so what ends up happening is that one side has a multistory respawn with only one way to the top that constantly spawns helicopters and has a birds-eye-view of the whole battlefield. Am I the only person who sees a problem with this? other than that the new maps seem close to perfect, it just bothers me that Dice would add some thing that flawed in there
Battlefield 3: back to Karkland expansion pack: Shariqui Peninsula
- Thread starter south-base-spartan
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You never played BF2 did you? All the maps (apart from Wake Island on console) are virtually identical.
What you're forgetting is the defending team starts with ALL THE FLAGS. The Attacking team is already at a major disadvantage by their tickets reducing at a rapid rate from the very start of the game. Attacking and capturing the TV Station at the start of Sharqi is priority #1 for south side squads. The idea of the other team losing the chooper adds incentive to take the control point, and makes for several struggles for control throughout the battle.
Denying access to a significant vehicle for the enemy is the best way for the Russians (or MEC in BF2) gain the upper hand on the US team.
What you're forgetting is the defending team starts with ALL THE FLAGS. The Attacking team is already at a major disadvantage by their tickets reducing at a rapid rate from the very start of the game. Attacking and capturing the TV Station at the start of Sharqi is priority #1 for south side squads. The idea of the other team losing the chooper adds incentive to take the control point, and makes for several struggles for control throughout the battle.
Denying access to a significant vehicle for the enemy is the best way for the Russians (or MEC in BF2) gain the upper hand on the US team.
as have i but a double chopper game really sucks, it would be one thing if you at least got to play each map twice as both sides but as it is you just play conquest assult and conquest. so you don't even get the chance to do the same thing to the other team or have the same ting done to you. or even if the building wasn't do defensible, like if there was more than one way up, it wouldn't be so bad.
so i just decided to play the map again with an open mind, but the same thing continuously happens. the russian side immediately takes the objective and camps it and there is no way to get the helicopter back, because is this is what happens: A. viper respawns B. viper is immediately destroyed by havoc and it just circles the roof (obviously this isn't always the case, but follow along with me), clears it, waits for the viper then takes it. my problem is that the us side has no lasting advantage at all, because the game devolves to camping the tv station witch is ridiculously difficult to take back because not only is it a vantage point, but you have t move uphill twords the sun to take it.Skopintsev said:
the russian side gets such a huge advantage and the only disadvantage, like you said, is that they don't start out with the objectives , but the problem about that is that no side can adequately defend all objectives. It ends all too often in a double chopper camp. and i know it is based on a map from bf2 but so much has changed since bf2, and so little has changed in the map that it screws with the whole mechanics of the battle. the best comparison i can make is trying to play battle field 3 on a pc that was designed for something more like battle field 2. as new things are added to the game new things need to be added to the map or it throws everything out of balance, and that tipping point in this game was the lock on missiles.
if the pilot has stealth and flares and the gunner just has flares than the helicopter can literally stay alive for the entire game, because with stealth it takes so long to lock on twice that if the pilot smokes out of a lock, and the n a second lock is mad and the gunner smokes out of that one then by the time the third lock is made the pilot will have smokes again, and by the time the pilot has smoked out of the 3rd lock then the gunner will have smokes again. and this can go on indefinitely. since both helicopters can do this than both helicopters can stay in the air forever. so the only way to take a helicopter down is a tank, but if both helicopters go after a tank there is no way the tank will win.
sorry about the wall of text
Here's where I find it perfectly balanced. If the TV station is so hard to retake, DON'T LOSE IT. Make it the primary defensive station. Personally, I don't see the problem. My squad has single handedly retaken the TV station as the US without much opposition. Maybe it had something to do with the tanks and RPGs, and the medics...south-base-spartan said:
Its similar to base B in places like Metro and Grand Bazaar on Conquest. If you take B, it is DAMN hard to retake, especially if a good defence is mounted. Grand Bazaar has the fact that B is basically a corridor which is perfect for MG users to sit in the cover to the sides and spray down. As one guy leading our team one match put it 'Hold B and we win'. Right from the start of the match. That was the only aim. Get B. Ignore everything else. We only had B as a base, everything else was the enemies. We won, 140 tickets left. Metro has the damn stairs that no matter which way you are pushing, there will be RPGs and M320s flying everywhere blowing all shit up.
Honestly, if you find the TV station that hard to retake - don't. Bleed their tickets out by holding the other bases. Boring? Sure. It forces them to attack you, and you have all the other bases with tanks and jeeps and such, or slowly lose the match and get bored themselves. The major flaw in tactics is that people will try to retake the hardest objective. In a real war, if there is a heavily fortified fortress with machine gun emplacements, pillboxes, artillery, an air base, ect. and a lightly fortified yet still easy to defend base, guess which one you'll be attacking. The easy one. People in games tend not to see that, and see things like this and go 'Hold X to win'. Only works if the enemy constantly attacks X. If the enemy doesn't, and stays with their own base, you hold X to lose. 1 base is not a gamewinner. It is the tactics of a badly co-ordinated team against that one base that makes it so. Let them come to you and get killed by your defences, not the other way round.
there problems with that, one is your team, there is no way to control the actions of 11 strangers or even 8 if you have a full squad. you cant stop some guy from running in front of a helicopter and getting killed or other such nonsense. the other is that you hav no control of when you spawn in the game, like how you could start off at the beginning of the round or spawn in the middle of the game with the objective already lost when you spawn. and there isn't really anything you cna do about it.and when you add in the element of random people on your team with no mic, like most people on console, all strategy is lost. and i believe that you are wrong, in some cases holding one base is a game winner. all you have to do is have claymores on the stairs and some snipers on the roof and as long as you hold that one objective you can just pick off people as they move around.
also, if the only way to win in a situation where people adopt the strategy that most do in that map is to not have fun I.E. be boring, then the game has completely missed the point of being a game: to be fun. and its not fun to try and break a double helicopter spawncamp and assault up a steep hill twords the sun to get to try and take a multiple story building with one only way up.
Again, if they had just done what they did in bfbc, let you play as both sides on the same map, it wouldn't be as much of a problem for the us team, but they didn't, so it is. I'm not saying it is a bad game by any means. I really love every other expansion map, but this one has a lot of problems
also, if the only way to win in a situation where people adopt the strategy that most do in that map is to not have fun I.E. be boring, then the game has completely missed the point of being a game: to be fun. and its not fun to try and break a double helicopter spawncamp and assault up a steep hill twords the sun to get to try and take a multiple story building with one only way up.
Again, if they had just done what they did in bfbc, let you play as both sides on the same map, it wouldn't be as much of a problem for the us team, but they didn't, so it is. I'm not saying it is a bad game by any means. I really love every other expansion map, but this one has a lot of problems
While I agree, I'm not a fan of the new game type in this game, nor do I like the 3-flag version even in 12v12. Nevertheless it is what keeps me playing the game. Basically, if it wasn't free to me I wouldn't have downloaded it, thus I wouldn't still be playing battlefield. Patch 2.0 also saved its arse gameplay-wise. Fixed many, many crucial things. Now I have some decent enough maps; balanced gameplay; working mechanics and networking; and some averagely decent game types with a few minor hiccups. Basically everything I felt was lacking upon the games release. Also pretty much everything I find lacking in Call of Duty. Also pretty much everything I look for in a competitive FPS.usmarine4160 said:
All the game needs now is:
Some minor code tweaking for vehicle-collisions[footnote]nothing worse than having a jet fly into you and it's a double coin toss over whether you blow up, he blows up, you both blow up or nobodies harmed in the mid-air full throttle collision[/footnote]; more maps like the DLCs; less Americans using European servers[footnote]they have worse connections for having to deal with the Atlantic, make the gameplay worse for everyone on a dedicated[/footnote]; the ability to quit to menu in the End of Round screens[footnote]I hate having to wait a who minute in a server I'm despising at the time. If I dashboard, Dice, I'm likely to not put the game back in again[/footnote]; info on the exact game mode in circulation and how many flags are in it[footnote] no details like this exist when browsing the server list, which is a shame[/footnote]; and core conquest compatibility to the awesome new maps.[footnote]For undisclosed reasons I can only play 3-flag and 5-flag Conquest Assault. Why u no include normal conquest too?[/footnote]
- Do this and it's perfect, Dice.
Then it becomes a team co-ordination problem instead of a map balance problem. If your team can' co-ordinate itself to win the match, it is not the map's fault. BF is a team oriented game. If the team isn't following a good strategy, its not going to win.south-base-spartan said:
I'd also beg to differ. At the start of the round, you do know when you'll spawn. Same time as everyone else. If you get a good Heli pilot on your team, and some good defenders, and spawn them at that base. The base should be held if it is truly that hard to capture.
As for them picking you off as you move around, vehicles are often a good counter to this, and spawning at the closest base and rushing to any base they have. Alternatively, SMAW that roof. At the very least the splash damage should hurt them.
What the strategy equates to is calling the enemy's bluff. Instead of you charging them, you are calling that they will not just stay holed up in that one base. You move to the defensive instead of the offensive. I can almost guarantee you that if you're not charging at them, there will be people on their team that charge at you. You then kill them and call it a day. Constant offensive works well in Rush, not so well in conquest where there is a heavily defended base.
That is a server issue, not the game issue. The servers I play on rotate the map every two matches. Every one match, the teams swap so that the previous attackers are now defending, the previous defenders now attacking. Find a server dedicated to 24/7 that map, and it will rotate the sides. Your only problem then will be if Auto-balance swaps you over.
Personally, straight from the start of the match, take charge. Even if you aren't, act like a Veteran. Tell the people on the team that they have to hold that base, and if they can't then they have to focus on the other bases instead. Tell them the strategy, and if there are any questions, explain why it will work. Sometimes you'll get a team of turds, and that sucks. There is nothing that can make you win in a situation like that, and you would probably end up losing no matter which map. Sometimes, you'll get a good team who will listen to you. When that happens, it can turn the tide of a battle. Usually, you'll get a mix of them. Get the people who listen in your squad, and take to defending. If the rest of your team just charges in and gets killed, use them as meatshields to get to the base, then march on up, shooting any claymores on your way. Be sure to have at least 2 medics with you, and fight your way up. Don't just charge up. Hell, have a recon in the squad put a spawn beacon on the lowest level so that you can quickly spawn back there. Take things carefully, and you should make progress, albeit with more losses than would be preferable. Once you retake the base, don't lose it again. It is preferable to either hold or ignore the base, but if you must attack it, do it right. Half the time, any Claymores are easily dealt with by looking, spotting then shooting them. People on the top level of the building are easily kept at bay with grenade spam. Just get a few people and a support spam grenades out, then a couple of suicide assaults who just run out and deal as much damage as they can before they die. You'd be amazed how well that can work. (Speaking from experience. 64 Metro conquest, pushing down the far left stairway, 24 people camping that alone. I got sick of all the SMAW spam and suicide ran with my F2000. Killed 3 people, then got Kill assist 80s on another 5, and about 12 suppression kill assists. We then took the staircase and pushed down. I died, no chance of getting revived, but I dealt enough damage to them in doing so it didn't matter).
and while they're fixing thing do something about the frag shotgun rounds. I swear now ppl arent even trying to aim anymore, they just run around spamming granade rounds with auto shotguns and all you can do is hope you arent standing near a wall.Bvenged said: