Battlefield and Sniping (Also other shooters)

[unbreakable212]

Now me and a friend were talking the other day about sniping in modern shooters and it made me wonder - Just how effective is sniping in modern multiplayer shooting games?

The battlefield series is my 1st example, I've logged a fair few hours into the online and I'll admit that I rarely would find myself dying due to a sniper, granted the way I play I move quickly and I'm usually in the thick of the action, but some of my friends have said the same, that they don't usually get killed by snipers. Also.. most snipers I've kept an eye on over the course of a few games usually have negative K/D's or average. Which made me wonder just how effective is sniping now?

The COD series have a variation with "quick-scoping" which is essentially running & gunning with a sniper, Counter Strike had the AWP, (God, I love the noise that gun makes), which skilled players could also quick scope with it, although slightly different to the COD style of quick scoping (I think, I haven't played CS in ages and that's about as much as I can remember)

My last example would be the Halo series, with their style of sniping you could perch yourself away from the main battle and pick people off or you could also run & gun relying on quick reflexes to get no-scopes or to get a body shot + a beat down.

I suppose the difference with most of these games is that COD/CS/Halo usually have smaller maps, some are larger but most are small, whereas the maps in Battlefield are usually quite large. Anyway, this post is getting quite long and I'm curious to see what other people think.

Sniping in COD/CS/Halo all felt viable, if you had some skill with a sniper you could boss a game, granted Battlefield is aimed a lot more towards teamwork but it feels like sniping in Battlefield is nowhere as effective as other games, that's just my thought. So here's the question.

Do you think that sniping in modern online shooting games is becoming ineffective?
Maybe sniping needs to under-go a transformation to remain competitive with the assault rifles and sub machine guns.
What do you think?

 

[MysticSlayer]

Sniping in the Battlefield series has always come down to it being the hardest to learn but the most effective class in the hands of a skilled player. My brother's competitive team has a guy who runs almost nothing but sniper except in smaller matches where there simply aren't enough targets for him to be a viable force, but he is near unstoppable otherwise. Given Battlefield's larger maps, someone who keeps themselves at sniper's-only range is basically unstoppable and your only solution is to find cover so he can't kill you. Unfortunately, this has been diminished somewhat in the newer games, as guns are getting easier to use and the maps are becoming more congested. Still, it is a basis that seems to stick with Battlefield.

In general, though, sniping is a little overrated in terms of how good it is. Yeah, a skilled sniper is incredibly devastating, especially if the game allows one-hit kills over most of the body (ex. CoD), but that is really only because it punishes people more easily for not playing well and/or not knowing the maps. Snipers are pretty much useless against someone who understands the lines of sight and moves quick enough, unless that sniper has some very good reflexes, but even then the person who keeps out of the lines of sight a sniper can use and knows how to get around them to kill them from behind can basically use snipers as target practice at that point. I know some people say quick scoping makes snipers overpowered, but again, it seems to be exaggerated, as most overly-aggressive quick-scoping snipers tend to have issues in terms of situational awareness and can only kill those who run in front of them (bar lucky montage shots).

 

[BQE]

I miss the sniper class from Bad Company 2.

Using the mortar strikes on stationary enemy tanks was a blessing, as well as the sensor probes that one would throw.

I usually play whatever the assault game mode is called, and I oft see a multitude of snipers on the assaulting team. All hanging out in the rear lines trying to rack up kills. The times I would play as a recon on assault would be to set up the respawn dish closer to the enemy line.

I just don't understand the motives at times.

 

[Tom_green_day]

In Battlefield I basically only find myself being killed by snipers. Sitting on hills miles away that I can't see. I find it really annoying.
In Black Ops 2 and Modern Warfare 3 especially I found snipers quite irritating as they could 1-hit-kill but they don't seem to be used much any more.

 

[FrozenLaughs]

In Battlefield I basically only find myself being killed by snipers. Sitting on hills miles away that I can't see. I find it really annoying.
In Black Ops 2 and Modern Warfare 3 especially I found snipers quite irritating as they could 1-hit-kill but they don't seem to be used much any more.

This always makes me laugh. People playing military shooters who don't like Snipers doing their job. That's why Battlefield is the only "military" game I can stand.

I play sniper in BF, yes sometimes an "aggressive recon" but mostly I lay back and support my squad while they capture and hold a single objective all game.

When you stop being obsessed with meaningless K/D spreads and play towards your team winning the game, you are going to appreciate the help a good sniper provides.

I can place my motion sensor near the flag and fall back to a position I can clearly see the objective. I counter-snipe other snipers, and I spot enemies for my squad and call out the positions of ones that I can't get. With a good vantage point and a high power scope I can keep eyes on up to half of the enemy team at any given time, even if I can't land a shot on them. To a team playing objectively the information is priceless.

Yes, I have games I only go 5/5 or something. I also have ones I go 25/5. I don't care about that though. Knowing we won cause I helped lay down Intel on the enemy is what I enjoy.

 

[shootthebandit]

I personally dont like sniping in BF3 although i think having a sniper on your squad can be a positive. With 2 engineers (javelin) and a support accompanied by a sniper youve got a really good defensive/anti-vehicle squad. In conquest snipers overlooking the capture point can be very effective provided there is some good close quarters players backing them up.

 

[Bluestorm83]

I've found that Snipers in Battlefield 4 (in the Beta, at least) are best used as utility and not as a dedicated gun in the distance. Painting choppers so the Engineers can have their rockets home in is indespensible, if you ask me. You need to find a good spot to watch an open area, preferably where people will be running toward you and simultaneously not seeing that you are there. It's difficult, but it's all about the way you want to play.

Personally, I play almost exclusively as an Engineer, because I despise tanks and choppers. Always have, always will. The End.

 

[Ushiromiya Battler]

In Battlefield I basically only find myself being killed by snipers. Sitting on hills miles away that I can't see. I find it really annoying.
In Black Ops 2 and Modern Warfare 3 especially I found snipers quite irritating as they could 1-hit-kill but they don't seem to be used much any more.

This always makes me laugh. People playing military shooters who don't like Snipers doing their job. That's why Battlefield is the only "military" game I can stand.

I play sniper in BF, yes sometimes an "aggressive recon" but mostly I lay back and support my squad while they capture and hold a single objective all game.

When you stop being obsessed with meaningless K/D spreads and play towards your team winning the game, you are going to appreciate the help a good sniper provides.

I can place my motion sensor near the flag and fall back to a position I can clearly see the objective. I counter-snipe other snipers, and I spot enemies for my squad and call out the positions of ones that I can't get. With a good vantage point and a high power scope I can keep eyes on up to half of the enemy team at any given time, even if I can't land a shot on them. To a team playing objectively the information is priceless.

Yes, I have games I only go 5/5 or something. I also have ones I go 25/5. I don't care about that though. Knowing we won cause I helped lay down Intel on the enemy is what I enjoy.

This is absolutely correct. Snipers in other modern shooters aren't snipers at all. Snipers are for recon, taking out specific targets, covering areas and spotting. Simple as that.

Anyways, Battlefield Bad Company 2 Vietnam, never had so much fun sniping....with a ppsh!
Jokes aside, you had sizeable maps, good hiding spots, open spaces, great long range rifles and good cover spots.
I remember following a chopper with my sight, finding out how much to the side and how far up over the target I had to shoot and then ''bam'' headshot and a crashing helicopter full of panicking soldiers.

 

[Shockolate]

That's because Battlefield 3 snipers aren't hitscan. They're actual projectiles. You have to adjust for bullet drop and leading the target.

Halo and Call Of Duty do have hitscan. The bullet goes in a straight line wherever you're pointing with little to no delay. This along with the fact they're so much more powerful compared to other weapons, plus a decent firing rate, makes them ideal close combat weapons.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

It depends on how adaptable they like to be and the map. Something like Operation Metro with it's long sightlines and shadows is good for a sniper with almost any weapon. If they want to be more versatile, they can take more of a designated marksman kit with a good semi-auto like the SKS or the M39 EBR. These weapons aren't great for extreme long range shooting, but for mid to long range and some counter sniper work, they are great. In close combat, spamming the trigger can save your ass sometimes where a bolt action you'd almost be better off using as a club.

Furthermore, don't underestimate the recon class as part of a tank killing team with someone with a Javelin. The SOFLAM makes killing tanks piss easy.

Finally, it's called the recon class, not the sniper class. Informing your allies of enemy positions can be invaluable if they pay attention to it. You can rack up a decent score without every having to fire a round, much like you can as a dedicated medic.

 

[SecondPrize]

I always liked sniping in Battlefield, but I'm not counting 3. Good snipers could be a force to be reckoned with but class homoginization and the CoDification of weapon attachments and perks have increased the kill range of every class so the series is left with what you described.
I wouldn't describe quick-scoping as running and gunning. It's basically an aimbot sprung from a glitch. CoD sniping requires timing, not aim control and timing. That's lame.

 

[JackyG]

I haven't played Battlefield since Bad Company 2 but I was very good with the sniper class in that game. even getting shots in on the pilots of vehicles.

My best tactic was to find a spot close to the attackers base, closer than a sniper would usually go and find bushes overlooking their artillery. Using the VSS i'd wait until they'd fire to mask my gunshots and completely take away their artillery haha.

I was a dick like that. but to be honest as a sniper your job is screw with the enemy team and I did that in droves.

That tactic also worked with the Specialist class (although i'd have to do a better job at hiding) because i'd use the tracer darts on vehicles leaving the starting position so my team would always know where they were coming from. and then of course, screw with their artillery. and any camping snipers.


One time a kid was trying to find me for nearly an hour, it was a really long match. And when he did I got him with my pistol!

I led a sheltered adolescence...

 

[Hero in a half shell]

In today's large modern multiplayer games sniping is somewhat less useful and less versatile than the other gun choices, but back in the days of LAN multiplayer, with only a few people on the maps, sniping was awesome, especially because maps were built with key sniping locations and choke points that you could focus on defending, now the more open maps (especially in Battlefield) and haphazard COD spawns mean that you get flanked very quickly and never know where your enemy will come from.

But back in the days of small LAN multiplayer, snipers were kings.

 

[Vigormortis]

Can't really say on Counter Strike because I probably haven't clocked more than 50 hours into the series all together and I don't follow the competitive scene.

The sniper rifles in the Counter-Strike series are very powerful tools for a team. Provided they're in the right hands, of course. Most notably the Scout and the AWP.

They're there to fill a specific role. Namely: providing hit consistency on targets that are at the extreme ranges of the AK and M4. Not because the AK or M4 can't hit targets at those ranges, but because they aren't quite as reliable at those ranges.

Outside of this role, the sniper rifles are usually ignored.

Some teams will use them at medium to close range, but only if they're forced to. Most resort to using the AK/M4/shotty setups.

Though, admittedly, my knowledge of the competitive side of Counter-Strike comes from personal experience and therefore extends only from 1.6 to Source. While I occasionally play Global Offensive, I've not kept up with the competitive scene.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Do you think that sniping in modern online shooting games is becoming ineffective?
Maybe sniping needs to under-go a transformation to remain competitive with the assault rifles and sub machine guns.
What do you think?

Nope. It varies series to series, so I'll talk about Battlefield as it's the one I know.

The problem in BF is that the people playing Recon/Scout/Sniper are generally complete morons. There's no real way to sugar coat it, 99% percent of the snipers in all BF games play like they couldn't pass grade school.



In reality the sniper has been (potentially) the best anti infantry class in every single Battlefield, but is situational and requires practice. In BF3 you can carry two one hit hill weapons (rifle/Xbow) or one and a motion tracker, you can spawn literally anywhere and provided you pack a G18 you're at no disadvantage at close range (it's more accurate and more powerful than most of the PDWs).

The rifle itself is a situational weapon, like the RPG or C4 or the M320. You use it when your opponent is a good distance from you and doesn't know you're there, in that scenario you're unbeatable, you can hit the guy once and move on without any chance for retaliation. When you think of it like a gadget and not as your primary it becomes extremely useful, trying to use it in situation where an assault rifle would work is optimistic at best.

In those situations you use the Xbow then the G18, aim for the chest and fire the xbow, then switch to the pistol straight away in case you miss. If you hit, great, duck and reload, if you miss or there's more than one, G18 and controlled burst fire. You can hip fire the G18 like a boss too, it does 20dmg per shot so two kills per magazine is realistic.

As for where you should be as a recon, that's very simple.

All you have to do to be effective is keep moving and flank, flank, flank. Get behind your opponents, if they're close by kill them with Xbow or G18 sup and stay off the map. If they're far off get the rifle out, kill one at a time (whichever one is standing still, or moving predictably) and move back into cover between shots. Move after every shot, never stay put, if you stay put the kill cam gives you away, if you don't you can move and flank the players attacking your old location.

You don't even have to flank very far, if you use the rest of your squad as a distraction you can be twenty meters away and pick off players attempting to flank them. If you're clever about it you can set yourself up so that to reach you the other team has to face your squad, but to reach your squad they have to pass your sight line.

These are more or less the same tactics that worked in BF2 and BC2 (and all the rest actually).


<spoiler= How the great unwashed play sniper>
Sitting on a hill top with the bipod out and a 12x scope helps nobody. It didn't work in BF2, it still doesn't work in BF3. Suppression will ruin your accuracy, the other teams will quickly re-route and move out of your sight lines so you will only attack the careless. You won't prevent caps and you won't disrupt the important enemy squads, you're essentially AFK.

If you're unlucky the enemy will take offense to your camping and stab you, or a good sniper will pop out of nowhere and nail you to the wall. Alternatively an aircraft will be directed to explode you, or a tank, or mortar fire, but what do you expect when you sit around on your arse for entire rounds at a time?

Despite this most recons play just this way, then whine about snipers being underpowered.

They're not, the players using them are just tactically deficient, these tactics don't work in Counter Strike Either, or Halo, they're not even much use in Call of Duty. There is a learning curve to sniping in all games, these players just refuse to climb it.

TLR: In BF3, a k/d of 2 or 3 to 1 and top five on the board is normal for a decent sniper. It's not underpowered at all, but it is a class that has a high skill ceiling and requires practice to truly master.

BF4 does away with suppression altering your ADS spread. Now it increases your scope sway, so the rifle is even more powerful than it was before, but again you have to master it first.

 

[Windcaler]

The usefulness of snipers varies from game to game

In the case of battlefield 3 recons really arent all that useful IMO. You generally only need 1 on your team to put down a TUGS to catch enemy movement through weak areas. Then when your minimap lights up you turn around and mow them down. The problem is recons dont really have many other good tools for most maps. In battlefield bad company 2 recons were much more useful because they had better tools. Not only did you have motion balls to scout out areas but you could pack C4, blend into the foliage with your ghillie suit, and put the fear of god into the enemy because other classes had increased time to kills while the sniper even with a body shot could blow you away with a sidearm in a second

In arma snipers are increadibly effective if used properly. Not only can they spot enemy targets but they can easily pick them off in a surprise attack as your squad moves into a flanking position. Then you take them out while they're looking for the sniper

I havnt played a halo game since ODST but I remember snipers being pretty effective. I recall my friend sniping me out of aircraft flying at full speed which killed me and blew the thing up

I havnt played CoD since Modern warfare 2 and I remember snipers being very ineffective unless using quick scoping. There just werent many good spots you could actually snipe from, at least not while playing domination as I recall.

In blacklight:retirbution (the last I played it was quite awhile ago, it was right after the recoil pattern patch that killed my build) sniping with the anti-material rifle was effective if you had backup since it was a 1 hit kill. Regular Bolt action rifles were effective as well because when built properly they could 1 shot anyone but the heaviest armored people.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

I always find that in team-based objective games like Battlefield and Planetside 2, sniper classes are pretty much irrelevant in terms of the class dynamics due their limited utility outside of killing players from slightly further away than the other classes. That's not much of a defining role on the battlefield when EVERYONE has the capacity to kill and with greater overall effectiveness. A light machine gunner, for example, is much more effective at holding off large enemy forces due to having a high-capacity, automatic weapon, while the sniper has a low-capacity, semi/bolt-action weapon. Add to this the fact that they don't really bring much to the table in combined arms situations where you need more than just the capacity to shoot blokes, for example taking out and repairing vehicles, providing ammo and healing for squadmates etc.

Now the examples I give do have a roles for snipers outside of their primary role. The Recon class in Battlefield will often be able to unlock laser designators to spot for vehicles such as tanks and helicopters, and provide locks for lock-on weapons. The Infiltrator in Planetside 2 has the ability to hack terminals and base turrets and making themselves a general nuisance of them selves before the main force arrives. They also have access to motion trackers which show enemies in a certain area of the minimap to team-mates.

If I were to change anything about the class in general, I would put more of the focus on the above capabilities, i.e. stealth, sabotage and reconnaissance, and less of a focus on long-range killing, effectively making a class that CAN be a sniper, but would have to specialise to do it. They could have access to sniper rifles, but that wouldn't be their primary weapon class due to sniper rifles filling out a very specialist role as a weapon similar to a shotgun. Instead, I would give them a sub-machine gun or carbine as these are more versatile weapons that can also emphasize stealth. I would also give them access to more gadgets that emphasize their support capabilities with things like laser designators, binoculars to increase spot range, radar jammers, recon drones, motion detectors, anti personnel mines and various things that can be used to promote stealth like ghillie suits.

That being said, they're fine as they are in Deathmatch type games, where killing is all that matters. It's just sort of a matter of preference then.

TLDR: Snipers are mostly pointless in Battlefield and similar games, and should be replaced with something more akin to a scout or saboteur, emphasising stealth, subterfuge and intelligence rather than shooting blokes who are a bit far off.

 

[FrozenLaughs]

I suggested to their design team via a Facebook post they did on their official page, to move C4 to Recon and in the BF4 beta they did. I'm super happy at the added anti vehicle potential, as well as the opportunity to open up otherwise impossible to get to positions to snipe/spot from.

Every single other person I heard comment on it however, hated it.

And I love the Soflam Designator is now a pair of night vision, range finding binoculars. It's a mobile, universal tool now that will really help mobile and prone Recons feed intel and support.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

It depends on how adaptable they like to be and the map. Something like Operation Metro with it's long sightlines and shadows is good for a sniper with almost any weapon. If they want to be more versatile, they can take more of a designated marksman kit with a good semi-auto like the SKS or the M39 EBR. These weapons aren't great for extreme long range shooting, but for mid to long range and some counter sniper work, they are great. In close combat, spamming the trigger can save your ass sometimes where a bolt action you'd almost be better off using as a club.

Furthermore, don't underestimate the recon class as part of a tank killing team with someone with a Javelin. The SOFLAM makes killing tanks piss easy.

Finally, it's called the recon class, not the sniper class. Informing your allies of enemy positions can be invaluable if they pay attention to it. You can rack up a decent score without every having to fire a round, much like you can as a dedicated medic.

I uh, disagree with that tank killing bit. The relock+reload time on a javalin is long enough for IR smoke to replenish. A good tanker will never die from Javalins. The only times I died from javs the last few months is when I was out & repairing and I couldn't pop smoke.

As for the sniping bit: The Recon tools in BF3 are actually pretty cool, just as they'll be in BF4. Sadly too many recons still decide to go camping on some high vantage point and be completely clueless.

I think Dyslexci from ShackTac had some nice videos about snipers in FPSes: