Battlefront II update: Microtransactions return, but Lootboxes are not purchasable

[Canadamus Prime]

Remember when Day 1 DLC was big thing we all hated? Man have our standards fallen. Well I say "our," but I really mean everyone else's because to me these Publishers can still go fuck themselves.

You are not alone.
I said enough is enough way back when games started coming with either the steam DRM or another form of insidious DRM.
It's gone downhill from there, in general.

I don't really consider Steam DRM, but yeah DRM is another thing that can still fuck right off.

Then the DRM has won by making you think that. Steam is -by definition- DRM.

Well not really. Steam is a digital distribution client and I can't speak for Valve, but I'm sure the constant connection requirement is for the Steam community component. Also it does have an offline mode.

Steam Manages your Right to access the Digital content it provides. If Steam disappears or ceases to function, your access to the entire library of games hosted by Steam is gone. It is specifically designed so that it is physically impossible for you to play a Steam-purchased game without using Steam. THAT is DRM, as clear as day.

Now, if Steam was simply a download client that let you download onto your hard drive to play without any further interaction with Steam (like GOG's model), then it wouldn't be DRM. But since using Steam is a requirement any time you want to play the game, that is 100% DRM.

Alright I concede, you win. Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up. Ok sure CD-Keys were more benign.
On the other hand Steam provides a way to connect with other players, provides ease of access to MP servers (if you care about the sort of thing, I don't) keeps track of your games library, backs up your saved games in the event something happens to your computer and keeps track of your games library. If you want to consider it DRM that's fine, but it's DRM I can live with.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up. Ok sure CD-Keys were more benign.
On the other hand Steam provides a way to connect with other players, provides ease of access to MP servers (if you care about the sort of thing, I don't) keeps track of your games library, backs up your saved games in the event something happens to your computer and keeps track of your games library. If you want to consider it DRM that's fine, but it's DRM I can live with.

I'm not completely familiar with everything about the steam DRM so some games saves could be stored locally, and others not. That's another thing about the steam DRM, it's on top of whatever other forms of "games as a service" schemes the developers/publishers chose to include.
CD-Keys!! Thanks. I can't believe I forgot what they were called..Haha.
I'm not much for multiplayer either. But I'd like the option of creating my own server and playing against bots, for example, or LAN or just close friends whenever. My freedom to chose which.
Games library..mine is called a bookshelf or external HDD/SDD/USB. Completely independent of both internet and certain companies servers.
Backed up games saves is a nice positive feature though.

In the end, it comes down to what people are willing to trade away, and the majority seem to agree with you.
If you are fine with it, and finally agreeing that it is DRM, then you are fine with it. It is what it is.

Many also seem fine with micro-transactions, lootboxes, always-online/online-singplayer, etc.
Nothing one can do really, but declare whether oneself is okay with it or not, and of course not support practices one disapprove of.

Keep on gaming!

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Vermintide games for example is unplayable offline.

Holy shit. Seriously? I'm definitely not buying them now.

But I say to you get it anyway. Its a fun game regardless. Especially with Friends you know don't suck.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Remember when Day 1 DLC was big thing we all hated? Man have our standards fallen. Well I say "our," but I really mean everyone else's because to me these Publishers can still go fuck themselves.

You are not alone.
I said enough is enough way back when games started coming with either the steam DRM or another form of insidious DRM.
It's gone downhill from there, in general.

I don't really consider Steam DRM, but yeah DRM is another thing that can still fuck right off.

Then the DRM has won by making you think that. Steam is -by definition- DRM.

Well not really. Steam is a digital distribution client and I can't speak for Valve, but I'm sure the constant connection requirement is for the Steam community component. Also it does have an offline mode.

Steam Manages your Right to access the Digital content it provides. If Steam disappears or ceases to function, your access to the entire library of games hosted by Steam is gone. It is specifically designed so that it is physically impossible for you to play a Steam-purchased game without using Steam. THAT is DRM, as clear as day.

Now, if Steam was simply a download client that let you download onto your hard drive to play without any further interaction with Steam (like GOG's model), then it wouldn't be DRM. But since using Steam is a requirement any time you want to play the game, that is 100% DRM.

As far as I know, there are games on Steam that can run without the need for Steam being active. Not in all cases, but I thought it as possible.

 

[Avnger]

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up.

I've never found a game on steam that had no local save files. There are some games though (for example, Europa Universalis) where if you choose the Cloud Save option when saving, it only saves to the cloud.

The location of these saves can be annoying to track down though because it's dependent on where the devs felt like putting it (some will be in Documents, some will be in AppData, some will be in the game's folder, etc)

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

Remember when Day 1 DLC was big thing we all hated? Man have our standards fallen. Well I say "our," but I really mean everyone else's because to me these Publishers can still go fuck themselves.

My standards are the same as they've always been, maybe even higher.
That's why I haven't touched a current generation console and if I play games, I only play either old school self contained games (meaning, no DLC) or indie titles.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up. Ok sure CD-Keys were more benign.
On the other hand Steam provides a way to connect with other players, provides ease of access to MP servers (if you care about the sort of thing, I don't) keeps track of your games library, backs up your saved games in the event something happens to your computer and keeps track of your games library. If you want to consider it DRM that's fine, but it's DRM I can live with.

I'm not completely familiar with everything about the steam DRM so some games saves could be stored locally, and others not. That's another thing about the steam DRM, it's on top of whatever other forms of "games as a service" schemes the developers/publishers chose to include.
CD-Keys!! Thanks. I can't believe I forgot what they were called..Haha.
I'm not much for multiplayer either. But I'd like the option of creating my own server and playing against bots, for example, or LAN or just close friends whenever. My freedom to chose which.
Games library..mine is called a bookshelf or external HDD/SDD/USB. Completely independent of both internet and certain companies servers.
Backed up games saves is a nice positive feature though.

In the end, it comes down to what people are willing to trade away, and the majority seem to agree with you.
If you are fine with it, and finally agreeing that it is DRM, then you are fine with it. It is what it is.

Many also seem fine with micro-transactions, lootboxes, always-online/online-singplayer, etc.
Nothing one can do really, but declare whether oneself is okay with it or not, and of course not support practices one disapprove of.

Keep on gaming!

I will accept Steam because at least it gives me something in exchange for it's DRM aspect.

When it comes to microtransactons, lootboxes, and even DLC the way I see it I'm getting less value for my dollar on top of being milked for more money. Defenders of these things love to point out how games haven't gone up in price and what not; well yeah that's true, but you're also getting significantly less game for your dollar so they might as well have. Of course they can make a shit-tonne more money by selling you half a game and selling you the rest piecemeal via microtransactions etc. all the while saying "look how great we are, we haven't raised prices." When ever anyone calls them out on this they pull the "Games are so expensive to make" card. Even Extra Credits bought into that BS which was really disappointing because I thought they were savvier than that.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up. Ok sure CD-Keys were more benign.
On the other hand Steam provides a way to connect with other players, provides ease of access to MP servers (if you care about the sort of thing, I don't) keeps track of your games library, backs up your saved games in the event something happens to your computer and keeps track of your games library. If you want to consider it DRM that's fine, but it's DRM I can live with.

I'm not completely familiar with everything about the steam DRM so some games saves could be stored locally, and others not. That's another thing about the steam DRM, it's on top of whatever other forms of "games as a service" schemes the developers/publishers chose to include.
CD-Keys!! Thanks. I can't believe I forgot what they were called..Haha.
I'm not much for multiplayer either. But I'd like the option of creating my own server and playing against bots, for example, or LAN or just close friends whenever. My freedom to chose which.
Games library..mine is called a bookshelf or external HDD/SDD/USB. Completely independent of both internet and certain companies servers.
Backed up games saves is a nice positive feature though.

In the end, it comes down to what people are willing to trade away, and the majority seem to agree with you.
If you are fine with it, and finally agreeing that it is DRM, then you are fine with it. It is what it is.

Many also seem fine with micro-transactions, lootboxes, always-online/online-singplayer, etc.
Nothing one can do really, but declare whether oneself is okay with it or not, and of course not support practices one disapprove of.

Keep on gaming!

I will accept Steam because at least it gives me something in exchange for it's DRM aspect.

Well, you getting anything in return, that isn't something "value added" & intangible such as multiplayer/achievements/..sales?, for your money is actually a falsehood.
You get less than you did before the steam DRM. You no longer own your game. You "rent" it..the experience.. As a service.
You can get banned from steam for something unrelated to a certain game, and then you lose all access to all games.
Also, should they take down the servers (steam being bought out, suffer bad PR leading to bankruptcy, etc) you again lose all games you've "bought".

So what do you really get?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

(...) Still it's the most benign form of DRM out there.

Not really. Amongst today's various DRM's maybe. Only if you have internet. Stable internet. Unlimited data on stable internet.
And don't mind bloatware, mandatory updates, saves not being on your computer, MP servers reliant on external servers only..etc.

The most benign form of DRM are CD-checks and codes within the CD-cover/game manual.

I'm pretty sure my game saves are still stored locally. I think Steam just backs them up. Ok sure CD-Keys were more benign.
On the other hand Steam provides a way to connect with other players, provides ease of access to MP servers (if you care about the sort of thing, I don't) keeps track of your games library, backs up your saved games in the event something happens to your computer and keeps track of your games library. If you want to consider it DRM that's fine, but it's DRM I can live with.

I'm not completely familiar with everything about the steam DRM so some games saves could be stored locally, and others not. That's another thing about the steam DRM, it's on top of whatever other forms of "games as a service" schemes the developers/publishers chose to include.
CD-Keys!! Thanks. I can't believe I forgot what they were called..Haha.
I'm not much for multiplayer either. But I'd like the option of creating my own server and playing against bots, for example, or LAN or just close friends whenever. My freedom to chose which.
Games library..mine is called a bookshelf or external HDD/SDD/USB. Completely independent of both internet and certain companies servers.
Backed up games saves is a nice positive feature though.

In the end, it comes down to what people are willing to trade away, and the majority seem to agree with you.
If you are fine with it, and finally agreeing that it is DRM, then you are fine with it. It is what it is.

Many also seem fine with micro-transactions, lootboxes, always-online/online-singplayer, etc.
Nothing one can do really, but declare whether oneself is okay with it or not, and of course not support practices one disapprove of.

Keep on gaming!

I will accept Steam because at least it gives me something in exchange for it's DRM aspect.

Well, you getting anything in return, that isn't something "value added" & intangible such as multiplayer/achievements/..sales?, for your money is actually a falsehood.
You get less than you did before the steam DRM. You no longer own your game. You "rent" it..the experience.. As a service.
You can get banned from steam for something unrelated to a certain game, and then you lose all access to all games.
Also, should they take down the servers (steam being bought out, suffer bad PR leading to bankruptcy, etc) you again lose all games you've "bought".

So what do you really get?

You've got a point there. It did pave the way for the whole "games as a service" model we're plagued with today, whatever the original idea behind it was.

 

[Lufia Erim]

We have lost the battle and the war. Microtransaction/lootboxes are here to stay.

Why? Because we are old. We can bitche and whine as much as we want. And we have been doing so since Oblivions notorious " horse armor dlc" for anyone old enough to remember.

You see the thing is. The old guards are dwindling. We like to say things like " the average gamer is older" but in the same breath we acknowledge that " we are older now and have families and responsibilities and less time to buy and play games". Two very conflicted statements if you think about it.

I'd like to think that most of us here, can remember a time without Microtransactions, day on dlc, disc locked content, loot boxes. But what of the children? Our children? The future generation? They most certainly will not.

You see we look back at those times with fondness. When games came out as a full package. But them? The gamers of the future, all they will remember is a time of microtransaction, dlc and lootboxes. And to them, that will be the norm.

And guess what? When they reach our age in 15, 20, 25 years. They are going to look back at microtransaction and lootboxes with fondness and nostalgia, compared to whatever exploitative monetisation method the future will hold.

They will be in the exact position we are now. Thinking " back in my day we had lootboxes and we liked it". Because that is all they would have ever known. And they will get riled up for whatever new and worst way companies have found to nickle and dime gamers.

So, the battle has been lost, the war has been lost. At least we tried, but ultimately we failed. And the big companies know this. This is why the live services are coming into effect .

At this point, we are fighting a battle that has already been lost, pretending it has any kind of significant meaning. And the big names are more than glad to let us bask in that illusion of doing something, while they move on ahead while we run in circles like mice lost in a labyrinth.

So GG guys. It wad a valiant effort. I'll see you in another life, brother.

 

[Vendor-Lazarus]

We have lost the battle and the war. Microtransaction/lootboxes are here to stay.

Why? Because we are old. We can bitche and whine as much as we want. And we have been doing so since Oblivions notorious " horse armor dlc" for anyone old enough to remember.

You see the thing is. The old guards are dwindling. We like to say things like " the average gamer is older" but in the same breath we acknowledge that " we are older now and have families and responsibilities and less time to buy and play games". Two very conflicted statements if you think about it.

I'd like to think that most of us here, can remember a time without Microtransactions, day on dlc, disc locked content, loot boxes. But what of the children? Our children? The future generation? They most certainly will not.

You see we look back at those times with fondness. When games came out as a full package. But them? The gamers of the future, all they will remember is a time of microtransaction, dlc and lootboxes. And to them, that will be the norm.

And guess what? When they reach our age in 15, 20, 25 years. They are going to look back at microtransaction and lootboxes with fondness and nostalgia, compared to whatever exploitative monetisation method the future will hold.

They will be in the exact position we are now. Thinking " back in my day we had lootboxes and we liked it". Because that is all they would have ever known. And they will get riled up for whatever new and worst way companies have found to nickle and dime gamers.

So, the battle has been lost, the war has been lost. At least we tried, but ultimately we failed. And the big companies know this. This is why the live services are coming into effect .

At this point, we are fighting a battle that has already been lost, pretending it has any kind of significant meaning. And the big names are more than glad to let us bask in that illusion of doing something, while they move on ahead while we run in circles like mice lost in a labyrinth.

So GG guys. It wad a valiant effort. I'll see you in another life, brother.

I'll have to respectfully disagree about a tiny part of your otherwise excellent post.
The War isn't entirely lost, and never will be as long as quality indies and the likes of GOG exist.
Sure it's comparable to all of Europe being conquered, except for Monaco, but there must be a breaking point for people somewhere...right?...right!?

The most likely future I see with these kinds of changes that have been happening is streaming the experience directly from a DRM platform like steam or the developers/publishers own servers.
Either pay for a limited time or a one-time deal thing. Maybe some sort of pass for an entire season if they want to make it seem like a great sales deal for consumers.

*Edit*
PS. They have been moving more and more towards gearing games as movies as well, if I may direct some criticism towards current gameplay as well.
I saw Fine Brothers React To about '96 Tomb Raider vs '16 Tomb Raider and it couldn't make it any clearer. The entire '16 "gameplay" clip was just a rail-roaded, scripted, interactive movie with quick-time events. With added drama every 5 seconds to keep their attention. If the graphics wasn't enough.
The '96 one let you walk, jump and shoot whenever. In your own time.
Ok, done. Sorry! ,)